Frank Haas
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 13:13:57
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If you do a straight conversion you would take 179 USD and add VAT you get 210 dollars after re-writing this post several times, and doing a lot of math, I think I am now starting to understand this calculation.. So if I order from the european-distributor (Ireland) then Cakewalk has already taken care of 19% VAT and to some point shipping costs.. 149€ incl. VAT seems therefore to be a very fair price.. It's so good that I don't see a reason to buy it in the states while I am there next month  it only seems, as been before several times, that the US customers are able to take advantage of another special, which is not a part of the european shop Buy SONAR 8 Producer through October 30th and get the entire E-MU Proteus Pack for Dimension Pro for only $149--save 50% off the regular price of $299. Just add it to your cart along with your upgrade and use coupon code: SONAR8 not that I would need it. EDIT part of the math(for germany): if I import a product from America, I'd have to pay 19% VAT on the border (customs).. The customs not only calculate the 19% VAT on the product itself but also on the shipping costs !!! those are easily at about 90-100USD.. i.e. 179USD(Sonar8 upgr.)+100USD(shipping)+19%VAT(on both!) = 332USD
post edited by Frank Haas - 2008/09/22 13:22:38
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Mr. Ease
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 13:26:13
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ORIGINAL: Gerry
Sorry Robin I am suggesting that VAT and exchange rates are always used to explain the hike or price difference. Yet your VAT never appears seperately on your invoice nor does you VAT number. You see as a business if it did I could claim it back but as it doesn't or hasn't in the past I can't. Bottom line I am most certainly suggesting that European pricing and USA pricing are more about what each market will support and distribution considerations rather than pure VAT, import/export, exchange rate issues but like I said before you take your choice if you want it buy it, if you don't don't.
Just a few things about VAT. Within the EU any supplier charging VAT MUST itemise it on the bill and be VAT registered. Therefore any VAT registered business can claim it back as an input tax. If this is not the case, Cake should be made aware that they are contravening EU rules on VAT. Added to that the VAT charged can be at the supplying countries rate OR the receiving countries rate but the latter requires supply to a VAT registered company in the receiving country. The bottom line is that non VAT registered customers within the EU will pay the Irish VAT rate of 17.5%. For VAT registered customers they can claim the input tax at whatever rate it is applied, so it makes sense for Cake to charge the single rate of 17.5% to all EU customers as they will ultimately no better or worse off than otherwise. What is important though is that VAT registered customers wishing to reclaim VAT should receive a proper VAT invoice. Finally, if shipped from the US, you will be charged VAT as it comes through customs (together with any possible duty). If you are VAT registered, you will receive a certificate from the VAT office so VAT can be reclaimed. Bottom line, unless you buy in the US and "grey" import yourself or via a friend you will pay VAT at 17.5%. If you "grey" import you will also run the risk of the customs men picking up your package and charging VAT AND a "fine/duty" charge. I remember many years ago upgrading to Cakewalk Pro 4 for DOS together with a MIDI interface "deal" they ran. This was ordered by phone (no internet back then) and sent by Cakewalk directly. It came in normal post, which often eludes the customs men - but not always - in that case I got stung for VAT plus, IIRC even more in duty!
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Wookiee
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 13:42:22
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UK Customers go check this site etcetera next week you may just be supprised, sorry you still have to pay VAT and shipping but it would appear to be cheaper than the main UK supplier.
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Twigman
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/23 13:00:49
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Can CW answer us this question please
Why won't cakewalk publish their EU VAT registration number and supply proper VAT invoices?
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Fog
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/23 13:06:49
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Wookiee, if it's cheaper than DV.. then I get them to price match if I go ahead
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Wookiee
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/23 14:15:14
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Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
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Fog
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/23 14:23:36
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thanks John, I did reply but ya PM box is full.. they will match the price you get quoted but also inc cost of postage.
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Wookiee
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/23 14:32:04
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Thanks, I did not realise the PM box was soooooo small cleared now.
And thanks for the heads up re DV
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
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Gerry
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/23 14:35:57
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ORIGINAL: Twigman
Can CW answer us this question please
Why won't cakewalk publish their EU VAT registration number and supply proper VAT invoices?
