Kroneborge
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UAD 2 vs new sound card
So my birthday is coming up, and I'm debating what to get. I was planning on getting a UAD 2 quad, but now I'm thinking of replacing my audio interface (EMU 1820m). They really don't maintain the EMU anymore, my windows 7 drivers are still on beta, and while it usually works ok for music, it sometimes crackles then shuts down when I video game (yes same comptuter, I'm not buying two). Anyway, thoughts on which to get, also if sound card which one? I don't need a bunch of ins or outs because I hardly ever record, and when I do, it's just one vocal. Thanks,
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Guitarpima
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/14 20:54:38
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To me that's a no brainer. Get a new AI. UAD has the Apollo interface with either a duo or quad built in. I don't know if it works with Sonar well but it looks amazing. Of course, it means a bit more than the quad. There are interfaces out there for the price of the quad, RME, that are excellent.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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ohgrant
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/14 21:19:18
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As for gaming, to be honest don't expect to not have issues with some games with any pro audio card. That has been my observation at least. IMO just use one of these while you're gaming and unplug it when not gaming would be my suggestion. I would grab that quad also.
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vintagevibe
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/14 22:51:40
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Forget UAD. I just sold mine with all the plugs. It's an expensive dongle that keeps you from running as many instances as you want to. My other plugs are all as good or better and I can run as many as I need. The TRacks compressors blow away my UAD ones. UAD was one of the best solutions years ago but now they are just beating a dead horse.
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AT
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/15 00:10:24
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Although I'm more in vintagevibe's camp - there are plenty of pros that make more money than me that swear by UAD.
But if you are having crashes etc. by unsupported hardware, well, partner, I suppose it is time to get a new interface.
I think it is Martin Walker who used the emu as his "bog standard" interface comparison - he found the TC Konnekt series better. The TCK 6, I think. I can't tell you what to buy - that is your decision and how much you want to pay for it. I'd get something else before I sprang for the UAD. You can always add that latter, but if you are having difficulties hearing or recording, all the DSP in the world won't right that wrong. The UAD Apollo seems like good kit and includes the DSP which would seem a no-brainer, except it has more in/outs than you need. Of course, you never know and I'd rather have the ins and not need them than need them and not have it - even once a year. And I'm definately of the opinion to get the best hardware you can so you don't replace it for that last few percentage of sound.
Good luck.
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bapu
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/15 11:38:18
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I cannot recommend RME interfaces highly enough.
I cannot recommend UAD Quad highly enough. Is it an expensive dongle? Yeah, but I don't care. I have two quads and I can run more than enough UAD plugs. They do have some very nice plugs. Helios, EMT 140 & 250, Pulteq, Precision series, Studer tape....
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vintagevibe
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/15 12:20:44
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bapu
I cannot recommend RME interfaces highly enough.
I cannot recommend UAD Quad highly enough. Is it an expensive dongle? Yeah, but I don't care. I have two quads and I can run more than enough UAD plugs. They do have some very nice plugs. Helios, EMT 140 & 250, Pulteq, Precision series, Studer tape....
With 2 Quads you should be fine but the expense-to-plugin ration is seriously out of whack. For high budget studio users it may still make sense. If you were just starting out and had no plug-ins would you go with UAD or Waves? The UAD Octo goes for $1500 without any plugs (to speak of). For $1200 you could get WAVES Platinum Bundle with 40 plugs. Not to say UAD isn't good ... its just way overpriced.
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wst3
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/15 13:14:12
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I don't think that UA plug-ins are over priced. I wish they were cheaper, but I (grudgingly) acknowledge that they are worth the asking prices - especially if you are patient and wait for the sales.
I think a bigger problem is that we've all made the tools we use into commodities. I think that's a big mistake, and will spell doom for some companies that can't compete in the commodity space.
UA chooses not to follow that path, and I think it is a good for them, and ultimately, for me.
There are a handful of companies that make what I'd call world-class plug-ins...
(please keep in mind that these are my opinions, they are not facts!)
UA makes the best hardware emulations, hands down. (The PSP Lexicon 42 is convincing, but I have this sneaking suspicion that if UA emulated the 42 it'd be way cool.)
