Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar

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zippsinc
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2011/01/02 18:29:34 (permalink)

Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar

Hi there

I've already searched for info on this.

I have a cousin who wishes to transfer the audio of a cassette to her PC. It's some precious memories of my cousins singing in the early 1970s. She does not have Sonar or any audio processing experience. The wav/mp3s she is looking for need not be of stellar critical quality but reasonable I guess.

Obviously, my first suggestion was something along the lines of this device. However, financial constraints being as they are these days I figured a microphone against a speaker would be the next best thing. I may eventually do this for her myself if I get the cassette from her but it would be better if she could do it herself kinda soon given the the infrequency of our family get togethers.

I was going to direct her to a download of Audacity. I suggested that she use the mic on a headset she has to capture the audio. I know this is a tad crude but it may be good enough for her.  However, on trying something similar myself in a test using an Lavalier with my PC's soundcard, I couldn't get a damn thing recorded. Despite selecting my soundcard as recording and playback I/O in Audacity's preferences, I'm not getting anything recorded. Have I forgot something simple here regarding settings?

I kind of had the same experience with Windows Sound Recorder.

What other options are there for this?

Any sugestions would be much appreciated.


Stewart

p.s. Happy New Year.

  

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    bitflipper
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/02 21:15:46 (permalink)
    My first thought was Audacity, too. But if she can use the line input on her soundcard rather than a microphone, the results will be much better. Also remind her to clean the heads in the cassette player before transferring!


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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/02 21:20:35 (permalink)
    Ditto on the download of audacity and a simple cable from radio shack like BIT says... she wants to run the signal straight in.

    IF... you can get a copy of the wave or MP3 and if you have something like Ozone4, you can really polish that old cassette recording up a bit.... add back some of the bottom and the highs that are lost over time..... I did that with some cassettes that had "lost their luster" due to age..... they sounded better than the original.

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    zippsinc
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/02 22:12:34 (permalink)
    Thanks guys

    That's great info. I'll recommend the head cleaning for definite. Well worth it.

    Regarding running the signal straight in, I've no idea what the spec of the machine she would use and, therefore, don't know about its outputs. Would a standard stereo 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable from 'Headphone' >>> 'Line Input' on the PC do the trick?


    Stewart

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    AT
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/02 22:19:34 (permalink)
    Stewart,

    most built- in sound cards have a mono 3.5 mm "minijack" line input.  A simple line adaptor will work.

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    zippsinc
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/02 22:29:55 (permalink)
    Thanks AT

    What do mean by a line adapter? I done a search and found allsorts...lol

    I wasn't figuring on anything other than a cable between both parties. Is it that there may be an impedance issue between the Hi-Fi Headphone Output and PC Line Input?


    Stewart

    Sonar X1d Producer/Pro Tools 9 - Win7 64bit - i7 930 2.8GHz - 6GB DDR3 RAM - RME MultifaceII - RND Portico 5012 & 5016 - Sytek MPX-4Aii - UAD2 Duo/Solo - MoFET76 - API 2500 - Dbx 160x (x2) - Dbx 166 (old revision) - FMR RNC (x2)
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    Chappel
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/02 22:51:30 (permalink)
    If you are using the Windows mixer you may have to enable line recording as the default is microphone, if I recall correctly. As bitflipper posted, the line in is a good bet. It is the best analog input for matching up with external electronic equipment. You should also adjust the sensitivity of the line in (in the recording properties) to match the output of the cassette deck for best sound quality. If the sensitivity is too high you'll get distortion, too low and you may get more noise in the recording.

    The device you posted the link for would work just fine if you have the extra cash. It connects via USB, which may leave you with less noise in the recording, and comes with its own recording software. But you can do what you want with what you already have, and Audacity, though it will require a bit more work. The advantage to the ION device is that it, and the software, are designed to do what you want to do.
    post edited by Chappel - 2011/01/02 22:53:09
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    AT
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/03 00:24:25 (permalink)
    A line adaptor - I was simply talking about connectors.  A minijack to minijack, or whatever it takes.  Most consumer cards have minijack in/outs.  I don't know what kind of connector your cassette uses.  And an old cassette may or may not be mono, or have all the signal on one channel.  You need the physical connectors to match, and then have to worry about stereo signal from the cassette.

