Spaceduck
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Two bands with the same name... who wins?
What happens when 2 bands are using the same name? Here are a couple scenarios: 1) You're first but they're bigger. You've been using BandX for the last 20 years (and you have the copyrights to prove it). You're a nobody from Butte Montana, but suddenly another BandX from Los Angeles gets famous. Can you force them to change their name? 2) They're first, but you're bigger. You decide you're going to use the name BandX. You do a web search and find that there's already a group called BandX (nobodys from Butte Montana), BUT the domain bandx.com is available. Can you snag the domain, build a website and commandeer the name for yourself? 3) Nobody can prove who's first or who's bigger. You're both unknown & unsigned. They have bandx.com and you have bandx.net. Should you just ignore them and keep doing what you're doing? (By the way, I'm in category #3. I just learned that there's a punk band in Germany who's using the same name as my band. We've both been around for ~10 years. Actually I think I was first, but it'll be hard to prove it because I didn't copyright anything til recently  )
post edited by Spaceduck - 2007/06/13 12:57:19
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ParanoiA
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/06/13 13:07:53
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You know, I probably shouldn't post this because it won't clear anything up. But, if I remember correctly, there's something about geographical area. If you're in America and they're in Germany, you can both use the same name without conflict. But if you were to do a show in Germany, then you couldn't use the name because they have Germany. And vice versa if they came here.
It gets deeper than that though...
I was checking out myspace music, and there are about a hundred paranoia's out there - that's my operating name, so I'm in a similar position although I've been trying to ignore it....
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yep
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/06/13 13:21:32
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ORIGINAL: Spaceduck
What happens when 2 bands are using the same name?... Nobody can prove who's first or who's better.
You're both unknown & unsigned. They have bandx.com and you have bandx.net. Should you just ignore them and keep doing what you're doing?...
Yes. This falls not under copyright law but trademark law, which can be considerably murkier. There is nothing illegal about two companies or bands or individuals having the same name. Think about how many "Joe's Garages" there must be. If one or the other of you wanted to pursue a trademark claim against the other (most likely if one or the other became famous) then things could get messy, and one or the other may end up having to change the name. There is a trademark office where you can register trademarks such as names and logos. Like copyright, trademark registration does not guarantee that you are actually entitled to that name or logo, it just officially registers your claim to it with the government. Cheers.
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DreamzCatcher
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/06/16 17:21:48
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ouch
thats kinda sticky matter.
specially if you already developed a style with ur name and had something special to the it :X
I think there is no winner...both lose unless someone give up on the name.
hard to believe that both will keep use the same name because the internet will cause them lots of problems and the listeners will get confused.
The best solution is to talk with the other band, the one with the less audience and less songs should be nice and give up on the name, if they already 2 grown bands, then only money may help here.
"Don't forget to imagine." Intel 965P-DS4 F5, Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6300@1.86GHz (x2), 2,096,620 KB RAM. Cubase SX 4, SoundForge 9.. Dynaudio Acoustics & Adam A7..
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serauk
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/06/16 20:34:55
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This actually happened to some friends of mine years ago - they had become a pretty big regional band and had done some serious road shows - got picked up by Columbia, who then discovered that there was another band with the same name in Minneapolis - so the Austin band had to change its name, the record was released, and they never really broke out because no-one knew who this newly named band was (well not many people)... I think they broke up shortly after that...
so I'd say DreamzCatcher is essentially right - no-one wins this one, especially now with the internet to confuse everything - you can register any domain name it isn't already owned. so, for example, I could go get beatlesuk.com and sell my stuff there. As long as I don't claim to be the Beatles or anything along that line there isn't anything anyone can do (I think, but I'm not a lawyer)... like Yep said, it would fall under trademark law which is bad juju....
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strungdown
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/06/18 14:04:04
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Just stick a number on the end of the name, like say, 182
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jinga8
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/06/22 14:14:39
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Or perhaps remove the "The" from the name. The Cool Dudes becomes Cool Dudes. Some bands omit the "the" by choice. Everybody talks about "The Pixies" but it's really "Pixies". And no one liked The Smashing Pumpkins, because they are simply Smashing Pumpkins, etc..... Then of course there is the case of The The, who would become The... 
post edited by jinga8 - 2007/06/22 14:19:29
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doc_drop
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/06/22 14:25:05
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My band, DROP, becomes sfDROP when we need to separate ourselves from the other 3,000 DROP's out there. We're a DROP in the bucket in more than one way...
