Tutorial on Using BUSSES with Mixes

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crosstrax
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2013/09/04 12:26:27 (permalink)

Tutorial on Using BUSSES with Mixes

Has anyone seen a simple tutorial or explanation on how to really use the BUSS feature in X2?
I have a couple of sample projects but can't really figure them out. One of the samples has a MIXDOWN slider which appears to only mirror the MASTER so not sure what this is about either.
 
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    CJaysMusic
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    Re: Tutorial on Using BUSSES with Mixes 2013/09/04 15:42:55 (permalink)
    You can use buses in many many ways in Sonar. You can use them for parallel compression, instruemtn groups,  sending tracks to effects, making different sub mixes, and making a headphone mix. There is no right or wrong way to use them when mixing. You just do what ever is needed for that particular song
     
    Sends take your signal to a bus. you can send it pre fade or post fade (before or after the track fader)
     
    Its just like a hardware mixing board. The only difference is that its on your screen and you use your mouse or control surface to adjust the settings, rather than your fingers.
     
    CJ
     

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    #2
    slartabartfast
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    Re: Tutorial on Using BUSSES with Mixes 2013/09/04 15:45:32 (permalink)
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    jm24
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    Re: Tutorial on Using BUSSES with Mixes 2013/09/04 16:07:31 (permalink)
    I use a MAIN OUT bus for analysis and consistent volume level:

    The MAIN OUT bus:
        is the first bus, easy to see,... This is the listening bus   
        controls the monitoring volume sent to the audio device
        does NOT have "effects." And no envelopes
        has monitoring tools: Voxengo Span, vintage meter, Panipulator
     
    The MASTER MIX bus is next, it is used for bounces, exports,....  ALL final effects are in the bin.
     
    This bus is output to the MAIN OUT bus.
     
    The MASTER MIX bus may have volume envelopes for fades and misc. adjustments.
     
    "Bounce to tracks" mixes and Export from the MASTER MIX bus.
    ----------------
    Only two buses feed the MASTER MIX bus:  VOCALS ALL, and INSTRUMENTS ALL.
     
    I follow this logic for all instruments as well. Each has its final bus feeding INSTRUMENTS ALL. This provide quick adjustment for each grouping: muting, volume, EQ, effects,...
     
    (I have track templates to create all or some of the various instrument buses: strings, purc, piano,...)
    ---------------------
    For bounces::
    I add at least two blank tracks labeled MIX1 and MIX2, to projects. These output to the MAIN OUT. NOT
    directly to the sound device.
    I change the name of the mix tracks (and add the date) BEFORE bouncing-to-tracks so the created wav file will have a name that reflects the name of the track. This is useful.
     
    I then solo the mix track to listen to the mix(s). Which is routed through the MAIN OUT bus.
    And all the analysis tools are the same, and quick to open.
     
    Since the mix tracks are output to the MAIN OUT bus, there is no need to bypass the effects/eq, or change the volume setting of the MASTER MIX bus when listening to a mix track.
     
    And because the MAIN OUT bus volume is the same, I can compare, audibly and visually, the mix with the original tracks.
     
    ((Per CJ's insight, if the bounced track/mix does not sound correct, before I do anything else, I use
    control-z (undo) to remove the mix clip, and the wav file from the disk. This means I have fewer
    orphaned audio files.))
     
    Simplified example:
    http://logicalarts.com/temp/SonarRouting0913c.jpg
     

     
     
    #4
    lawajava
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    Re: Tutorial on Using BUSSES with Mixes 2013/09/04 21:41:09 (permalink)
    crosstrax - there's a very good tutorial also available from Groove3.

    I had a post not long ago on a bus method I use, based in part from that tutorial.

    Link to my post on bus routing:

    http://forum.cakewalk.com...echnique-m2870816.aspx

    Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
    #5
    CJaysMusic
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    Re: Tutorial on Using BUSSES with Mixes 2013/09/05 15:27:21 (permalink)
    The Main Outs are not Buses. Lets no confuse them with buses. Main outs are actual outputs for your sound card.
     
    This is the flow of the signal:
    Tracks -> Buses -> Main outs

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    jm24
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    Re: Tutorial on Using BUSSES with Mixes 2013/09/05 15:46:06 (permalink)
    My first buss is named MAIN OUT    not outs.
     
    I think it important to have quick access to the hardware volume that will not affect the actual volume of the project.
     
    I never see, adjust, or change the hardware outputs, which are labeled E-MU Asio sonar out.
     