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    Jonbouy
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/03 01:36:11 (permalink)
    Further most consumer sound cards have two ins, one mic level and one line in, and one line out for playback, they are normally colour coded with a little symbol adjacent to help you identify which is which.

    You won't actually need anything Windows sound recorder will even do the job, and just use the sound cards (Windows) mixer to get a good level on the input you use, normally line in.  Most cassette players if they don't have external connectors have a headphone jack that you can route to the sound cards line in just make sure you don't overdrive it by having the headphones turned up loud! 

    Turn the line in on windows up to about 80% and gently bring up the headphone out 'til you get a strong but not clipping signal, then you can turn the windows slider up fully knowing you are getting the strongest signal without too much distortion.

    Audacity is a nice free luxury though as you'll be able to trim the files nicely and export to mp3 if you want.
    post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/01/03 01:47:27

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    Chappel
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/03 05:03:12 (permalink)
    Jonbouy

     
    ...You won't actually need anything Windows sound recorder will even do the job...


    It's been years since I used it but doesn't the Windows sound recorder have a 60 second recording limit? I know it used to.
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/03 08:21:31 (permalink)
    A simple cable with jacks on each end that fit their respective output/input connectors should work just fine.

    She will likely have to use the Windows mixer to set the levels, and it's even possible that the mixer will pop up when the input is detected.

    Audacity is a great recorder to use for that purpose, but to convert it to MP3 she will need to load the LAME MP3 converter. Not a difficult thing to do.

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    zippsinc
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/03 11:49:35 (permalink)
    Hi there

    Thanks for you replies folks. Much appreciated.

    Regarding attempts, I've tried two differents mics (3.5mm). An Audio Technica ATR3350 mono Lavalier and a Creative Gaming headset with and Electret Condenser. Both were not that great as some of you folks predicted. In fact, they were dreadful.

    Directly, I've used what I know to be several working cables from Headphone Out to Line Input. The distrortion was unforgivable with no happy medium to be reached, regardless of the tweaking of volumes (input and output).

    Therefore, I am going to advise my cousin to get the ION Device. If I could get the cassette from my cousin, I was considering using a ribbon sandwiched between two speakers with it going into one of my RND Porticos >>> RME MultifaceII >>> Sonar. However, this is no longer a possibility given that, on trying the two cassette decks on an old hi-fi I have, they chewed the cassettes and are now refusing to eject them. It now has to be the device suited to the task's purpose I reckon - ION.

    Just for info regarding some of the posts:

    Windows Sound recorder does in fact have a 60 second limit. However, if you record say 10 seconds and then Edit >>> Copy, it then copies 10 seconds to the clipboard. If you then go to Edit >>> Paste (multiple times), it will add 10 seconds to your recoding limit each tim. Ctrl+V x 10 = 1 min 40 secs (in this case).

    Incidentally. Audacity (1.2.6) does have capacity to export to mp3.


    Thanks again for your help folks. Much appreciated.

    Stewart

    Sonar X1d Producer/Pro Tools 9 - Win7 64bit - i7 930 2.8GHz - 6GB DDR3 RAM - RME MultifaceII - RND Portico 5012 & 5016 - Sytek MPX-4Aii - UAD2 Duo/Solo - MoFET76 - API 2500 - Dbx 160x (x2) - Dbx 166 (old revision) - FMR RNC (x2)
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    Fog
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/03 11:56:19 (permalink)
    zip if she already has a tape deck with an aux out at the back a simple Y cable from maplins will do it (2 phono to a 3.5 mini jack)


    audacity is the obvious choice and it's free.. other things are magix do a few bits that do cost.. but do restoration also.

    just explain to her about getting the levels right.. I mean not clippinig etc.. in audacity it'll show that..

    the other thing about windows "sound levels" properties, is the record properties are on the menu.. and she may need to switch to that..

