Track types for large orchestra layout

Author
Post
Essentials Only Full Version
jjim1
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 19
  • Joined: 2009/01/19 08:13:13
  • Status: offline
2013/03/28 10:14:56 (permalink)

Track types for large orchestra layout

  I'm working with about 60 orchestral instruments per project, using vienna ens. pro soft synths connecting with VEP on slave computer with 16 instruments per soft synth. What is the best type of track to use in SONAR for each instrument, audio and soft synth?
#1

18 Replies Related Threads
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 16775
    • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
    • Location: Bristol, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/03/28 10:41:31 (permalink)
    I run EWQLSO via 5 instances of EW's Play engine.

    1 = Strings
    2 = Brass
    3 = Woods
    4/5 = Percussion

    Each nominal 'track' has 3 tracks in Sonar

    1 = Audio Track
    2 = Normal Midi track for note events & controllers
    3 = Drum Map for all keyswitched articulations

    This adds up to about 135 tracks once all artics are loaded

    These are then grouped, by folder

    1 = Strings Audio
    2 = Strings Midi
    3 = Strings KS
    4 = Brass Audio
    5 = Brass Midi
    6 = Brass KS
    7 = Woods Audio
    8 = Woods Midi
    9 = Woods KS
    10 = Percussion Audio
    11 = Percussion Midi

    There are no Ks artics for any of the percussion modules, each one has it's notes (where applicable) just mapped across the keybaord

    Hope this helps

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
    Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
    #2
    vintagevibe
    Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2446
    • Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
    • Location: Atlanta, Ga
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/03/28 11:37:13 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey


    I run EWQLSO via 5 instances of EW's Play engine.

    1 = Strings
    2 = Brass
    3 = Woods
    4/5 = Percussion

    Each nominal 'track' has 3 tracks in Sonar

    1 = Audio Track
    2 = Normal Midi track for note events & controllers
    3 = Drum Map for all keyswitched articulations

    This adds up to about 135 tracks once all artics are loaded

    These are then grouped, by folder

    1 = Strings Audio
    2 = Strings Midi
    3 = Strings KS
    4 = Brass Audio
    5 = Brass Midi
    6 = Brass KS
    7 = Woods Audio
    8 = Woods Midi
    9 = Woods KS
    10 = Percussion Audio
    11 = Percussion Midi

    There are no Ks artics for any of the percussion modules, each one has it's notes (where applicable) just mapped across the keybaord

    Hope this helps
    That's pretty much how I run EWQLSO.  The drum maps are really helpful.



    #3
    bentleyousley
    Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 279
    • Joined: 2004/12/24 15:19:40
    • Location: Kansas City
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/03/28 13:05:46 (permalink)
    jjim1


      I'm working with about 60 orchestral instruments per project, using vienna ens. pro soft synths connecting with VEP on slave computer with 16 instruments per soft synth. What is the best type of track to use in SONAR for each instrument, audio and soft synth?

    If you are using VEP 5, you aren't limited to 16 midi channels per instance of VEP. The Event Input plugin allows you to have up to 48 midi ports (X 16 midi channels!) per instance.







    Once and Future Cities: A Fractal Journey https://youtu.be/j6JkKmh4wXY
    #4
    jjim1
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 19
    • Joined: 2009/01/19 08:13:13
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/03/28 13:14:40 (permalink)
    Thank you very much both bentleyously and vintagevibe. This information is exactly what I've been needing. Right now I'm running VEP 4 but will move to VEP 5 as soon as my new computer gets built. I've been getting by with my crude setup. However, I'll start a switchover today. I do orchestral and concert band renditions of various published compositions. jjim1
    #5
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 16775
    • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
    • Location: Bristol, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/03/28 13:18:05 (permalink)
    That's quite alright, you're welcome

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
    Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
    #6
    jac
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 48
    • Joined: 2010/02/17 21:55:28
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/04/03 16:27:42 (permalink)
    I'd like to ask the folks who weighed in on this for a little more info.

    I like the idea of a separate midi KS track (shoulda thought of that one myself - duh!). I'm curious about the drum map references though. I haven't looked into setting up drum maps myself, they usually just work when I use a drum synth like SD3. Do those of you who use them in this context have some maps set up with articulation names? If so, do you set them up yourselves or are there templates available for that (could be a lot of work, if not) - or possible some secret for creating them quickly.

    I use EW Symphonic Orchestra (gold) and Symphonic Choirs as well as Garritan libraries (GPO, JABB, and IO).

    Any additional info would be appreciated!

    Sonar X2 Producer - 64 bit (various plugins/soft synths)
    Windows 7, Home Premium
    Intel Core i7-920, 2.67GHz (4 cores, 8 virtual), 24 Gig RAM
    Separate system/sample/project disk drives
    Dual monitor
    Echo Layla 3G
    Edirol PCR-300
    #7
    jsg
    Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1079
    • Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
    • Location: San Francisco, California
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/04/03 16:48:08 (permalink)
    It all depends on what kind of libraries you're running, how much memory you have and how you divide up your orchestra.
     
    I run VSL orchestral cube on a separate computer, so in a typical template I use the following tracks in my symphony #8:
     
    1.  piccolo
    2.  flutes (for solo flutes or 2-3 flutes playing different parts)
    3.  3 flutes (samples are three flutes in unison)
    4.  oboes
    5.  3 oboes (ditto flutes)
    6.  Eng horn
    7. clarinets
    8.  3 clarinets (ditto flutes)
    9.  bass clarinet
    10.  bassoons
    11.  3 bassoons  (ditto flutes)
     
    12.  2 horns
    13.  2 horns
    14.  4 horns (for unison)
    15.  trpt 1
    16.  trpt 2
    17. trpt 3
    18.  3 trpts, unison
    19.  tromb1
    20.  tromb2
    21.  tromb3
    22.  3 trombones (unison)
    23.  tuba
     
    24.  timpani
    25.  cymbals/gong
    26.  snare
    27.  tambourine
    28.  harp
     
    29.  vln 1
    30.  vln 2
    31.  vlas
    32.  cellos
    33.  double basses
     
    You can hear what I consider my best symphony to date here:
    www.jerrygerber.com/symph8.htm
     
    Also, for those of you in the San Francisco Bay Area, you might want to take a look at the new workshop I am presenting at the San Francisco New Music Center in May: 
    www.jerrygerber.com/beyondthemidimockup.htm
     
    Best,
     
    Jerry
    post edited by jsg - 2013/04/04 22:25:27
    #8
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 16775
    • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
    • Location: Bristol, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/04/04 05:28:21 (permalink)
    jac


    I'd like to ask the folks who weighed in on this for a little more info.

    I like the idea of a separate midi KS track (shoulda thought of that one myself - duh!). I'm curious about the drum map references though. I haven't looked into setting up drum maps myself, they usually just work when I use a drum synth like SD3. Do those of you who use them in this context have some maps set up with articulation names? If so, do you set them up yourselves or are there templates available for that (could be a lot of work, if not) - or possible some secret for creating them quickly.

    I use EW Symphonic Orchestra (gold) and Symphonic Choirs as well as Garritan libraries (GPO, JABB, and IO).

    Any additional info would be appreciated!

    I created all (39?) drum maps individually from scratch. It took about 3 nights but it's something I will never have to do again, other than maybe creating new ones should the need arise.


    There is a thread of mine somewhere detailing exactly how I did it, but I'm damned if i can find it, you're welcome to search for it yourself

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
    Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
    #9
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 16775
    • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
    • Location: Bristol, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/04/04 05:33:36 (permalink)
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=2541513&mpage=1#2550531

    Post #8

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
    Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
    #10
    dlion16
    Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 391
    • Joined: 2007/03/08 15:21:55
    • Location: East Quogue, NY
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/04/04 09:40:56 (permalink)
    beautiful work, jerry!

    SONAR Platinum Lifetime 64-bit; Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 2nd Gen.; KRK Rokit 5; ASUS P9X79; INTEL I7-3820 3.6 GHZ;
    850 WATT POWER SUPPLY; EVGA NVIDIA GTX560 TI 1GB;
    Windows 10 Home 64-bit; 32GB RAM;
    2 Internal SSD Drives, 3 External USB drives.
    #11
    jac
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 48
    • Joined: 2010/02/17 21:55:28
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/04/04 20:57:48 (permalink)
    Thanks Jonesey! I'll take a look when I get some time!

