Tracking and/or Mixing on Nearfields?

Hi, guys, I'm looking for some general input and advice on something that recently started to affect my workflow.
 
The basic question is, do most of you track and mix on the same speakers, or, do you usually track on large speakers and then switch to nearfield monitors to mix?
 
My situation is that for over a year and a half, I've been both tracking and mixing on large speakers, and last week I picked up a pair of decent nearfield reference monitors to hopefully help improve my mixing.
 
I mostly do heavy guitar hard rock and I've become used to the deep bass punch of the large speakers while I'm tracking.  Clarity wise, the new small monitors sound amazing and the instrument definition and separation is much better for picking up problems in the mix.  I'm actually hearing stuff in my mixes that I couldn't even hear before, so I know that I'm going to be doing a ton of re-mixing over the next few weeks!
 
The problem is, when I'm tracking with the nearfields, instead of my guitar sounding like a Marshall or Mesa Boogie, I feel like I'm playing through a mid-rangy transistor radio.  So, I've been trying to switch back and forth, which seems to really be starting to confuse my ears.  Now, when I'm on the big speakers, they sound like a mud soaked wool blanket, and when I switch back to the small monitors after tracking, although I can hear every instrument and every little detail very clearly, my ears seem to hear mainly dead flat midrange.
 
Do you think it's just a matter of my ears adjusting to the switching back and forth, or am I just better off sticking to one set or the other?  I'm very interested to hear how you guys do it!
 
Thanks in advance for your input or suggestions!
Bob

Unless your main monitors are not much cop, what you have described so far is a bad monitoring environment. Bass traps and other room treatment may be required. This is critical if you are using lage "room" monitors! Room problems will not be so evident through the nearfields as they are closer to your ears.

It's largely a matter of preference how you use multiple monitors, but in general you are using them for comparison, and should end up with a mix that sounds right on both. You should be able to "trust" both sets of monitors, and the listening environment too.

Near fields, as the name implies, are supposed to be close to you (and closer to your ears than the walls behind them) and aren't for loud listening.  You get close so that the room reflections and other imperfections are negated.  Ideally, they are like super headphones.  In home setups, they often get used like mains or general listening speakers.  NF are best at finding a mix balance, esp. in the midrange, and in the studio we listen to those a lot during mixing (less on tracking, or at least setting up for it).

Mains, in comparison, sound 'fuller" because of bass extention - and are ususally listened to louder.  It is not surprising that you are missing something from your guitar in the nearfields.  You shouldn't be worried about the thinness, just if they clash w/ the vocals, esp. (tho you should be worried about your environment as said above if you are using your NF as general listening speakers).

If I was you, I'd keep and mix on the NF and get a second "home listening speakers" to check the bass/real world sound.  And burn a cd and listen to it in the car, living room, etc.  That is the quickest, cheapest way to get a better idea of how your mix translates.  Then room treatment, then mains. 

And remember, the studio ain't for listening pleasure so much as finding problems early.  If you want your guitars in all their sonic splendour, mix them well but listen on a larger system.

@

Once your mix is done on quality nearfields and you put it up on the big mains it SHOULD sound different. That's the point. But it shouldn't sound BAD. I assume you bought some nice monitors because you weren't happy with your mixes through your original speakers. My advice would be to shut off the big speakers completely for a while. Mix only on the nearfields. Check those mixes in other rooms on other systems...in your car. THEN decide if your mixes are better or worse than they were before. I do track and mix through the same speakers. Personally, I don't like to switch back and forth from one set of speakers to another while I'm mixing. If I can't trust the speakers I'm mixing with....then really....what's the point? The only thing that I do switch off and on occasionally is a sub. And that's usually only right at the end of a mix....when I switch it on I can tell immediately if there are rogue sub frequencies sneaking through.

   what skullsession  says here are also my thoughts on
the subject. He said it well so I"ll try and add my thoughts
as to the type of speakers. If these large speakers are
a more PA type speaker then to me that spells trouble.
If they are a more consumer type then maybe its
(somewhat) better. Pa speakers have "stiffer" cones
consumer speakers have softer cones. By that I mean
the excursion or how freely the cone moves.

  That gets into a whole new subject matter of which
is way too much to get into here. I have heard your
stuff and it sounds very "scooped". Although that may
be the sound you want it to me sounds synthetic.
These large speakers (may) be lying to you. Other
people say that your mixes sound great so it isn't for
me to say that they aren't because it's a matter of
what "you" want.

  I've gone through lots of adjusting to new mixing
environments when trying to upgrade and or improve
in that area and most often the new environment
IE monitors and such seemed very awkward or even
of lesser quality. But it was always because I was
hearing the mix from a better/ more accurate
environment. 

