vicsant
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Tom F
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/01/01 11:14:54
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btw: what for? are you going to record 128 tracks at 24/96 simultaneously ? the bandwidth of firewire or usb2 is pretty enough to transfer most real-day use audio streams...just take a look at how rme have pushed the performance of their ff400 uc... what i want to say is that the data interface of an audiointerface is the lesss critical part nowadays - so usb3 will just be one of those "just buy me cos i am new" things :-) certainly its GREAT for backup/storage but not practically relevant for audio
post edited by info@tomflair.com - 2010/01/01 11:17:16
...trying to be polite... quick temper...trying to be...
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garyyota
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/01/01 14:02:41
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Yea, I was wandering the same thing. If USB 2.0 and firewire has plenty for 8 tracks at a time, are USB 3 audio interfaces needed by most people?
Interesting though....
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Rodar6
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/01/01 15:35:03
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I remember reading an article about a recording done at Abbey Road studios where there were 102 tracks recorded simultaneously. This was recorded from their desk into pro tools.
Surely they must have been using firewire!
Anyway as for the OP's question it will probably happen when you see computers with USB 3 ports. Will it be before the next Windows OS release? Who Knows !!!
Rod
"Expert in novice advice"  Sonar PE 8.5.1 (pre -5,6,7,8) - Logic Pro Studio 9.1.6 - Windows 7 32bit - Mac OSX Snow Leopard - MacBook Pro 13" i7Core 2.7GHz Sandy Bridge, 8Gb Ram, Intel 520 SSD - Edirol UA-25 - Blue Woodpecker Ribbon - Rode NT5 Condenser - Shure SM57 --- Fender 52 AVRI Telecaster LH - Ovation Special Balladeer LH.
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Tom F
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/01/01 15:37:02
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garyyota
Yea, I was wandering the same thing. If USB 2.0 and firewire has plenty for 8 tracks at a time, are USB 3 audio interfaces needed by most people?
Interesting though....
well it can do much more - actually i have a konnekt48 here (fw unit) that i can easily record 18 tracks simultaneously at 44/96 -- and the bottleneck isnt firewire but just the fact that the interface just has 12analog ins + 8 adat(only one 8i/o port - so only 4 i/o at 96 via s/mux)) +spdif... i cant remember the bandwidth that a single 24/44 stream takes but its pretty low compared to what the specifications we are talking about are capable of... so - no need at all for normal to heavy audio use for usb 3... cheers
...trying to be polite... quick temper...trying to be...
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Tom F
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/01/01 15:39:58
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Rodar6
I remember reading an article about a recording done at Abbey Road studios where there were 102 tracks recorded simultaneously. This was recorded from their desk into pro tools.
Surely they must have been using firewire!
Anyway as for the OP's question it will probably happen when you see computers with USB 3 ports. Will it be before the next Windows OS release? Who Knows !!!
Rod
why firewire??? protools has its own dedicated audio interface going into the accel cards ... the more accel cards you have the more inputs are available - but those cards are pci or pci/e in this case firewire would be the bottleneck - 102 tracks is too much ...but no issue for a protools hd system - you can even play it back with near 0latency if you load all the tracks with tdm plugs :-) AND you can then still record a vocalist in realtime running the monitoring system through the card ...its just another world
...trying to be polite... quick temper...trying to be...
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simpleman
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/01/01 16:33:38
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info@tomflair.com
btw: what for? are you going to record 128 tracks at 24/96 simultaneously ?
the bandwidth of firewire or usb2 is pretty enough to transfer most real-day use audio streams...just take a look at how rme have pushed the performance of their ff400 uc...
what i want to say is that the data interface of an audiointerface is the lesss critical part nowadays - so usb3 will just be one of those "just buy me cos i am new" things :-)
certainly its GREAT for backup/storage but not practically relevant for audio
In time it will become standard on all new MOBO anyway. Why not take advantage of the added power it will deliver. Unless of course it finally put your Protools out of business: lol I can think of having a device with an audio interface and fx's moldered together to deliver less costly processing as a start.
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Tom F
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/01/01 17:00:16
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simpleman
info@tomflair.com
btw: what for? are you going to record 128 tracks at 24/96 simultaneously ?
the bandwidth of firewire or usb2 is pretty enough to transfer most real-day use audio streams...just take a look at how rme have pushed the performance of their ff400 uc...
what i want to say is that the data interface of an audiointerface is the lesss critical part nowadays - so usb3 will just be one of those "just buy me cos i am new" things :-)
certainly its GREAT for backup/storage but not practically relevant for audio
In time it will become standard on all new MOBO anyway. