kennywtelejazz
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Mesh
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/18 15:38:49
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That's quite sad for the independant musicians whom have depended on youtube to channel their music.
I hope there's alternative site that can be used. I personally found Youtube to be an excellent resource to find a fix/instructional video for "almost" anything.
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sharke
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/18 16:16:22
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Doesn't worry me in the slightest. They're just opening a new gap in the market which will be filled with something else. I would put money on plans being drawn up for a new freewheeling video streaming service as we speak.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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slartabartfast
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/18 17:44:50
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Actually the article is primarily focused, not on independent artists, but on independent labels. If they feel confident that they can screw indie record companies, then independent artists posting their own stuff are likely to just disappear from view. Looks like the old model of sieving new talent through the recording industry is having a revival on the internet. When you try to monetize music a gazillion unknown artists just add clutter to the system without producing much revenue for the amount of work and risk it takes to deal with them.
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jbow
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/18 19:29:42
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/18 23:58:42
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Mesh
That's quite sad for the independant musicians whom have depended on youtube to channel their music.
I hope there's alternative site that can be used. I personally found Youtube to be an excellent resource to find a fix/instructional video for "almost" anything.
+1 sharke
Doesn't worry me in the slightest. They're just opening a new gap in the market which will be filled with something else. I would put money on plans being drawn up for a new freewheeling video streaming service as we speak.
I'm not sure what they are doing and how it all will play out ……admittedly , I am concerned slartabartfast
Actually the article is primarily focused, not on independent artists, but on independent labels. If they feel confident that they can screw indie record companies, then independent artists posting their own stuff are likely to just disappear from view. Looks like the old model of sieving new talent through the recording industry is having a revival on the internet. When you try to monetize music a gazillion unknown artists just add clutter to the system without producing much revenue for the amount of work and risk it takes to deal with them.
that's the general vibe I'm getting  jbow
Great... sigh.
J
Yeah jbow , I feel you ….that was my initial reaction when I ran across this article Kenny
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Rain
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/19 01:26:09
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Sucks.
Didn't Yahoo just announce that they were about to launch their own version of YouTube?
I don't really use YouTube to find new music - and, anyway, in my case, more often than not, "new music" is just old music that I hadn't gotten into just yet. (Like my newly discovered passion for Southern Rock - man, that stuff definitely stroke a chord w/ me!)
Anyway, iTunes is usually my first option - if that fails, I google, uh, no, I Bing videos.
Back in the days, I used to read the thanks list in records - that's how we heard about new/unknown bands where I lived. Then we'd take a chance and order music by those bands without having an option to audition before.
I've somewhat adapted that method - a lot of the new music I discover these days I find through the "associated acts" on the wiki of bands that I like. But now, I can audition before I buy.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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sharke
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/19 01:36:21
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The best thing about YouTube IMO was always the audio quality. I could never understand the popularity of Soundcloud, for example, which streams music at a very lame 128kbps as MP3. YouTube now streams audio at 192kbps, provided the uploaded video has that quality available. And it's AAC encoded, which is vastly superior to MP3. Prior to 2014, the bitrate at which YouTube audio was streamed was dependent on the video quality selected, with 192kbps only being available at 720p or higher. But now they're streaming at 192kbps AAC regardless of the video quality selected. This makes sense of course because video has a higher bandwidth requirement than audio.
So I have no idea why so many people use Soundcloud to showcase their music. I've used it for short musical examples in forum posts before, but I don't think I would upload finished tracks there. You'd think they would increase their streaming quality given that music is their sole function.
It can only be a matter of time before someone launches something along the lines of YouTube and Soundcloud, for musicians, with a 320kbps streaming rate.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Rain
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/19 02:44:09
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sharke
The best thing about YouTube IMO was always the audio quality. I could never understand the popularity of Soundcloud, for example, which streams music at a very lame 128kbps as MP3. YouTube now streams audio at 192kbps, provided the uploaded video has that quality available. And it's AAC encoded, which is vastly superior to MP3. Prior to 2014, the bitrate at which YouTube audio was streamed was dependent on the video quality selected, with 192kbps only being available at 720p or higher. But now they're streaming at 192kbps AAC regardless of the video quality selected. This makes sense of course because video has a higher bandwidth requirement than audio.
