Track Arithmetic?

I am trying to get the snare and kick out of my high hats. Is it possible to do track arithmetic in any program? What i mean is, if I have a kick that is bleeding into the hats, can I take the kick, invert it, scale it by some value and add it to the hat track?

When I eq enough, it makes the hats sound bad. If I try sidechaining, I am killing the decay of the hat.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks

Get a calculator, pencils are too fiddly

space_cowboy, have you looked at the visual representation to give you an idea of the peaks ? I mean play the kick solo'd and the snare... as John said about EQ , it will do the trick and give you more room higher up frequency wise.

As for the side chain, I mainly use it to dip sub-bass when the Kick comes in to give it more punch. Have to be careful with that also, and get the balance right so it gives it more drive / presence, just not at the expense of other sounds your using.

The kick / snare are quite tight and punchy ? layering 2 is a trick I use BUT you have to be careful as they will overlap and eq cut is your friend to stop them clashing.

techniques forum has info on this, I'm sure..

edit : I just thought. Computer Music did a special about mic's very recently also about their placement etc. which might be a pretty good read. Maybe you can get it there? you could order it from the UK but dunno how much it would be exactly.

Actually I think you need to take a step backwards and get the tracking done right first. Better mic placement or type for a better off axis rejection. Maybe some gates set properly when tracking....? or later...?

bad tracking makes hard mixing which makes hard mastering... get it right at each step.

but...I've got a mixing thread started...what do I know?? !!

Sure many here know how loud drums are... and yeah you can EQ a kick out of a HH ok.... but when you start notching out a snare.... wadda ya gonna leave........ 5k and up for sizzle hats?

But I also agree, with close mic'ing...something is askew here with too much bleed on a HH mic.

ORIGINAL: mixmkr

Sure many here know how loud drums are... and yeah you can EQ a kick out of a HH ok.... but when you start notching out a snare.... wadda ya gonna leave........ 5k and up for sizzle hats?

But I also agree, with close mic'ing...something is askew here with too much bleed on a HH mic.

Well in the end this goes well with your other thread. Tracking is important and no two ways about it.

You lost me in the sarcasm somewhere along the line, because tracking IS important. But is see Space is moving actual note placement, so that is a problem.

ORIGINAL: John

ORIGINAL: mixmkr

Sure many here know how loud drums are... and yeah you can EQ a kick out of a HH ok.... but when you start notching out a snare.... wadda ya gonna leave........ 5k and up for sizzle hats?

But I also agree, with close mic'ing...something is askew here with too much bleed on a HH mic.

Well in the end this goes well with your other thread. Tracking is important and no two ways about it.

Yeah
None of this would have occured if the timing had not been off on the drummer here and there. The bleed issue is one I can deal with when the drumming is right. However, when there are places where the beats are off a bit in timing, and where you are using 8 mics on the drum kit, I do not believe there is a mic technique that would keep the hats from picking up the snare. After all, they are the closest of the two drums.

I tried to notch the snare out of the hats, but the hats had no body left. I can't use a gate without killing the hats similarly - frequency dependent or not.

Thanks though

If it's a timing issue, and you're feeling bold, you can use AudioSnap across multiple tracks. That will give you the least alteration of the sounds themselves. Can be labour-intensive though.

ORIGINAL: space_cowboy

Altima - why does someone need an eSoundz referral? I use them. I didn't know that I needed a referral.

they don't really, just might as well use it as you get something back. Same when you buy something, you get points or whatever.. I used his as a referral last time I bought my reason packs.hehe

it's a bit like loyalty points.. so might as well give em to someone.

edit : loopmasters do a similar thing also, but when you buy a pack off them you get "virtual cash" which you can either save up or use as a discount on the next thing you buy.

ORIGINAL: space_cowboy

...I do not believe there is a mic technique that would keep the hats from picking up the snare. After all, they are the closest of the two drums.

Actually there is. Place the mic facing down towards the top hat but pointing almost outside of the kit. The back of the mic should be pointing towards the general vicinity of the snare. Again, in most mixes I do, the HH mic gets ditched anyway. Is that not an option? HH is so unimortant to me that I usually mic it with a plain ol' 58. It's rejection should be much better than the ksm. I find it kinda hilarious when you say, "I tried to notch the snare out of the hats, but the hats had no body left." The HH is the last instrument I'd expect to hear "body". Unless you're recording jazz, it is just so unimportant. Kill the friggin HH mic and your problem should be solved.

I definitely would never recommend quantizing just the snare (or any single drum) by iteself. Drum editing needs to be done with all drum tracks together a la Beat Detective. I know you are using Sonar, but maybe check out some of the BD videos on you tube. You can apply the same method to Sonar, it will just take much longer.

ORIGINAL: space_cowboy

I am trying to get the snare and kick out of my high hats. Is it possible to do track arithmetic in any program? What i mean is, if I have a kick that is bleeding into the hats, can I take the kick, invert it, scale it by some value and add it to the hat track?

When I eq enough, it makes the hats sound bad. If I try sidechaining, I am killing the decay of the hat.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks

See if volume changes in one or more tracks help. If you can't do it with the Clip Gain envelope (small section) then a sidechained dynamics processor can't do it either. All it that would do is create an automatic gain control.

There are things you can do with each track but part of what makes real drums sound real is that there is bleed, if you take that away you may as well trigger samples with what you have.

ORIGINAL: Fog

ORIGINAL: space_cowboy
Altima - why does someone need an eSoundz referral? I use them. I didn't know that I needed a referral.

they don't really, just might as well use it as you get something back. Same when you buy something, you get points or whatever..

it's a bit like loyalty points.. so might as well give em to someone.

Yeah...it's shameless self promotion...basically you and the person you refer get up to 5% of your order (max $5) as ePointz that can be used for future purchases of downloadable products from eSoundz.

I used his as a referral last time I bought my reason packs.hehe

Thanks...I believe you're the only person who's used me as a referral since I made that my signature...

Yeah MM
That is essentially what I did. I generated markers for the hats using audio snap, then opened battery and found a hat multisample that sounded enough like the one I was replacing. Tried to randomize velocities enough to sound like the drummer and manually put in the hats, muted the original and off to the races.

I am looking at the earthworks mics for much greater directionality than my KM 184s. That could get rid of the bleed.

ORIGINAL: space_cowboy

I am looking at the earthworks mics for much greater directionality than my KM 184s. That could get rid of the bleed.

The mics you have are just fine. Just gotta use yer noggin when placing them. You can't solve this problem with more money unless you plan on buying a hyper-cardiod which IMO is not necessary. Of course, simply making the drummer work harder (god forbid) would alleviate this problem entirely. FYI, the Earthworks will give you similar results if your placement is bad. I'm not really sure why you think they would have less bleed since most of their mics are omnis. You would have even more bleed than you have now.

Sick with the flu, if you're wondering why I'm awake at 6AM.