Doc (You guessed it) DROP
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kennywtelejazz
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/06/22 16:02:14
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been a while since I have thought of this topic I'm under the impresion that whomever has the name tradmarked first actualy stands a better case of maintaining and winning a legal battle I'm not a lawyer, but I've been down this road once with a former band that had to change its name which was not trademarked ... we were East Coast tri State area original giging band and there where no probs there EC. when a label showed interest they researched and found another group had already trademarked the name way before .. ... we hadnt even checked outside of the tri state area I soon left the band before they singed and wound up in the can.... using the same lawyers as the record company didnt sit to well with me....  Kenny
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j boy
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/06/22 17:53:33
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ORIGINAL: Spaceduck
What happens when 2 bands are using the same name? Here are a couple scenarios:
1) You're first but they're bigger.
You've been using BandX for the last 20 years (and you have the copyrights to prove it). You're a nobody from Butte Montana, but suddenly another BandX from Los Angeles gets famous. Can you force them to change their name?
2) They're first, but you're bigger.
You decide you're going to use the name BandX. You do a web search and find that there's already a group called BandX (nobodys from Butte Montana), BUT the domain bandx.com is available. Can you snag the domain, build a website and commandeer the name for yourself?
3) Nobody can prove who's first or who's bigger.
You're both unknown & unsigned. They have bandx.com and you have bandx.net. Should you just ignore them and keep doing what you're doing?
(By the way, I'm in category #3. I just learned that there's a punk band in Germany who's using the same name as my band. We've both been around for ~10 years. Actually I think I was first, but it'll be hard to prove it because I didn't copyright anything til recently )
4) You like the name. So you show up at the other band's next gig with a big beefy dude name Vito, tell 'em it might be bad for their health if they don't change their name...
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/06/22 20:12:12
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ORIGINAL: j boy
ORIGINAL: Spaceduck
What happens when 2 bands are using the same name? Here are a couple scenarios:
1) You're first but they're bigger.
You've been using BandX for the last 20 years (and you have the copyrights to prove it). You're a nobody from Butte Montana, but suddenly another BandX from Los Angeles gets famous. Can you force them to change their name?
2) They're first, but you're bigger.
You decide you're going to use the name BandX. You do a web search and find that there's already a group called BandX (nobodys from Butte Montana), BUT the domain bandx.com is available. Can you snag the domain, build a website and commandeer the name for yourself?
3) Nobody can prove who's first or who's bigger.
You're both unknown & unsigned. They have bandx.com and you have bandx.net. Should you just ignore them and keep doing what you're doing?
(By the way, I'm in category #3. I just learned that there's a punk band in Germany who's using the same name as my band. We've both been around for ~10 years. Actually I think I was first, but it'll be hard to prove it because I didn't copyright anything til recently )
4) You like the name. So you show up at the other band's next gig with a big beefy dude name Vito, tell 'em it might be bad for their health if they don't change their name...
5) you like the name. you drop a hint to all the big labels about this other band with an awesome name that really rocks. sony snatches up the other band, but after an anonymous tip, they find out there's this other band with the same name (you). sony makes them change their name, puts rootkits on their CDs and screws over the band on royalties. they break up to pursue dead-end solo careers and become so poor they couldn't sue you if they tried. problem solved.
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kennywtelejazz
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Twigman
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/07/11 12:59:08
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One should be a little more imaginative with the name one gives one's band.
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Spaceduck
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/07/14 09:31:38
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ORIGINAL: Twigman
One should be a little more imaginative with the name one gives one's band.