So I have no idea why so many people use Soundcloud to showcase their music. I've used it for short musical examples in forum posts before, but I don't think I would upload finished tracks there. You'd think they would increase their streaming quality given that music is their sole function.
It can only be a matter of time before someone launches something along the lines of YouTube and Soundcloud, for musicians, with a 320kbps streaming rate.
There must be something I'm doing wrong because my YouTube vids sound pretty bad compared to the stuff I've uploaded on Facebook. Same source file has HD option on FB - on YouTube, it's compressed w/o me having an option.. So if I had a choice, FB would win. :/
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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spacealf
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/19 03:04:56
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gswitz
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/19 06:38:44
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It's sad to see the cinch keep tightening.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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bitflipper
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/19 09:49:20
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Interesting that Psy made $2,000,000 from YouTube ads. No wonder Google wants to tap into that. How ironic that Google's motto is " don't be evil" -- the company founded by idealists who quickly sold out to advertisers, the NSA and the Chinese government as soon they got a taste of serious money. If it really is the root of all evil then it's inevitable then that Google would become evil. Even before Google had become the leading search engine, they'd already started manipulating search results to favor corporate interests who would pay them. Chrome has a handy extension for blocking certain domains - except it prohibits you from blocking any site that has paid Google's fees. They don't just go along with the NSA, they are active collaborators. Unlike the NSA, though, Google makes the vast amounts of information they've collected about you available for purchase. But at least they don't control my telephone...oh wait, they do.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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bitflipper
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/19 10:07:41
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A humorous anecdote from slashdot to lighten the mood... I make nature videos for my YouTube channel, generally in remote wilderness away from any possible source of music. And I purposely avoid using a soundtrack in my videos because of all the horror stories I hear about Rumblefish filing claims against public domain music. But when uploading my latest video, YouTube informed me that I was using Rumblefish's copyrighted content, and so ads would be placed on my video, with the proceeds going to said company. This baffled me. I disputed their claim with YouTube's system — and Rumblefish refuted my dispute, and asserted that: 'All content owners have reviewed your video and confirmed their claims to some or all of its content: Entity: rumblefish; Content Type: Musical Composition.' So I asked some questions, and it appears that the birds singing in the background of my video are Rumblefish's exclusive intellectual property.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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craigb
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/19 11:02:30
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bitflipper
A humorous anecdote from slashdot to lighten the mood...
I make nature videos for my YouTube channel, generally in remote wilderness away from any possible source of music. And I purposely avoid using a soundtrack in my videos because of all the horror stories I hear about Rumblefish filing claims against public domain music. But when uploading my latest video, YouTube informed me that I was using Rumblefish's copyrighted content, and so ads would be placed on my video, with the proceeds going to said company. This baffled me. I disputed their claim with YouTube's system — and Rumblefish refuted my dispute, and asserted that: 'All content owners have reviewed your video and confirmed their claims to some or all of its content: Entity: rumblefish; Content Type: Musical Composition.' So I asked some questions, and it appears that the birds singing in the background of my video are Rumblefish's exclusive intellectual property.
That doesn't sound humorous, that sounds scary, sad and infuriating.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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spacealf
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/19 12:57:54
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Starise
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/19 14:08:32
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How many serious music listeners would use youtube over Pandora, Spotify or any one of the other big music streaming services? Maybe someone who is super big into music videos? I think the majority of people who listen to music on a commute aren't going to have the time to watch a music video.They are going after another kind of consumer here.
If youtube adopts a video free service then maybe they are on the same playing field....