    Sonar X2 Producer - 64 bit (various plugins/soft synths)
    Windows 7, Home Premium
    Intel Core i7-920, 2.67GHz (4 cores, 8 virtual), 24 Gig RAM
    Separate system/sample/project disk drives
    Dual monitor
    Echo Layla 3G
    Edirol PCR-300
    #12
    jsg
    Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1079
    • Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
    • Location: San Francisco, California
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/04/04 22:29:46 (permalink)
    jac


    I'd like to ask the folks who weighed in on this for a little more info.

    I like the idea of a separate midi KS track (shoulda thought of that one myself - duh!). I'm curious about the drum map references though. I haven't looked into setting up drum maps myself, they usually just work when I use a drum synth like SD3. Do those of you who use them in this context have some maps set up with articulation names? If so, do you set them up yourselves or are there templates available for that (could be a lot of work, if not) - or possible some secret for creating them quickly.

    I use EW Symphonic Orchestra (gold) and Symphonic Choirs as well as Garritan libraries (GPO, JABB, and IO).

    Any additional info would be appreciated!

    Using a separate keyswitch track is the only way to go when doing studio work because otherwise your KS "notes" will show up in the staff view and the event list which you definitely don't want, as it will create confusion.  Just be sure to label your KS track in such a way that you know at a glance what track it is linked to.   
     
    Check out my above post for the actual template I used for this piece:
    www.jerrygerber.com/symph8.htm
     
    JG
    post edited by jsg - 2013/04/04 22:39:50
    #13
    jsg
    Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1079
    • Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
    • Location: San Francisco, California
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/04/04 22:38:39 (permalink)
    dlion16


    beautiful work, jerry!


    Thanks!
    #14
    jjim1
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 19
    • Joined: 2009/01/19 08:13:13
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/04/28 13:44:34 (permalink)
    Do you mean that each instrument samples, such as 1st Violin would have an audio track, a normal midi track and a drum map for keystrokes? jjim1  
    #15
    jjim1
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 19
    • Joined: 2009/01/19 08:13:13
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/04/28 13:45:38 (permalink)
    Do you mean that each instrument samples, such as 1st Violin would have an audio track, a normal midi track and a drum map for keystrokes? jjim1  
    #16
    jjim1
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 19
    • Joined: 2009/01/19 08:13:13
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/04/28 14:05:49 (permalink)
      Do you mean that each instrument samples, such as 1st Violin would have an audio track, a normal midi track and a drum map for keystrokes? jjim1
    #17
    konradh
    Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3325
    • Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/04/28 14:55:09 (permalink)
    I use Vienna Symphonic SE and SE+, VSL Dimension Strings, Hollywood Strings, and some external synths. I typically have a strings folder with separate instances for each section (1st, 2nd, Violas, Celli, Basses), and Woodwind folder, a Brass folder, etc. For piano, I go to Ivory II Grands. Although it is complicated, with Hollywood/EastWest they tell me an 8-core CPU runs more efficiently with separate instances. I have had no memory or CPU issues with standard VSL. Dimension strings requires a little more horsepower, and Hollywood is very taxing on the system.

    Konrad
    Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

    Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
    #18
    ltb
    Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2707
    • Joined: 2005/06/19 13:34:08
    • Status: offline
    Re:Track types for large orchestra layout 2013/04/28 15:54:10 (permalink)

    For myself there's better performance overall with less dropouts keeping my Orch.outside of X2.

    I'll use one large instance of VEP5Pro x64 & as my project template or metaframe. 
    I typically use 8 VEP midi event input instances per project ( 8 folders/ 16 midi channels per) using the default 32 ins + 32 outs in X2 bussed to my main orch out. I'll eq instruments per channel using VEP's mixer & run MIR or orch verb outside of X2.

    I use other VSTi's inside X2 (asst. Kontakt synth.- drums libs, gtr sims) or I'll add another instance of VEP5 to the server that are project specific. 
    There's some drawbacks to the workflow but I prefer using VEP5 this way rather than  re-starting X2's transport over & over because of dropouts.

    Speaking of gapless.....

    #19
    Jump to:
    © 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1