It's a tough spot. On the one hand you're right that it should be imaginative, but on the other hand you want a name that is easily recognized & remembered. A good rule of thumb someone once told me: try saying it to someone at a loud, crowded club. If you have to repeat yourself more than 3 times, then it's too complicated. YOU: I play in a band called "The Screaming Zippie Freak Walruses" THEM: The Smoking Zipper Freak Watermelons? YOU: "The Screaming Zippie Freak Walruses" THEM: The Peeping Zebra Farfegnugen? YOU: "The Doors"
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Roflcopter
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/07/14 13:56:06
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I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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DaveClark
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/07/14 14:37:31
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Hi Spaceduck,
Yep is right. This is a trademark issue, and not a copyright issue. People confuse these two all the time; they are actually quite different and they are completely separate.
What you described is a problem only if you or the other party make it a problem.
If this ever goes to court, a judge may decide that there really is no conflict, even if the two parties involved think that there is. So I personally would go on with life.
However if you are truly concerned about it, then you should read about what it is required in order to establish a trademark, the follow one or more of those steps. For example: If I recall correctly, the the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office application for a trademark requires that you have engaged in interstate commerce for a period of time prior to the application. I'm not suggesting that you get a registered trademark, but instead look at what would be required to apply for one, then see if you can follow some of those steps to prevent problems. For example: Sell CD's out of state. File a DBA or "assumed name certificate" in your county. Do an international tour!! If that band in Germany has sold CD's in the US, then they've got a pretty strong case anywhere in the US outside of your "territory." Being first does help, but not everywhere. If they were first in Delaware, then it doesn't matter how long you've been around because nobody there knows anything about you. They associate the name with the other band. All you may be able to do is keep them from taking over in places where people associate the name with you instead of them, and the types of things I suggested help do that.
But again: What you described is a problem only if you or the other party make it a problem.
Regards,
Dave Clark
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lespaulman35
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/07/16 04:46:02
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ORIGINAL: Twigman
One should be a little more imaginative with the name one gives one's band.
Ass Maggots! Who else would call a band Ass Maggots! Oh, apparntly them!
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Roflcopter
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/07/16 05:42:54
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Guy came to me with an idea month ago, something he came up with in a dream, sortof mix of 2 animals - if I could check if anyone had already done that - and sure, found a pic of it in Japan, somewhere. 'Original' is like 'imaginative', reasonably easy to pronounce as a word, but that's where it stops being easy.
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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fejede
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/07/26 14:20:23
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There is more to it than just this, but....
The test for infringement is whether the use of the disputed mark creates a likelihood of confusion among the consuming public.
I am not a lawyer.
This is not legal advice.
In other words, is it likely that the German band's fans will confuse your band with the German band or vice versa?
For the time being, do not sell any records in Germany.
Regards,
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yep
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/07/26 22:29:51
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ORIGINAL: fejede
...In other words, is it likely that the German band's fans will confuse your band with the German band or vice versa?
For the time being, do not sell any records in Germany.
Regards,
This is a little overboard IMHO. Trademark law is a little more forgiving than copyright law when it comes to unintentional infringement. Usually the worst penalty you face is you have to change your name unless the plaintiff can prove that you deliberately and fraudulently tried to capitalize on their name (although see my sig for some nasty examples of lawyers gone wild). As the old saw goes, anyone can be sued for anything at any time, but aside from Monster cable most companies and people (and even some lawyers) are usually pretty reasonable when it comes to genuine misunderstandings and gray areas. Cheers.
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fejede
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/07/27 00:19:33
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ORIGINAL: yep
ORIGINAL: fejede
...In other words, is it likely that the German band's fans will confuse your band with the German band or vice versa?
For the time being, do not sell any records in Germany.
Regards,
This is a little overboard IMHO.
Trademark law is a little more forgiving than copyright law when it comes to unintentional infringement. Usually the worst penalty you face is you have to change your name unless the plaintiff can prove that you deliberately and fraudulently tried to capitalize on their name (although see my sig for some nasty examples of lawyers gone wild).
As the old saw goes, anyone can be sued for anything at any time, but aside from Monster cable most companies and people (and even some lawyers) are usually pretty reasonable when it comes to genuine misunderstandings and gray areas.
Cheers.
You are correct, Yep! I have only cut one cube from the base of the iceberg. There is more, much more. The Cliff Notes Version 1.0 will have to do for now. But, Germany is still Germany and the US is still the US. It will be awhile, if ever before these two bands stare down each other in any court, foreign or domestic. Regards.