Music for money..not music for art sake has been the motto for a long long time. Does money drive art or does art drive money? Art has been expression exploited. Is art created for the soul purpose of money really art in a real sense? or is it some kind of a compromise? Art has become a product instead of an expression.If art generates income for the artist, no different than making money from anything else..the key thing being, the art came first for the sake of itself, and then came the money...not the same as attempting art as a product line...people buy it, but what does that prove? That we can commercialize it, and for someone who's main goal is money that's all that matters.Artists and greedy monopolists are a seedy mix.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
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slartabartfast
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/19 16:42:50
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It looks like the issue of ads on copyrighted content submissions is a bit more complicated than it looks. Rumblefish explains that the ads are a Google fee (presumably kicking back some portion to Rumblefish/Friendly Music) that they collect because there is copyrighted content, not because there is copyright infringement. So if you have bought a synchronization license for your video music, that license will immunize you from copyright infringement, and presumably also from the DMCA requirement that the copyright owner can demand Google take down your infringing video (which makes no money for either Google or Friendly), but it has no bearing on whether Google, as a matter of policy explained in the user agreement you accept, will choose to post the ads and share the revenue with others. That policy benefits the copyright holders because they can make money from the "broadcast" of their music, even if they have already been paid a license for its use. And if the music is infringing it gives them a payment for a very low cost, as opposed to a DMCA takedown notice or an infringement lawsuit, which are only worth the money if you are seriously hurting their profits from competition. Of course the payment is also probably pretty low (who responds to these ads anyway?) so the system only makes sense if it can be automated. And if you cast your robot music fishing net wide enough to catch birds singing in the background, and make it even moderately difficult to contest a claim, you are going to collect ad revenue for singing birds from a lot of videos because people will not bother, or will not be able to afford to fight. http://www.rumblefish.com/id/youtube-content-id.php Presumably the money that is collected as a result of "errors" in this system is distributed to Rumblefish clients, who probably do not include anonymous birds, or to the company profits if those clients can't be found.
post edited by slartabartfast - 2014/06/19 16:43:57
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spacealf
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/19 21:32:36
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"Interesting that Psy made $2,000,000 from YouTube ads." 2 billion (over) hits. How they count that if watching IP addresses? 7 billion people in the world - how many kids? 4 billion kids - 2 billion adults - that is about 6 billion just there. Everyone had a different IP address? (no I am not sure how they count there at utub). Just seems bogus to me then. Multiple hits to run up the count that is not suppose to happen. Find it hard to believe even for a half a minute.  Some people probably found a way around it, and hacked in some numbers on the side.Well? To me Bogus! ?? A billion hits on one song by Bieber whatever his name is. You know, parents should know what their children are doing. I think those kids may need more schooling more than anything.
post edited by spacealf - 2014/06/19 21:34:05
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Rain
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/20 15:37:43
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Starise
How many serious music listeners would use youtube...
I think that "serious" music listeners are a minority. ;) It seems that at some point YouTube became THE media hub where people went to find just about anything - from old commercials, to the theme of that TV show they watched as a kid to any music they may like. Whether there's an official video or even if it's just a fan made clip or just a black screen with the song title... It doesn't really matter. Looking back, even way back, it seems to have become an integral part of practically every private party/social gathering I was going to - at some point, we'd reach that part of the evening where people would gather around the computer and start searching stuff on YouTube. Everybody is familiar with it, unlike Pandora and the others. I do consider myself a serious listener and I've never had any interest in Spotify and the likes. But then, I'm an old school, album-type of guy, and I don't often just go looking for new music just for the sake of it - and when I do, my searches are usually a bit more focused and my intention is to find an album and buy it.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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paulo
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/20 15:59:51
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Couldn't give a rat's arse to be honest. If YT ceases to be what I use it for, then I won't use it any more. Simples.
Google's ownership has already ruined it to some extent anyway IMO, but at the end of the day they, or anyone else, are not obliged to provide a free platform for other people to promote themselves, so I don't get why anyone should feel that anything they do is "unfair".
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spacealf
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/20 16:16:15
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sharke
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/20 17:01:17
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paulo
Couldn't give a rat's arse to be honest. If YT ceases to be what I use it for, then I won't use it any more. Simples.
Google's ownership has already ruined it to some extent anyway IMO, but at the end of the day they, or anyone else, are not obliged to provide a free platform for other people to promote themselves, so I don't get why anyone should feel that anything they do is "unfair".
Quite. The trouble is that there comes a point when something becomes so widely used that people start looking upon it as some kind of publicly owned resource that they have a "right" to. Why don't these snubbed artists pool their money and come up with an alternative video site?
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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dubdisciple
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/20 17:58:43
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I agree with sharke. As crappy as this is, it just opens up more opportunities. YouTube has steadily gone down hill anywany since Google acquired it.