Waves has the widest range of plug-ins, they cover emulations, which I haven't purchased, but I love their take on compression, equalization, and effects. I have owned their Gold collection since it was called Native I and II - and used a parallel port dongle<G>!
PSP Audioware makes terrific delays, both modeled and more modern takes on the concept.
Voxengo has a wonderful suite of tools, some of which approach emulation, but they do quite a bit more.
One other thing these companies have in common is that none of them have gone the dirt-cheap road. Waves has, recently, undercut their pricing a bit, and I'm sorry to see that, but they probably know what they are doing - they've been around for a long time!
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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vintagevibe
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/15 13:53:47
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UA makes the best hardware emulations, hands down. wst3
I don't think that UA plug-ins are over priced. I wish they were cheaper, but I (grudgingly) acknowledge that they are worth the asking prices - especially if you are patient and wait for the sales.
I think a bigger problem is that we've all made the tools we use into commodities. I think that's a big mistake, and will spell doom for some companies that can't compete in the commodity space.
UA chooses not to follow that path, and I think it is a good for them, and ultimately, for me.
There are a handful of companies that make what I'd call world-class plug-ins...
(please keep in mind that these are my opinions, they are not facts!)
UA makes the best hardware emulations, hands down. (The PSP Lexicon 42 is convincing, but I have this sneaking su****ion that if UA emulated the 42 it'd be way cool.)
Waves has the widest range of plug-ins, they cover emulations, which I haven't purchased, but I love their take on compression, equalization, and effects. I have owned their Gold collection since it was called Native I and II - and used a parallel port dongle<G>!
PSP Audioware makes terrific delays, both modeled and more modern takes on the concept.
Voxengo has a wonderful suite of tools, some of which approach emulation, but they do quite a bit more.
One other thing these companies have in common is that none of them have gone the dirt-cheap road. Waves has, recently, undercut their pricing a bit, and I'm sorry to see that, but they probably know what they are doing - they've been around for a long time!
IMO everything else I use regularly is as good or better than UAD. "best hardware emulations, hands down" is subjective and debatable. Dirt cheap is about perception and not about quality. If I can buy dirt cheap plugs as good or better than UAD then dirt cheap is the logical choice. If I want a great LA2A emulation the newer UAD version are good quality but it will cost $450 for a solo card and the plug. And I will be limited in how many instances I can use. I have several other choices that will cost me +/- $100 and I will be able to use as my instances as I can possibly need. For me that's argument over.
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wst3
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/15 15:51:12
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vintagevibe
IMO everything else I use regularly is as good or better than UAD. "best hardware emulations, hands down" is subjective and debatable. Dirt cheap is about perception and not about quality. If I can buy dirt cheap plugs as good or better than UAD then dirt cheap is the logical choice. If I want a great LA2A emulation the newer UAD version are good quality but it will cost $450 for a solo card and the plug. And I will be limited in how many instances I can use. I have several other choices that will cost me +/- $100 and I will be able to use as my instances as I can possibly need. For me that's argument over. Please re-read my post... I stated very clearly that it was my opinion. Specifically, I said:
(please keep in mind that these are my opinions, they are not facts!)
Here's the thing, I've tried a bunch of plug-ins that emulate hardware. Some used DSP accelerators, some didn't. And the prices ranged from free to nearly painful. I also spent almost ten years repairing or refurbishing hardware, including quite a few LA-4's and 1176's, 1178's, and even a few BL-40's (guess they were just getting popular again.) I really doubt that any two of them sounded exactly alike. But they did share certain 'signature' qualities. To my ears (which are much abused, I'll confess), nothing gets as close to the vibe as the UA models of these devices. Now my studio is no where near good enough to hear much of a difference between the original plug-ins and the recent ones. So I have not invested in the newer plug-ins yet. Part of the equation is how the controls react to your input, and how the processing reacts to your program material. I think that's probably a big part of the equation. But the single most important thing is that I like them, and therefore I bought them. No one else needs to like them, or buy them. Music production, like music, is highly subjective, and when someone comes to a forum to ask a subjective question they need to expect subjective answers. And those answers will almost certainly cover a lot of the bases. One of the biggest disadvantages of the UA family of plug-ins is that you must buy into the hardware in order to demo them. Once you do, well, then you are set, but it's a huge investment, and a huge risk for the purchaser. But with the demise of local music stores it is nearly impossible to demo anything anymore, so we come to public forums and ask questions, in the hopes that at least one answer will resonate! FTR, I was able to demo the UAD-1, back when it was sold by Mackie, at my local music store. They had a great production room where you could audition microphones, preamplifiers, processors, software, libraries, etc. I really miss that, since back then I had a chance to make a more informed decision. And sometimes they let me take stuff home to try it - not software, but microphones and loudspeakers were fair game!
