EltonJohn
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Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
Hello. I'm having trouble with computer crashes when using Cakewalk. Can anyone help me troubleshoot this problem? The crashes take the form of computer freeze-up: the computer simply stops responding to any mouse or keyboard activity. Ctrl-Alt-Delete does nothing. To regain control of the computer, I must manually shut it down (force shut-down using the power switch), and re-boot. These computer freezes only happen when I use Sonar (X2) – (in fairness, more than 90% of the time I am using this computer, I am using Sonar). The freezes are intermittent and episodic: I can go days using the computer without freezes, and then might experience a couple of freezes in one day. The computer freezes have not happened when recording or playing back, but instead when I am interacting with Sonar (editing, using menus, etc). On two occasions after a freeze, I have been able to reproduce a repeat freezes by setting up the same actions in Sonar. I have started keeping a log of these freezes, and I have had about 10 freezes over the last 2-3 months. I asked Cakewalk Tech Support (TS) about this. They replied that the problem is not Sonar but must be my computer and/or drivers on the computer. They said that Sonar cannot cause these sorts of computer freezes. When I asked them why the computer freezes occur only when using Sonar, and why I am sometimes able to reproduce freezes, I got no further response from TS. The computer: I built this computer specifically to run Win 7 and Sonar X2, and other audio software. This computer has no other functions. The processor is an Intel i5 3570, an ASUS P8Z77 mobo, running the Northbridge chipset, and has 16 gB of Corsair memory. The OS is Win 7. I am using Sonar X2a (I believe I have installed all the available Sonar X2 updates). The audio interface is my Mackie Onyx 1604 mixer with firewire card installed. Mackie only makes one driver for this device and this OS (if I remember correctly it is driver ver. 1.7). I also have a Motu Micro Express USB MIDI interface; Motu only makes one driver for this device and this OS (I think they call it the “universal driver”). All other drivers for this computer are native to the Win 7 OS. This computer uses the onboard graphics capabilities of the processor, so there is no dedicated video/graphics accelerator card, and no graphics driver. Can anyone suggest ways I can eliminate these crashes/freezes? I am happy to answer any questions about the problem or the computer. Thank you.
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slartabartfast
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/14 17:22:15
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The first thing I would try is a rigorous test of the computer's physical memory. This kind of stall is often a symptom of hitting dead memory during execution. Until the dead memory address is accessed everything will run fine, so if you are using a program that never reaches that address there will be no symptom. I had a similar problem with an old machine while trying to install Windows 2000. The installation would always stall at exactly the same point while copying a particular file from the CD. But the file and the CD were not the problem, it was just the case that at that point in the installation routine, the faulty memory was being accessed. I had a similar problem when using only one version of PaperPort. Apparently that program accessed a faulty memory bit when all my other software did not. In both cases replacing the faulty stick of RAM resolved the issue. So repeatability with a particular action in a program does not rule out a hardware problem as the cause. http://www.memtest.org/
post edited by slartabartfast - 2013/12/14 17:23:26
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EltonJohn
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/14 19:12:55
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Hello. Thank you for your reply. And for your useful suggestion. I will try Memtest and report back, and report back. Thanks again
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EltonJohn
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/15 08:36:34
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Hello. So I ran Memtest+86 ver. 5.01 last night. I did 2 full passes, about 3+ hours, with 0 errors. So that suggests the computer's memory is not causing this problem.
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slartabartfast
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/15 13:11:18
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So much for an easy diagnosis. That is at least good evidence that the sticks themselves are not defective. The memory timings in the MB BIOS could still be slightly off and produce intermittent freezes. And then there are many potential intermittent hardware glitches that may be impossible to find for all practical purposes, like a defective solder connection that spreads at a certain temperature and fails to connect 100%, brief fluctuations of power, etc. etc. And then there is software... You can try removing cleaning and re-seating every connection on anything you plug in to the mainboard. http://helpdeskgeek.com/windows-7/troubleshoot-windows-7-random-freezes/
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gustabo
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/15 15:41:41
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Are you doing any overclocking on the machine?