I admire your tenacity Twigman but Cake has been tap dancing around this one for a long time which indicates they do not have an answer. They admit they collect it and pay it to the government and that is why we in Europe pay more yet sidestep the question that you, I and several others have asked. From where I sit in southern Spain if an invoice does not show VAT (IVA as it is called here) then the product is not required to have VAT applied. As we are informed by Cake this not the case and they are collecting it then your question points a very big finger. As the only way they can demonstrate they do actually collect it is to show the amount and of course their VAT number to legitamise it on an invoice. I suppose the simple answer or solution is to purchase from a Distributor who will supply a legit invoice, at least we can declare it on our returns and in my case claim it back.
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drmathprog
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/23 14:51:36
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Maybe the UK version is actually 25% better the the US version, in which case you come out 2% ahead! 
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Twigman
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/23 17:50:59
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ORIGINAL: Gerry
I suppose the simple answer or solution is to purchase from a Distributor who will supply a legit invoice, at least we can declare it on our returns and in my case claim it back.
When I pressed on this last year that is the solution Cakewalk themselves offered. That can only mean one thing in my mind and that the web pricing does not include VAT and is set so as to not undercut local distributors and that Cakewalk US are not paying a cent in EU VAT. What other explanation can there be? Surely they would be happy to disclose their VAT registration and comply with VAT legislation?
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fitzj
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/24 03:51:19
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After reading the amount of changes done in sonar 8. I am happy to pay my £119 upgrade price.
Well done Cakewalk.
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Jonbouy
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/24 04:11:28
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ORIGINAL: Twigman
ORIGINAL: Gerry
I suppose the simple answer or solution is to purchase from a Distributor who will supply a legit invoice, at least we can declare it on our returns and in my case claim it back.
When I pressed on this last year that is the solution Cakewalk themselves offered.
That can only mean one thing in my mind and that the web pricing does not include VAT and is set so as to not undercut local distributors and that Cakewalk US are not paying a cent in EU VAT.
What other explanation can there be? Surely they would be happy to disclose their VAT registration and comply with VAT legislation?
Unless they are based in the EU of course they won't be VAT registered but if I remember rightly there is some excise form that you used to have to declare the sales to the UK and pay the extra Customs and Excise used to collect, at least from my recall that's how it used to work. Don't forget VAT is the domain of Customs and Excise not the Inland Revenue. Of course if UK orders are being fulfilled from an EU based distributor then they WILL be VAT registered and you will be able to claim it back. I think you will find though that downloads or direct export will be subject to some duty from our good ol' gov't even if it is an aggregated payment made periodically. And it makes perfect business sense not to undercut your own distribution network if you are trying to sell a product the alternative is called suicide. (or Dell) CAVEAT EMPTOR applies here as its down to the buyer to get the best deal, which is true with anything being sold on the international market not just Sonar.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2008/09/24 04:23:18
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LostChord
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/24 04:31:42
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Just out of curiosity, and recollecting some suggestions that went around when some taxes on software were implemented in OZ away back when, does VAT apply to second hand - aka used - items? If I can't return an item - software - once the seal on the box is broken then presumably it is used.... so there could be a market here
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Twigman
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/24 04:33:22
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ORIGINAL: Jonbouy
ORIGINAL: Twigman
ORIGINAL: Gerry
I suppose the simple answer or solution is to purchase from a Distributor who will supply a legit invoice, at least we can declare it on our returns and in my case claim it back.
When I pressed on this last year that is the solution Cakewalk themselves offered.
That can only mean one thing in my mind and that the web pricing does not include VAT and is set so as to not undercut local distributors and that Cakewalk US are not paying a cent in EU VAT.
What other explanation can there be? Surely they would be happy to disclose their VAT registration and comply with VAT legislation?
Unless they are based in the EU of course they won't be VAT registered but if I remember rightly there is some excise form that you used to have to declare the sales to the UK and pay the extra Customs and Excise used to collect, at least from my recall that's how it used to work. Don't forget VAT is the domain of Customs and Excise not the Inland Revenue.
Cakewalk say themselves that the EU web pricing includes VAT http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.asp?m=1493397 and http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.asp?m=1493439 but are unwilling to disclose their EU VAT registration number or itemise VAT on their invoices. It stinks.
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Skyline_UK
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/24 04:47:35
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Guys, please refer to my posts earlier. Cakewalk themselves have nothing to do with VAT, being a US company, but they choose to distribute out of the Republic of Ireland, part of the EU. Cakewalk are not doing anything wrong or shifty. Ordering in the UK from Cakewalk online actually means you'll be sent the product from Eire by their distributor there and charged VAT. That distributor then accounts to the Irish government for the VAT accordingly. If you are VAT registered you can reclaim it remembering to put the relevant figures in boxes 4 and 9 of your VAT Return when you do so. This route is more efficient and economical for Cakewalk than fulfilling all orders direct from the US. If they did that then they would not charge VAT but we'd be clobbered on receipt for VAT, Duties and Taxes, AND VAT on the Duties and Taxes! I know whereof I speak as for a number of years I was Financial Director of Federal Express UK.