    IRC windows own sound recorder will do it BUT it's set for mono 11 or 22.. so you'd have to change that also.. but audacity and wavsaur are decent enough for the task of editing it also.

    if she wanted to put em out to cd.. remind her it's 16 bit 44.1

    http://www.filehippo.com/download_cdburnerxp/

    is a good thing for that..


    as for mp3.. easy thing would be lamedrop.. you just drop wav files to the box, and it outputs mp3 compat files but uses the LAME encoder
    http://www.rarewares.org/mp3-lamedrop.php
    post edited by Fog - 2011/01/03 11:57:57
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    Chappel
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/03 12:10:35 (permalink)
    I have to add that I have had great success in the past recording from a headphone jack/line out on a cassette deck to computer (Sound Blaster sound card). The trick is to turn the headphone volume down to about 20% volume and then to adjust the Line In sensitivity in the recording properties of the Windows Mixer. The first three videos on my Youtube page have songs that were originally done on computer, transferred to cassette and then back to the computer. They are too loud but that's because the person who made the videos for me normalized them too high. But the audio transfer itself was relatively noise and distortion free because I adjusted the levels the best I could.

    Not that the ION device is a bad deal, though it is a little pricey. Using that would probably be the simplest way to do it for someone not that familiar with using the Windows Mixer.
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    zippsinc
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/03 12:48:09 (permalink)
    Thanks guys.

    I'll do some more experiments tomorrow with the headphone out to line in and ask my cousin to give me details of her hi-fi system so that I can track down the manual and get info on her back panel's I/Os.

    Incidentally, Windows Sound Recorder only exports to WAV. On XP SP3 anyway.

    I just want to say thanks again to all who posted. This place is the best when there's an issue experienced by us sonarites. Thanks again.


    Stewart

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    Truckermusic
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/03 18:34:13 (permalink)
    Hey stewart
    I have a way that may work....I found it on the internet when a freind of mine asked me to do the very same thing.....

    I tried posting it here several times today from work but no go so I will try to PM you with it tomorrow....

    Clifford

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    zippsinc
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/05 12:10:32 (permalink)
    Thanks Truckermusic.

    I'll give it a go.

    Failing that, I've decided to take my laptop and UA-1G up to my cousins when we have the next get together and put a Fathead II in between the speakers of a hi-fi. However, I do wish she'd just buy the ION...lol


    Thanks again

    Stewart

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    Slugbaby
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/05 12:28:46 (permalink)
    I doubt you'll get anything worthwhile from micing the cassette player. 
    My vote would go towards Chappelle's turning down the output on the Line Out of the cassette deck, and making up the gain in your soundcard or Sonar.  Then EQ, Compress, etc.

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    Chappel
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/05 14:25:49 (permalink)
    zippsinc


    Thanks Truckermusic.

    I'll give it a go.

    Failing that, I've decided to take my laptop and UA-1G up to my cousins when we have the next get together and put a Fathead II in between the speakers of a hi-fi. However, I do wish she'd just buy the ION...lol


    Thanks again

    Stewart


    If you take your laptop and UA-1G you should try connecting the UA-1G to the cassette deck/hi-fi and recording with Sonar. All you would need is a cable. One male stereo mini-plug on one end for the cassette player and two male RCA on the other end for the UA-1G. If the cassette player has a line out turn the volume all the way up. If it only has a headphone jack turn the volume down to 25%. Adjust the input level with the UA-1G so you can just see the red light flicker when the music plays. That will give you an input level of about -9db.

    If the hi-fi has RCA outputs for a line-out all you'd need would be a standard stereo male RCA cable

    You MIGHT get better results with the ION device, you might not. For sure the cable is a lot cheaper.
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    zippsinc
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/07 17:43:06 (permalink)
    Slugbaby


    I doubt you'll get anything worthwhile from micing the cassette player. 
    My vote would go towards Chappelle's turning down the output on the Line Out of the cassette deck, and making up the gain in your soundcard or Sonar.  Then EQ, Compress, etc.

