Tragedy

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Starise
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2014/01/26 23:27:37 (permalink)

Tragedy

One I recently semi finished. Probably need to make a few more changes to it. Open to any ideas.
The mix seemed decent from my end. Would be interested to hear how it sounds at your end.
 
Thanks and have a good one.
 
https://soundcloud.com/starise/tragedy

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#1

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    rebel007
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/01/27 02:43:53 (permalink)
    I think I like the song Starise, but I'm getting a lot of distortion on the mix, especially on the drums and keys. Very hard to make an informed critique.

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    speedtom
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/01/27 03:17:51 (permalink)
    I agree with rebel, the drums are distorted and the voice is buried in the mix, I guess you need to work on this.

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    jamesg1213
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/01/27 06:44:57 (permalink)
    Sounds like it could be a good song Tim, but the mix is coming across very hissy in the top end and quite distorted.

     
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    #4
    theguitarplayer
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/01/27 12:09:24 (permalink)
    Back of on the limiting and compression and this will sound better. Nice song after a little work. Had to understand the vocals in places, especially over the piano. Nice song though.
     
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    #5
    ralphwiggum
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/01/27 12:18:03 (permalink)
    I think it's got great potential as a song but the mix is rough and that makes it hard to listen to.  It's mixed extremely loudly and everything seems separated.  Are you mixing through cans or monitors?  Rather than use effects/compression/etc. on each track try putting the effects on the master bus and use them sparingly.  It will make for a more unified sound.
     
    But I like the song.  It's good.
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    Starise
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/01/27 13:41:06 (permalink)
    I really appreciate the comments and listens rebel,speedtom,James,John and Ralph .
     
    There seems to be a good consensus. Not like one or two saying one thing and a few saying another. I  used cans for a lot of the mix working during some off peak hours and all. I compared to a few monitor listens and I seemed to struggle with keeping the piano and drums powerful and still work the mix right. From your comments here I think I'll pull everything down and basically start over.
     
    As usual after I listened more I think I should have waited to post.
     
    I found a few misaligned drum hits and a few that shouldn't be there at all. The arrangement itself bothers me.There seem to be some small timing glitches . I am thinking I might repeat the break at the end. 
     
    The bass should have dropped out in a few places.
     
    I hate my vocals in places.
     
    I used a plug to detect clipping and I tried to find a happy medium between compression and dynamics. I thought I was close but I wasn't....back to the drawing board. Thanks for the insight from you're end.
     
    I'll be back with another mix.

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    #7
    ralphwiggum
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/01/27 17:00:32 (permalink)
    Y'know what's cool?  I happen to think you have a really good song on your hands.  Now you need to mix it.  It'll be cool to see what you can do!
    #8
    bapu
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/01/28 11:45:10 (permalink)
    Tim,
     
    Sounds a little too compressed to the near point of distortion.
     
    FWIW I'm listening on Senneheiser HD650 cans.
     
    #9
    bapu
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/01/28 11:46:38 (permalink)
    Drums sound like they are in another room (to me).
     
    Although the piano is the central instrument I think it's a bit too strong. It's crowding the vocals. 
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    Starise
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/01/29 12:11:00 (permalink)
    Thanks for the vote of confidence Ralph!
     
    Bapu- Thanks man. I value your comments. Just that one comment has to be worth at least a t-shirt or two ;)...seriously thanks.
     
    Some mixes come easy. I had to fight this one tooth and nail. I used Studio Drummer this time instead of BFD2 and it seemed to be a little tougher to make sound the way I wanted. Probably because I'm more accustomed to using BFD2. The original drums ended up being over compressed so I remixed the drums completely and made a lot of midi changes in the drum parts. I re arranged some of the song itself. I changed the plate reverbs and ducked the bass. I wanted the feel of the song to be present yet still have a dreamy feel to it. I hope I ended up somewhere in the middle. I removed the vocal harmony line I sang and added a synth choir instead. I had an IK SVX bass plug-in on my bass part and decided to simply adjust the bass with my channel strip and EQ. 
     
    I dropped everything on my first gain stages a few db. and reduced all compression. I did pump it up some in the mastering stage so it will still be a hot mix in terms of loudness I think,hopefully not too hot. It sounds best on a better system. I tested the mix on lappys and small cans and It doesn't quite deliver the same but seems to hold up fairly well although looses some of the bass.
     
    https://soundcloud.com/starise/tragedy
    post edited by Starise - 2014/01/30 08:21:01

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    #11
    Westside Steve
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/01/30 08:19:42 (permalink)
    a fine tune but you need to bring the vox up. WSS
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    Starise
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/01/30 10:54:24 (permalink)
    Steve- Thanks for your input. I'll look into raising it some.
     
    I noticed two other things and I wondered if they jumped out at anyone else.
     
    The bass although in the right range seems muddy. I have worked with  EQ and it still seems to have less sheen than I wanted. I'm open to any suggestions on how I could make the bass powerful yet clear and defined. It might be a slight clash with the Rhodes.
     