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3 M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad Adam A7X - Behritone C50A PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons) https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
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EltonJohn
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/16 08:42:23
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Hello. I am not overclocking the processor: I can't but help feel this is a problem with Sonar: 1) I have no freezes when using any other application (the computer ran Memtest for 3+ hours without any freezes, I worked in Sound Forge for 2 hours without any freezes); 2) Sonar seems buggy in lots of minor ways that are hard to explain (I had a VST plug-in that I deleted from the computer - Sonar still lists the plug-in on the Insert menu, tho' the plug-in is not listed in the Plug-In Manager). Taking the computer apart and re-building it seems like a big effort for an undiagnosed problem. Has anyone actually solved an intermittent crashing/freezing problem of this sort by doing this?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/16 09:05:00
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A very quick & easy thing you can try is to delete or rename your Aud.ini file The next time you launch Sonar it will build a new one, based on your current configuration You'll lose nothing by trying
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EltonJohn
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/16 10:20:28
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Thank you Bristol for your suggestion. How do I do this? Where can I find this aud.ini file? Thanks
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Sir Les
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/18 14:04:56
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HAY Sir EltonJohn...Had similar issues with x1-x2...my solution might not be your solution. But before we go forward with troubleshooting, most of the techs here, need your system specs....you can add to your profile, so they always get posted with your posts....and some others may want event viewer info of the crashes... Just to let you know, sometimes you have to tweak the OS...turning off system sounds, video excelleration, and windows apps that run in the background...which cause interrupts in cpu usage, and other things that my conflict with Sonar...so turning off some of the offenders, such as firewall, and anti virus, system security features, before using Sonar, may help... So first post up your system specs...then more can chime in.
1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II, G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive, 2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT. 2. USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back! 3. Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
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Sir Les
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/18 14:10:19
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And do not delete the aud.ini..if you are opening older sonar projects...just rename it for now....and if you can no longer open older files from a younger Sonar version, that were opening pryor to the rename, if so.....you can rename the Aud.ini back to its original state to regain that status back.
post edited by Sir Les - 2013/12/18 14:12:09
1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II, G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive, 2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT. 2. USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back! 3. Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
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EltonJohn
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/19 09:49:16
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Hello, Sir Les. Thanks for your reply. 1) I have Windows Sounds set to "No sounds". 2) This DAW is not connected to the Internet. Consequently, I have no anti-virus programs installed on this computer. The Win 7 Firewall function is on the computer. 3) Full DAW specs Processor - Intel i5 3570 Quad core 3.40 Ghz - running at standard speed, not overclocking MOBO - ASUS P8Z77-V LX w/ Intel Northbridge Z77 Express chipset Drives - 2 x Seagate ST500DM002 Barracuda, 500 GB, 7200 rpm, SATA-6G Memeory - 2 x Corsair Vengence CMZ16GX3M2A1600C10B (2 modules of 8 GB apiece: total 16 GB), DDR3 Power - Corsair CMPSU-750TXV2, 750 watts Firewire - StarTech.com 4 port PCI 1394a firewire card OS - Win 7 Home Premium 64 bit, SP-1 Cakewalk - Sonar X2a (I believe I have all Sonar X2 updates installed) 4) I am indeed opening older Sonar projects, so I appreciate the tip about renaming the Aud.ini file. I assume the Aud.ini file is located in the main Cakewalk folder?
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/19 15:59:08
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The Mackie units are pretty fussy about the specific TI Chipset Firewire Controller. IOW, Not just any TI chipset controller will work well. From what you describe (somewhat random freezes) a bad stick of RAM would have been a likely culprit. If that's not the case, I'd take a look at the Firewire Controller. The SIIG TI Chipset controller works well with the Mackie units. The less expensive Syba TI Chipset Firewire Controllers do not. If you're running a Firewire audio interface... and you're experiencing issues (and you've ruled out RAM and other sources of instability), the Firewire controller is another likely culprit.
