Helpful ReplyTracking vocals; to compress or not to compress?

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konradh
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Re:Tracking vocals; to compress or not to compress? 2013/01/14 11:30:35 (permalink)
HELLYA, If you magnify this picture, you will see switches on the mic.  The one on the bottom is a pad (0, -5, -10).  This is somewhat common on condenser mics.  I used Rode NT2A as an example because it is a really good mic for the money--as good as most that cost 5x more.

http://www.sweetwater.com/images/items/1800/NT2AStuBun-xlarge.jpg

Studios also often have in-line pads, but I have never seen them in a project studio.  An inline pad is a small cylindrical thing.  You plug the mic cable into one end and the cable going to the board/interface/console into the other.  I wouldn't worry about that: it wouldn't be common for most project studios.

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#31
Anderton
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Re:Tracking vocals; to compress or not to compress? 2013/01/14 22:33:07 (permalink)
Bristol_Jonesey
 

Input gain MUST be set before the signal hits your AD converter - once it clips there, there's no way to reverse it one you've recorded it

Excellent advice, to which I would add some people who have interfaces with DSP think that by enabling compression or limiting, they'll prevent overloading the converters. But, 99.999% of the time this is DSP that works on the post-converter signals. If you want to make sure overs don't happen, you need to add something before the signal hits the interface input. 

One exception is that some devices have a "soft clipping" option which is built into the analog mic pre, and therefore prior to conversion. This can be very handy for keeping nasty peaks from entering the signal chain, and the distortion is so fleeting it likely won't be noticed.

Also, I do realize that "tell them to use better mic technique" is along the same lines as "write a better chorus" . But, when producing, I've often found that some people simply haven't thought about mic technique as a way to maintain consistent levels, and as soon as I point it out to them, they "get" it and it makes a big difference. k. d. Lang has fantastic mic technique - she plays a hand-held mic like a slide trombone. Find any videos of her singing live, and show it to the problematic singer. Once they see what the deal it, they'll understand.



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Paul P
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Re:Tracking vocals; to compress or not to compress? 2013/01/14 23:48:39 (permalink)
Anderton

k. d. Lang has fantastic mic technique - she plays a hand-held mic like a slide trombone. Find any videos of her singing live, and show it to the problematic singer. Once they see what the deal it, they'll understand.

Thank you very much for this tip.  I took a look at a k.d. Lang video and am amazed.  At 1:30 in the video is a good example of the trombone thing.  I have to show this to my daughter tomorrow.  She's a beginner pop singer and this is like an extra effect she can do while singing.
 
#33
The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Tracking vocals; to compress or not to compress? 2013/01/15 09:01:30 (permalink)
Anderton


Bristol_Jonesey


Input gain MUST be set before the signal hits your AD converter - once it clips there, there's no way to reverse it one you've recorded it

Excellent advice, to which I would add some people who have interfaces with DSP think that by enabling compression or limiting, they'll prevent overloading the converters. But, 99.999% of the time this is DSP that works on the post-converter signals. If you want to make sure overs don't happen, you need to add something before the signal hits the interface input. 

One exception is that some devices have a "soft clipping" option which is built into the analog mic pre, and therefore prior to conversion. This can be very handy for keeping nasty peaks from entering the signal chain, and the distortion is so fleeting it likely won't be noticed.

Also, I do realize that "tell them to use better mic technique" is along the same lines as "write a better chorus" . But, when producing, I've often found that some people simply haven't thought about mic technique as a way to maintain consistent levels, and as soon as I point it out to them, they "get" it and it makes a big difference. k. d. Lang has fantastic mic technique - she plays a hand-held mic like a slide trombone. Find any videos of her singing live, and show it to the problematic singer. Once they see what the deal it, they'll understand.







Back when you and I were kids we'd hear, and see, people actually use mic technique at live performance and on TV shows.


A 30 year legacy of lip synced MTV style video presentations hasn't modeled mic technique effectively to the people who have relied on music video as a primary source of musical inspiration.




The practice of watching one thing while listening to another thing undermines the sort of implicit understanding that anyone observing someone actually singing will recognize immediately.




I tend to agree. It seems to me that any "singer" who has ever observed another singer work a mic with good technique would get it instantly.


best regards,
mike






post edited by mike_mccue - 2013/01/15 10:22:43


#34
SGodfrey
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Re:Tracking vocals; to compress or not to compress? 2013/01/15 09:14:19 (permalink)
Very interesting watching the video Paul P.

Presumably, she's using her ears to monitor the level she's getting back from the speakers and changing the distance to the microphone accordingly.  So she's preventing any overloading on the one hand but also creatively setting the level she, as an advanced singer, wants.

Is that right?

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#35
LunaTech
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Re:Tracking vocals; to compress or not to compress? 2013/01/15 09:39:40 (permalink)
Anderton,
 
Thanks so much for the link to the video.  This clearly shows how a seasoned artist with technique can invoke depth, emotion and spatial content to a vocal performance.  Technology and hardware can only hope to enhance what is already there naturally.  I will be adding this to my visual aids for my clients.   

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#36
AT
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Re:Tracking vocals; to compress or not to compress? 2013/01/15 12:35:02 (permalink)
Most singers get this when shown.  As pointed out above, it is fairly natural when the singer can hear the changes in the monitors or cans.

Caveat, too much trombone slide can change the timbre in the studio.  That is when a good preamp w/ plenty of gain makes the difference.  You can back the singer off the mic so head (and neck and whole darn body) movements don't change the tone as much, besides giving a natural compression to the voice since distance to the mic changes the volume geometrically, not proportionally.  Of course, this means you get more room tone, too.  Many, if not most pro studios, have the singer/mic distance at feet, rather inches, which works in a well-treated room.

@
post edited by AT - 2013/01/15 17:06:41

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#37
Paul P
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Re:Tracking vocals; to compress or not to compress? 2013/01/15 13:48:08 (permalink)
I really like the ability to go from "off in the distance" to "right up close", or even sweep between the two. In which case the change of timbre is a plus.

But as you point out, you need a well treated room.
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konradh
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Re:Tracking vocals; to compress or not to compress? 2013/01/15 14:44:14 (permalink)
I appreciate it when the singer moves in and out a little bit to account for extreme changes, but I really don't want a singer working the mic like a lounge singer:

1-A lounge singer overdoes it because there is no further control once the sound is out and gone.  I would rather have some options on the dynamics later.
2-What sounds loud live and what pegs the meter ina studio are not always the same.
3-A little bit of that mic working is for show.

So, working the mic=good.  Going nuts with it=bad.

I have no dynamics when I sing, so it's easy.

Konrad
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#39
Anderton
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Re:Tracking vocals; to compress or not to compress? 2013/01/15 16:18:07 (permalink)
LunaTech


Anderton,
 
Thanks so much for the link to the video.  This clearly shows how a seasoned artist with technique can invoke depth, emotion and spatial content to a vocal performance.  Technology and hardware can only hope to enhance what is already there naturally.  I will be adding this to my visual aids for my clients.   

Just for the record - it was Paul P who gave the link, and he chose a really good one. I checked it out and it shows exactly what I was talking about...and DAMN, she is one helluva remarkable singer.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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LunaTech
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Re:Tracking vocals; to compress or not to compress? 2013/01/15 18:36:57 (permalink)
Anderton,
 
Thanks for pointing out my oversight.  Paul P did indeed provide that great link.  My apologies to Paul.
Konradh you are also correct.  Live Stage exaggeration usually will not translate well in the studio although it is very entertaining to watch when done well.
 
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