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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vintagevibe
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/15 16:06:14
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wst3
But the single most important thing is that I like them, and therefore I bought them.
I know you stated your opinion and I wasn't trying to be overly argumentative. The above quote says it all and, of course, is all that really matters. I have a high opinion of UAD plugs but it really annoys me the way they've held on to this outdated marketing model.
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ohgrant
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/15 16:12:14
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If I recall, Matt already is a UAD owner and knows what he's getting into upgrading to a quad.
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wst3
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/15 20:02:17
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vintagevibe
wst3
But the single most important thing is that I like them, and therefore I bought them. I know you stated your opinion and I wasn't trying to be overly argumentative. The above quote says it all and, of course, is all that really matters. I have a high opinion of UAD plugs but it really annoys me the way they've held on to this outdated marketing model. AH! Guess I misunderstood... As far as the outdated marketing model, well, I have mixed thoughts. On the one hand I have yet to run out of processing power, so the cards aren't a huge imposition. On another hand, yeah, it'd be cool if I didn't have to worry about it at all, and just let native processing power determine the limits. (aside - a friend of mine used to work at UA. He claims, and I believe him, that the newer plug-ins would take a serious bite out of processing power on all but the fastest general purpose CPUs. They code their plug-ins to leverage some of the special features found only on the DSP chips, things like multiply and accumulate are actual opcodes on those chips. BUT, as general purpose chips become faster that aspect could become less of a factor. On the third hand, well, the accelerator, necessary or not, provides a very strong deterrent to piracy. Since they don't have to worry about piracy they can focus their energy on writing cool new plug-ins. So until a pair of octos (yeah, in my dreams) runs out of horsepower I guess I won't complain.
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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vintagevibe
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/17 19:34:32
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wst3
On the third hand, well, the accelerator, necessary or not, provides a very strong deterrent to piracy. Since they don't have to worry about piracy they can focus their energy on writing cool new plug-ins.
If you think of it that way you are spending hundreds or (thousands) of dollars beyond the plugs just for anti piracy! That makes it seem like even a worse deal than before!
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wst3
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/17 20:44:09
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That would be one way to look at things, but I thought I was fairly clear - I buy, and use UA plug-ins because, to my ears, and based on my experience with the hardware, I think they sound better than any other emulation plug-ins. I do not begrudge UA their accelerator card - I've written DSP code in the past, and I have to wonder if their code would actually run better on a general purpose CPU. In fact I doubt it.
The fact that their emulations sound different (I didn't say better or worse) than emulations that run native suggests that there is a reason for the DSP chips, and their specialized instruction sets.
That the card protects my investment in them, and their investment in themselves is really a serendipitous bit.
Bill
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/18 10:49:29
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So my birthday is coming up, and I'm debating what to get. I was planning on getting a UAD 2 quad, but now I'm thinking of replacing my audio interface (EMU 1820m). They really don't maintain the EMU anymore, my windows 7 drivers are still on beta, and while it usually works ok for music, it sometimes crackles then shuts down when I video game (yes same computer, I'm not buying two). Anyway, thoughts on which to get, also if sound card which one? I don't need a bunch of ins or outs because I hardly ever record, and when I do, it's just one vocal. Thanks, IMO, It makes sense to focus on fundamentals first. UAD plugins are good... but if you're having issues with your audio interface, I'd address that first. The 1820m was a great unit... and it's too bad its too bad it's been abandoned (for all intents/purpose). If you have the budget, you can't beat RME audio interfaces. Rock-solid... and good sound On more of a budget, the new VSL units from Presonus are nice. MOTU "hybrid" units are also good
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vintagevibe
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/18 11:19:14
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Jim Roseberry
IMO, It makes sense to focus on fundamentals first.