Note: Actually, I order stuff from the US from time to time and if it comes via Royal Mail and is VAT-able/Duty-able they often don't bother to collect. I think this varies around the country though, depending on manning levels, etc. The courier companies tend to have better systems for administering this.
John
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Twigman
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/24 04:50:01
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ORIGINAL: Skyline_UK
Guys, please refer to my posts earlier. Cakewalk themselves have nothing to do with VAT, being a US company, but they choose to distribute out of the Republic of Ireland, part of the EU. Cakewalk are not doing anything wrong or shifty. Ordering in the UK from Cakewalk online actually means you'll be sent the product from Eire by their distributor there and charged VAT. That distributor then accounts to the Irish government for the VAT accordingly. If you are VAT registered you can reclaim it remembering to put the relevant figures in boxes 4 and 9 of your VAT Return when you do so.
Without the VAT registration number and a VAT tax invoice it is technically illegal to reclaim the VAT. Cakewalk do not supply this information and so the VAT is not reclaimable and for all we know never paid over to the Irish authorities.
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gordonrussell76
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/24 05:04:08
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Man if you want to get angry, get angry with the Government, besides Cakewalk 23% is a lot better than mosts.
My personal favourite is a Traben bass I was looking at purchasing recently, US price $699 dollars, Uk shop price £799, yup thats right, so taking the exchange rate into consideration that should actually be about £350 add the Vat your looking at about £420, so that's a ridiculous mark up.
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Skyline_UK
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/24 05:34:28
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ORIGINAL: Twigman
ORIGINAL: Skyline_UK
Guys, please refer to my posts earlier. Cakewalk themselves have nothing to do with VAT, being a US company, but they choose to distribute out of the Republic of Ireland, part of the EU. Cakewalk are not doing anything wrong or shifty. Ordering in the UK from Cakewalk online actually means you'll be sent the product from Eire by their distributor there and charged VAT. That distributor then accounts to the Irish government for the VAT accordingly. If you are VAT registered you can reclaim it remembering to put the relevant figures in boxes 4 and 9 of your VAT Return when you do so.
Without the VAT registration number and a VAT tax invoice it is technically illegal to reclaim the VAT.
Cakewalk do not supply this information and so the VAT is not reclaimable and for all we know never paid over to the Irish authorities.
If you order online the Ireland-based distributor will send you a valid VAT invoice along with the goods. It's this same distributor who also supplies DV, Etcetera, Edirol as I seem to remember last year ordering my upgrade from Edirol and actually receiving it by courier direct from Ireland, which makes sense as there's no point in Cakewalk shipping in pallet loads to Ireland and then that being broken down into smaller bulk to go to Edirol in England, etc. John
post edited by Skyline_UK - 2008/09/24 05:44:06
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Twigman
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2010/11/08 10:10:50
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Skyline_UK
ORIGINAL: Twigman
ORIGINAL: Skyline_UK
Guys, please refer to my posts earlier. Cakewalk themselves have nothing to do with VAT, being a US company, but they choose to distribute out of the Republic of Ireland, part of the EU. Cakewalk are not doing anything wrong or shifty. Ordering in the UK from Cakewalk online actually means you'll be sent the product from Eire by their distributor there and charged VAT. That distributor then accounts to the Irish government for the VAT accordingly. If you are VAT registered you can reclaim it remembering to put the relevant figures in boxes 4 and 9 of your VAT Return when you do so.
Without the VAT registration number and a VAT tax invoice it is technically illegal to reclaim the VAT.
Cakewalk do not supply this information and so the VAT is not reclaimable and for all we know never paid over to the Irish authorities.
If you order online the Ireland-based distributor will send you a valid VAT invoice along with the goods.
It's this same distributor who also supplies DV, Etcetera, Edirol as I seem to remember last year ordering my upgrade from Edirol and actually receiving it by courier direct from Ireland, which makes sense as there's no point in Cakewalk shipping in pallet loads to Ireland and then that being broken down into smaller bulk to go to Edirol in England, etc.
John
and what if you purchase a download from Cakewalk.com? Where do you get a VAT invoice in that case?
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Fog
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RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2010/11/09 12:26:20
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ah 2008 , was a vintage year
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