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Spaceduck
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/07/27 08:03:56
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Thanks for all the great insight folks. It sounds like I don't need to worry unless I deliberately start passing myself off as them in Germany. Also, since we're both small timers, I don't think either band will fork out the lawyers fees to sue the other and/or make a big stink out of it. The Monster lawyers are busy enough for everyone. ORIGINAL: DreamzCatcher
The best solution is to talk with the other band, the one with the less audience and less songs should be nice and give up on the name, if they already 2 grown bands, then only money may help here.
Interestingly enough, there's a THIRD band in New Zealand who has the same name, too.  I've actually emailed them & had a nice chat. We plan to join forces one day and sing "We Are the World". But the German band bothers me. For one thing, I got an interesting piece of hate mail once to the effect of "You ztole our name you Strudelkopf!!" So I dunno about diplomatic relations there......
post edited by Spaceduck - 2007/07/27 08:05:09
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dmassey
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/07/30 00:25:26
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I will eventually have to deal with something similar. A release we did in 1975 (sold a whopping 2,000 copies) has turned up in several different bootlegs, including a German label. The german label is actually being sold on Amazon as an import (we're from Houston), but I suspect the sales are in double-digits at best.
There is no doubt that we would prevail in court, BUT it would cost lots of $$$ and the rewards are just not worth it at this time. IF our next (I know, 32 years later) release finds a market in Europe, I expect it might be a bit more of an issue. Ironically enough, we bootlegged the bootleg so we'd have a few copies to sell to our few fans that are not in retirement homes. The masters were destroyed in a fire, so that proved to be our best (and no-cost) source for a CD.
Registering your name, locally as a DBA, is a good idea.
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Jamz0r
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/07/30 00:31:56
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Hey Spaceduck, Could you drop me a line when you get a moment? 
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Spaceduck
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/07/30 10:10:00
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Hiya Jamz, line dropped!  @ dmassey Man, that's the funniest copyright-infringement story I've ever heard. See? It pays not to be a litigious a-hole! Someone should start a thread for all the people who've had their songs ripped off or bootlegged. This is interesting stuff. I played on an album way back in the (cough cough) 80s which I thought turned out really great.* But the band only printed 1000 copies, so it quickly vanished into obscurity. I've always toyed with the idea of releasing a "bootleg" from my personal copy. The masters are long gone by now, and I haven't been able to track down any of the original band members. Probably playing checkers in that old age home along with your old fans *edit: I mean to say the album turned out really great. The 80s is a different thing altogether.
post edited by Spaceduck - 2007/07/30 10:16:02
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dmassey
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/08/01 23:48:43
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Hey I remember the 80's, it's the 90's that I really don't want to remember (I was playing in country and blues bands during most of that decade). As long as no one mentions spandex and leg-warmers, I remember the 80's as.. well, I'll think about it.
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/08/02 22:29:48
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cut sweaters and big poofy perm hair? leather jackets, mesh muscle shirts and tight high-water pants? chewing gum, power ballads and glam rock? ronald reagan? (ok, i actually liked ronald, but i was only 8 years old...) that one annoying girl with the short hair that was in every 80's teenager flick? i'll take a pair of parachute pants and flannel shirt, with some soundgarden to go, please...
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Spaceduck
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/08/03 11:14:55
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ORIGINAL: jacktheexcynic
cut sweaters and big poofy perm hair? leather jackets, mesh muscle shirts and tight high-water pants? chewing gum, power ballads and glam rock? ronald reagan? (ok, i actually liked ronald, but i was only 8 years old...) that one annoying girl with the short hair that was in every 80's teenager flick? i'll take a pair of parachute pants and flannel shirt, with some soundgarden to go, please...
Thanks for that horrifying trip down memory lane. Now if you'll just hand me my Members Only jacket and Docksiders, I'll be outta here. Never mind the socks.
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: Two bands with the same name... who wins?
2007/08/03 22:14:07
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ORIGINAL: Spaceduck
Never mind the socks. knew i missed something!
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