UAD plugins are good... but if you're having issues with your audio interface, I'd address that first.
The 1820m was a great unit... and it's too bad its too bad it's been abandoned (for all intents/purpose).
If you have the budget, you can't beat RME audio interfaces.
Rock-solid... and good sound
On more of a budget, the new VSL units from Presonus are nice.
MOTU "hybrid" units are also good
I'd have to add the new Roland units to the list. The pre-amps on my Quad-Capture are very noticeable a step up in clarity from my Echo Audiofire Pre8 (or any other interface I have owned). Latency and stability are top notch. Very professional units. The newest one has 12 of those sweet pres if you need that many. Can't say enough good things about the current Roland line.
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Kroneborge
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/18 12:53:29
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My audio interface is fine when in Sonar, it only gives problems in game.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/18 21:30:11
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I'd have to add the new Roland units to the list. The pre-amps on my Quad-Capture are very noticeable a step up in clarity from my Echo Audiofire Pre8 (or any other interface I have owned). Latency and stability are top notch. Very professional units. The newest one has 12 of those sweet pres if you need that many. Can't say enough good things about the current Roland line. The Roland units are very good... I just wish you could get RTL @ or below the 6ms mark. Doesn't make a huge difference for many folks... but for me it's a bit of a sticking point.
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ohgrant
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/19 17:49:04
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Kroneborge
My audio interface is fine when in Sonar, it only gives problems in game.
In that case, I would go with the USB gaming card and unplug it when not gaming. Just like a game card is not a good choice for pro audio. Pro audio cards are not a good choice for gaming. On some games, lowering the audio quality in the game setup will give you better stability but some games really need the extra components a game card has or it has to be rendered in software resulting in poor game performance and or audio dropouts during game play Edit: To be clear, lowering the audio quality in the game setup, if an option will probably be enough to get you by. It gets me by and I really don't hear a difference when gaming with it down a few notches. IMO a new driver for your current card or a new pro audio card will most likely not improve your game play.
post edited by ohgrant - 2013/03/19 20:31:09
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vintagevibe
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/19 22:06:28
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Jim Roseberry
I'd have to add the new Roland units to the list. The pre-amps on my Quad-Capture are very noticeable a step up in clarity from my Echo Audiofire Pre8 (or any other interface I have owned). Latency and stability are top notch. Very professional units. The newest one has 12 of those sweet pres if you need that many. Can't say enough good things about the current Roland line.
The Roland units are very good...
I just wish you could get RTL @ or below the 6ms mark.
Doesn't make a huge difference for many folks... but for me it's a bit of a sticking point.
In what situations do you actually hear that?
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sven450
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/20 09:47:08
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As for the game thing, I (like others) run two audio interfaces with no problems what so ever. I have an Octacapture for Sonar (which I really like), and I have a cheesy onboard 5.1 sound card for everything else. I have never had a single issue.
I am an all-in-one computer guy as well. Works perfectly if you just deselect the onboard card in Sonar's preferences.
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Kroneborge
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/20 13:12:25
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I will look into a cheapy sound card for gaming. my sound will start to crackle, and then eventually freeze the computer on both starcraft and the new sim city, which is super annoying. Now I just need to find a consumer card with quarter inch outs, lol
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sven450
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/20 14:19:55
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Just to clarify, for ease I have seperate speakers for all the gaming, You Tube-y stuff. That way, there is no switching of cards, changing of preferences or anything annoying. Octacapture into Equator D5s, then onboard card into some sort of cheap 5.1 set I grabbed at Best Buy. Games in 5.1 are awesome!
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ohgrant
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/20 16:13:50
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Kroneborge
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/26 13:25:08
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Sure I suppose that would work...
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ohgrant
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Re:UAD 2 vs new sound card
2013/03/26 19:43:05
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One thing I forgot, if you get one and it comes with a driver disk, I would not install it, Windows will have a generic driver that will work just fine with it. I use one in my other PC that I have my M-audio card in. When I plug it in, it becomes the default audio device for the games, when I unplug it I'm ready to record with no additional setup needed in Sonar or Windows.
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