  I would say to stick with only the nearfields long
enough to get the feel. (not even referencing the
larger speakers for a while). Do a remix of a song.
post it in the songs forum or somewhere (of your
choice) and see what the A/B is between the older
and new mix is.

  When I got my first set of decent quality nearfields
it changed everything. I was in fact starting all over
as a mix engineer. I had so much to re think and learn.
And then when I found a better set of nearfields
it happened again.

  Don't forget to set them up in a triangle. I have a
preference (my own that is). the distance between
the center of the speaker should be the same as 
one speaker to your ears. set the speakers up right
vertically not horizontal.  the ear level should be
between the tweeter and the woofer. (in Height).
point each speaker directly at you.

  Even small differences/changes in these things
can sometimes change the sound by such a large
amount. I'll close in saying this is just my way
or what I've learned.
 

As I said earlier....I'm assuming he bought new nearfields because he wasn't happy with the mixes he was doing on the "big" speakers. 

If that is the case, then he needs to turn off the big speakers.  He can't trust them.

If he WAS happy, then I don't understand the reason for the purchase of the new monitors.

It's hard to advise without knowing your setup, what kind of room you have, what kind of speakers you had before, what you're using now, and what you were unhappy enough with to fork out the bucks for new ones.

So I went to SoundClick and listened to some of your stuff.

The mixes have good separation and nice stereo imaging. Vocals come through clearly. Compression levels are appropriate for the genre. I'd call them good mixes.

Where they fall short is EQ. Granted, a 128kb/s bitstream isn't a very good basis for judging EQ (if you want to send me a high bitrate file for analysis, I'd be glad to look closely at it), but there appear to be issues exactly like one would normally experience with a non-linear listening environment.

For starters, I'm hearing very little low bass - it could be that your big speakers are too bass-heavy. At the same time, there is a pronounced bump around 150Hz (guessing by ear) that might be an artifact of a resonant null in your room. There is a harsh rise around 3-4KHz that could be the result of your monitors' tweeters being light in that region (might it be a 3-way speaker system with a crossover frequency around 3KHz maybe?).

Given these problems, and assuming they are caused by your monitoring environment, I'd suggest doing most of your work on the nearfields and going to the big speakers toward the end of the project as a double-check. Unless the nearfields are particularly weak in the low end, you should get better results. And if you haven't addressed acoustics yet, maybe that should take priority over speakers anyway.

(Of course, I could also be way off track and reading too much into your EQ choices. For all I know they could be deliberate and I am merely succumbing to my own prejudices. Just tryin' to help, Bob.)

Oh, and nice tunes, BTW.

Hi, guys,

First off, I really want to thank everybody for their opinions and suggestions, I truly appreciate all of you taking your valuable time to evaluate the situation and offer advice.  The quality of the people on this forum and the willingness to help out always amazes me.
 
Yeah, I think a lot of it is actually a matter of the stark "contrast" of switching between small nearfields and the characteristics of the large speakers which I've tried hard to "learn" and become accustomed to for over a year and a half.  Although I normally mix at a slightly above conversational level, the switching back and forth is kind of like eating dinner in a small restaurant with quiet background music, and then walking next door to a large rock club with a live band blaring through a full PA system, and then five minutes later, walking back to the restaurant, and then back again to the night club.

I'm going to try Hook's advice, which was also echoed by AT, Jimmy and Bitflipper.  I'm going to shut off the big speakers for at least a week, and strictly work with the nearfields.  I think that when my ears get adjusted to them and I get used to the difference, it'll definitely improve my mixing.

Bitflipper, just for the record, as usual, you hit the nail EXACTLY on the head.  Wow, Bit, what an accurate set of ears you've got!  Just from those crappy 128bit MP3s on SoundClick, you pinpointed the exact, actual reasons why I bought the new monitors in the first place.  You pegged the characteristics and flaws of the large speakers right on the money.  The big ones are a set of better quality consumer 3-ways with bass hyped 10" woofers, lacking much high end, being used in an untreated 14' x 12' room.  After some precise comments in the Songs forum about EQing some things I couldn't quite hear as described,  I figured it was time to find out what else was being masked by the speakers I was using.  Fortunately for me, the new monitors are giving me a MUCH clearer picture of the overall mix and I'm already remixing and making quite a few EQ adjustments.
 
Maybe when I get a remix or two done on the new monitors, I can post some before and after, higher quality MP3s to my personal website for A/B comparison.
 
Sincere thanks again, to everybody!
Bob