The idea that serious music listeners don't use YouTube is false. The thing I like about YouTube is one of the things that will likely disapear, the ability to find music difficult to find anywhere else. Music only exists on Spotify, Pandora, etc to the degree someone can monotize that music. If a song is not on some distributor's catalog forget finding it on another service.
YouTube's contribution to current culture is its value in world scale attention whoring. The moment this ability is too crippled, other social networks will pick up slack.
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craigb
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/20 22:43:39
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When I'm checking out some new music (truly "new" or just new to me), I only use YouTube, so that's my take. I've never even used Pandora or Spotify.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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sharke
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/20 22:51:38
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Spotify is quite good for finding new music - if you're listening to a track you like, you can click to start a radio station "based" on that track. You'll get loads more tracks of approximately the same vibe. I'm not sure how it's worked out but I've found loads of new stuff like this. There are also Spotify apps you can load up, like Pitchfork, which are great ways to find new bands as well.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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craigb
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/20 23:45:19
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Hmm... Sounds interesting! I'll have to give that a try (except that I have SOOOOOO much great new music that I've been exposed to over the last couple of years, I probably need to spend more time with that first - hehe...).
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Rain
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/21 00:05:53
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This has got me wondering about the urge to discover new music - almost as if music was disposable or if there was a race or a challenge or something...
I've always enjoyed discovering new bands, but, there used to be some pretty severe limitation as to just how much music you could discover in a week. And while I loved to discover new bands, I also wore out my vinyls and tapes.
Nowadays, I'm potentially unwillingly exposed to 1000 times more new music than I ever was when I was looking.
Personally, I still love it when I can find a record that I can listen to over and over again - because that's what music was always all about for me. I want it to become part of my life, just like Ozzy's Diary of a Madman or KISS Alive. Those albums weren't just good - they meant something to me. This puts certain restrictions on my ability to discover new music.
Few recent albums seem to work like that for me, but every now and then, I find a gem or an undiscovered treasure from the past. And then, there's still tons of music which I am aware of but haven't got the time to listen to.
Honestly, I feel it'd be much sadder thing if I didn't get to really familiarize myself with the work of certain classical composers than to miss on a few dozens of pop or rock bands.
To each his own I guess. :)
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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craigb
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/21 00:13:38
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Although I agree about 98%, as I've been OD'ing on new music, I've definitely found a few that made me stop and play an album over and over. There was just "something" about them that was different for me. Republic Tigers - Keep Color, Magenta (the Norway Magenta) - Art & Accidents, Djam Karet - The Trip and a few others (including several albums from Eloy). I probably never would have discovered any of these if members of this forum and other forums hadn't mentioned them and YouBoob didn't have the albums to listen to... One forum I'm in we make it a requirement to include a YouBoob link if possible.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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bitflipper
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/21 10:06:09
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Finding new music that I like is such a rare occurrence that when it happens it's like Christmas morning when I was 8 years old.
But my real passion is finding old music that I either didn't know about or didn't pay attention to when it was current. Such gems can be purchased on CD for $4 to $10, so even though I primarily listen on a portable MP3 player I also have a hard-copy backup in a shoebox if I ever need it. I don't usually buy MP3s and I will never store my purchases "in the cloud", thank you very much. Having a CD also means I can rip a high-quality version of a song to use as a mix reference.
I really wanted Pandora Radio to be a resource, but it doesn't work well for me. Not enough indie music there, too much emphasis on "hit songs", and the association algorithm is often laughably bad. Same for YouTube, come to think of it.
I've actually gotten more referrals from Coffee House posts than any other source. Maybe it's just because all you old geezers have similar tastes to my own. Maybe it's time for another "list your favorite bands nobody knows about" thread.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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sharke
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Re: U Tube is about to delete Independent Artists from it's site …..Forbes article …..
2014/06/21 11:20:39
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I think YouTube's "suggested" algorithm went downhill after Google took it over. Used to be a time when all of those videos on the right hand column would be associated with the one you were watching in interesting, meaningful ways. Now they're sticking in a lot more videos which are based on your viewing history, as well as other videos from the YouTube user who uploaded the video you're watching (regardless of how unrelated they may be). So the results are much less interesting. I remember spending hours surfing through those suggests videos - now it's much less insightful.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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