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EltonJohn
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/19 19:17:41
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Hello. Thanks for your input Jim R. 1) I ran Memtest+86 for 2 complete cycles, and no errors were reported. This suggests the memory is ok. 2) Other than ram problems, what "other sources of instability" should I check on? 3) How do I identify my TI chipset firewire controller? Under Device Manager > IEEE 1394 Bus host controller, what is listed is "Texas Instrument 1394 OHCI compliant host controller", and under Properties for this device it simply says "Texas Instrument 1394 OHCI compliant host controller". Thanks again.
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EltonJohn
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/20 11:29:36
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Hello. The firewire card in my computer is a StarTech.com brand. On their web-site for this card, they list the following information: "Chipset ID - Texas Instruments - TSB12LV26".
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Sir Les
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/20 17:34:43
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From what I know about TI and/or compatability standards with firewire IEEE 1394...if you update to firewire IEEE 1394b 400/800 you get a better chip ...still have to research the best recommendation of chip for your audio device, but the newer 800 IEEE 1394b 400/800 cards I believe have solved some of the problems 400 IEEE 1394 had. What does the manufacturer of Your audio interface recommend?
1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II, G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive, 2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT. 2. USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back! 3. Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
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EltonJohn
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/21 10:31:38
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Hello, Sir Les. That is a good question, and I don't know the answer. I will check on the Mackie website to see what they recommend there. Sadly, my Makcie Onyx 1604 mixer with firewire card installed is now a legacy device. Mackie has since moved on to building a 1604 mixer with the firewire capabilities built into the mixer, so they may not have recommendations for my device. I really hate that about digital sound hardware and software: you find out ofter you purchase it that the lifespan of the device is limited by upgrades to computer hardware, changes to the OS, or the maker simply no longer supports the device.
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Sir Les
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/21 12:01:54
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I know it may be necessary to upgrade, But at this point, let us not jump to any conclusions on IEEE firewire. But was thinking more in line with the computer IEEE being needing a upgrade...not your audio device...althought the audio device needs to be connected to a IEEE port on the computer...legacy or not....and should work. But those legacy drivers for the computer may not have been worked out well enough...So making a jump to a IEEE b 800 card which usually are backwards compatable or have a 400 port with a newer bug reduced state chip may help some , ... Let us see some system Info Please....Could be just a conflict with IRQ's...or a app running in background. So before we jump to conclusions on the firewire problematics being the X factor,...which is working?....let us get some info about your system setup. You can copy paste some up by going to ...start button/all programs/Accessories/system tools/ system information click on conflicts and sharing Tab, . when it shows up..copy and paste. Also go to IRQ's Tab and post that up...also check the Software Environment/ system Driver status , and make sure they are all OK. Then we can move to other things which may point out the culprit.
1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II, G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive, 2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT. 2. USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back! 3. Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/22 12:11:44
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EltonJohn Sadly, my Makcie Onyx 1604 mixer with firewire card installed is now a legacy device. Mackie has since moved on to building a 1604 mixer with the firewire capabilities built into the mixer, so they may not have recommendations for my device. Mackie Firewire units are particularly fussy about the Firewire controller. Get a SIIG TI chipset controller. They're more expensive... but it'll work.
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Sir Les
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Re: Troubleshooting Computer Crashes in Cakewalk
2013/12/28 12:49:15
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Well I would contact the Mackie People on that, before buying more of..and make absolutely sure,,,.( no sense going out and buying cards that may...or may not work, if you can avoid doing so.)...for my Firewire solution, and Allen and Heath desk,... I followed the manufactures advice on upgrading to a 400 / 800 card and TI chipset, they had a list to follow of Great, good to fair, and ones to stay away from...So I hope you find some resolve with your Question as to what is necessary for Your Mackie...from Mackie...that way you are sure it is correctly done .
1. Intel 5960x 3.5mhz , ASUS x99 deluxe u3.1, Asus Thunderbolt ex II, G skills f4 3000 Memory 32GB , ADATA ssd 250GB Main Drive, Lots of WD Red 7200 Mechanical Drives with Black Drives, 14x multi optical Drive, LG Multi Blu Drive, 2X Extern WD Mybooks usb 3.0, AMD r7 270 video card, Motu 828x TB , Motu Midi XT. 2. USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back! 3. Something Wonderful: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlHkRy9cXBbYpQNvVBCt8r7fQ5PS
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