    I will adjust the graphic to be clearest.
    #7
    John
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    Re: Tutorial on Using BUSSES with Mixes 2013/09/05 16:22:09 (permalink)
    The above two posts conflict and are confusing things. 
     
    CJ is right.  In Sonar speak "main outs" refer to the hardware outs.  Many of us use the term master buss to refer to the buss that is first and receives all inputs before going to the main outs. The reason I for example place it first is so my Mackie Control will see it as the master buss too. Its even labeled that way. 
     
    The main outs should be left at unity.

    Best
    John
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    jm24
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    Re: Tutorial on Using BUSSES with Mixes 2013/09/05 17:31:31 (permalink)
    I will rename my MAIN OUT bus to something not in conflict with the invisible hardware faders, that no one should ever have to look upon.  And, for me, are not labeled as MAIN anything.
     
    My first bus controls the hardware.
     
    My second bus controls the project's FINAL MIX STATUS.
     
    So much for attempting to be reasonable.
     
     
     
     
    #9
    John
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    Re: Tutorial on Using BUSSES with Mixes 2013/09/05 17:43:31 (permalink)
    Jm no they are not named main outs but we use that term to refer to those outs. 
     
    There is no right way to set this up. We just have come to a sort of consensus. And like I said for CS usage placing the master buss first makes it easy to configure a CS. If you don't use as a CS than there is no reason to do it that way.
     
    Although we may be talking about two different things.
     
    The buss pane in the CV is to the left of the main outs pane which has the hardware outs and is visible. So I'm not sure what you mean about a buss being first that controls the hardware. 
     
    You can not see the hardware outs in the buss pane in the track view. 

    Best
    John
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    jm24
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    Re: Tutorial on Using BUSSES with Mixes 2013/09/05 17:46:03 (permalink)
    And:  The "hardware" outputs from Sonar are actually Sonar's final output(s). Although they are connected to hardware/speakers for most of us, they are not directly connected to hardware.
     
    For me Sonar's outputs feed track strips in the Patchmix program, which can be routed to other asio pipes/conduits/streams, and/or to actual hardware outputs.
     
    The CW dudes should change this nomenclature to reflect current reality. Don't ya think?
     
     
    #11
    jm24
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    Re: Tutorial on Using BUSSES with Mixes 2013/09/05 17:52:24 (permalink)
    Yo John
     
    I understand the historical consensus.
     
    My first bus is for sound level adjustment.  It is NOT for a project's final mix.  I never touch or see Sonar's final output buses, in the third panel.
     
    The 2nd bus is the final mix bus.
     
    As the diagram shows: when a mix, from the master mix bus, is bounced to tracks, the output of the new track is sent to the Main Out BUS.  This maintains levels for the speakers, and other monitoring tools.
     
    This is in keeping with using a control surface as you have described for a  "Master" bus.
     
    My difference is the master bus and the master projects mixing bus are NOT the same.
     
     
     
    #12
    John
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    Re: Tutorial on Using BUSSES with Mixes 2013/09/05 17:52:26 (permalink)
    I suppose it depends on what you mean by connected. In no case are they directly connected to hardware. There has to be a driver involved. 
     
    The point is that they are the last thing as far as Sonar is concerned for outputing audio. 

    Best
    John
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    SuperG
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    Re: Tutorial on Using BUSSES with Mixes 2013/09/06 01:04:20 (permalink)

    This is the flow of the signal:
    Tracks -> Buses -> Main outs

     
    +1
     
    That's the short description.
     
     
    Tracks  (send)->   n..(Bus/out)
               (post fader)-> Bus/Out
     
    Bus    (send) ->    n..(Bus/Out)
              (post fader)  ->     Bus/Out
     
    Out -> driver->Hardware
                
    The big deal is in terminology, and software mixers give you way more rope to hang yourself with than a hardware mixer ever did. Hardware mixers had fixed inputs, inserts, buses, and mains - the architecture and routing capabilities are set in stone. Here in Sonar, there are no fixed limitations. If you want to put reverb on every channel you can certainly do so if you have the horsepower - and skip the bus altogether. A bus is not required, although it's a convenience that makes sense.
     
    Personally, my endpoint is a bus I call Master all other buses may feed another bus, either through a send or post fader to another bus, but eventually the signal all flows to Master. Master feeds a Mains bus and out to the speaker. 
     
    When exporting you have a choice of methods. You can choose 'entire mix' which would be from your mains. or you could export buses and select 'Master' (in my case).
     
    Sonar gives you the rope - it's up to you how you use it. There is no routing that is perfect for all, although there are rules of thumb that work as guidelines (but are not mandates).

    laudem Deo
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