    Thanks slugbaby. I can't get anything but distortion using headphone outs. I haven't tried other types of line out because I don't have that capacity on my very old Hi-Fi. This may well be the best bet.

    I would need to know the specs of the intended Hi-Fi so that I could use it as Chappel suggests in his last post. Thanks Chappel.

    Incidentally, for some reason using the UA-1G in this way didn't occur to me. The UA-1G only popped into my mind when I required a mobile mic input solution. I clean forgot about all its features. I've over-thought this situation so much that my brain took a tea-break. ha ha


    Thanks again

    Stewart

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    Chappel
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/07 18:04:27 (permalink)
    I can't emphasize enough how important it is to turn the headphone output down to 25% or less of max volume. If the player does not have a volume control for the headphone output then it is a very poor choice for recording directly to a computer.

    Line outputs are frequently called AUX outputs on many amplifiers/tuners and other electronic audio devices.
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    zippsinc
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/07 19:31:55 (permalink)
    Chappel


    I can't emphasize enough how important it is to turn the headphone output down to 25% or less of max volume. If the player does not have a volume control for the headphone output then it is a very poor choice for recording directly to a computer.

    Line outputs are frequently called AUX outputs on many amplifiers/tuners and other electronic audio devices.


    Hi Chappel

    Ah...I have written confusingly in the other post. Sorry. My Hi-Fi is just a bit old to have Aux outs and the speakers connect with bare wires into clipping type connectors. It does have a volume control though.

    Yes, I turned the volume on my Hi-Fi down to 25% and used my windows recording control mixer and slowly scanned the slider's entire range, kinda like trying to tune in a radio station. It was all distorted though. I even tried the volume of my Hi-Fi lower than this and even higher. All distortion I'm afraid.

    Yep...I agree. Line/Aux outputs on my cousin's Hi-Fi are the way to go. 


    Thanks Chappel

    Stewart

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    ohhey
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/09 14:59:24 (permalink)
    zippsinc


    Chappel


    I can't emphasize enough how important it is to turn the headphone output down to 25% or less of max volume. If the player does not have a volume control for the headphone output then it is a very poor choice for recording directly to a computer.

    Line outputs are frequently called AUX outputs on many amplifiers/tuners and other electronic audio devices.


    Hi Chappel

    Ah...I have written confusingly in the other post. Sorry. My Hi-Fi is just a bit old to have Aux outs and the speakers connect with bare wires into clipping type connectors. It does have a volume control though.

    Yes, I turned the volume on my Hi-Fi down to 25% and used my windows recording control mixer and slowly scanned the slider's entire range, kinda like trying to tune in a radio station. It was all distorted though. I even tried the volume of my Hi-Fi lower than this and even higher. All distortion I'm afraid.

    Yep...I agree. Line/Aux outputs on my cousin's Hi-Fi are the way to go. 


    Thanks Chappel

    Stewart


    Does it have a headphone jack ? I've used those many times and they work great.  It's much lower output then the speaker outs. You still have to start with the volume all the way down and work it up slowly till you get the levels correct but it works. You just need a Y cable with a stereo 1/4" on one end and the connector you need to fit your input on the other end, it's 1/8" stereo on most PCs.  On the PC side you will need a line input (not mic input).  Some sound cards will let you set it in software or even jumpers on the board. Others have another input just for line level.
    post edited by ohhey - 2011/01/09 15:02:41
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    zippsinc
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    Re:Transferring Cassette to PC for a relative without Sonar 2011/01/10 18:37:52 (permalink)
    Hi Frank

    Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated.

    The Headphone Outs I've tried here are far too distorted depsite following the kind advice you and others have given. I'm gonna visit my cousin in a week or two and go direct from an Aux out her Hi-Fi to the inputs my UA-1G. This should take care of it. I have Sonar LE on my laptop. Should be easy I reckon.


    Thanks again

    Stewart

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