    The vocals come in a few milliseconds after the intro . Is this noticable? Would you change it? If so How? I haven't used the stretch functions in Sonar to any large degree. I noticed it and it bothers me.
     
     
     
     

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    #13
    brundlefly
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/01/30 13:02:36 (permalink)
    Tim, I think you have a good foundation here, starting with the vocal performance; you have a great voice. Some mix and timing tweaks should really help bring it together. I'm no mixologist, myself, but this is what I'm hearing:
     
    - The bass, kick and snare all need to come up, and the piano and cymbals (especially) need to come down.
    - The kick might need some fattening - hard to say until the level is up.
    - The piano rhythm might be stepping on the bass and kick and need to be syncopated a little to make room. 
    - The vocal could also come forward a bit.
    - The cymbal timing is a little shaky, exacerbated by being so prominent in the mix.
    - I think the issue with the timing of the first verse is that "Really" starts on the second beat (as it should), but there's no strong hit on the downbeat before it from any of the instruments to establish the start of the bar. Based on what comes before an after, I'd expect to hear a strong piano chord there.
     
    - Also, there's some meter weirdness between :53 and 1:02, starting with an early piano hit on the last 8th of the bar that should have been the downbeat of the next bar, and everything after that being early for a couple bars as a result. You might want to count through the whole thing, and see if that happens anywhere else. The phrasing of the lyric might need some adjustments in places.
     
    Hope that helps. Good stuff. 
     

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    Starise
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/01/31 10:55:22 (permalink)
    Brundlefly- thank you for your very detailed analysis of the mix. I'll follow up on your suggestions and be back with something else later based on your comments.

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    #15
    Starise
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/02/06 09:11:08 (permalink)
     
    Thanks again guys.
     
    I re recorded the vocals on this.Went to a different microphone. Sidechained some of the stronger instruments to compression mildly during vocal parts and changed a lot of levels.I also improved some of the timing.
     
    Hope this is slightly better.
     
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    Walt Collins
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/02/06 10:30:15 (permalink)
    Nice job Tim.  I listened to this last week and wasn't sure how to reply, then got busy and didn't reply.  I think this new mix is much cleaner.  I like this one. :)
     
    A couple of suggestions, if you're interested... your vocals are excellent (as usual), and could come up a bit in the mix.  The main piano rhythm seems a bit too hot and could probably come down some.  Also, the drum fills in the 2nd half of the song seem to have some slight rhythmic issues here and there, so could use a bit more editing.  Just my $0.02!

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    daryl1968
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/02/06 10:59:42 (permalink)
    great message Tim. Vocals are believable and well sung. Nice one mate
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    AT
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/02/06 11:43:34 (permalink)
    I didn't listen to the earlier version - this one is pretty good.  Great song and I love the words you find to rhyme.  Not the usual suspects.  I think the piano part (which is great) needs to be ducked  via automation.  It still covers the vocals at times and seems louder than the vocals.  A very subtle thing, but makes it more difficult to understand the lyrics when that happens.  Also, the piano seems bunched in the middle of the soundscape, where the vocals should be.  If it were my song (I wish) I'd try the channel tools to spread the piano a little.  And automate the volumes, esp when piano slides into the vocals, and visa versa.  I think getting that perfect would clear up any other soundscape issues. 
     
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    olemon
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/03/01 10:15:32 (permalink)
    +1 on the good stuff.  Piano is still too hot imho.  Everything behind the piano sounds more balanced.

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    Ruben
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/03/01 12:23:18 (permalink)
    I haven't listened to earlier versions of this song so I'm just listening fresh to the mix.
     
    I think the song has potential and your voice sounds good, but it seems to me that tweaking the musical arrangement might help you mix it. To me, the drums and piano seem to fight each other at times - if the drum parts are too busy they get in the way of the piano's syncopated part, and likewise playing a milder piano part during the vocals could also help.
     
    In the mix I heard, I think the kick could be pulled back a bit, the piano could also be pulled back, and the bass guitar is not loud enough. There is also something funky about the kick pattern - too busy at times. All in all, I can hear why this song could be a struggle to mix. 
     
    Also, I like what you did with Fuego - interesting and very cool. 

      
    #21
    Lynn
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/03/01 15:43:21 (permalink)
    Tim, this mix sounds pretty good to me.  I hear a good balance between instruments and vocals.  Actually, the mix is good enough that the timing problems with the drums are quite clear.  I think if you pay attention to the timing, at this point, this song will come together and be a gem.

    All the best,
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    thegaltieribrothers
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/03/24 09:34:09 (permalink)
    A nice coming of age song to me, I would bring the bass up and add more synth held chords to complement your excellent piano work, good job!
     
    Best Wishes.
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    jude77
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    Re: Tragedy 2014/03/24 22:16:39 (permalink)
    I think these other guys have given you far better ideas than I could concerning the mix, but as for the song itself, I really liked it!!  I found the lyrics very provocative and insightful, and your voice is a good match to the song.
     
    I hope you much success with your music!!
    #24
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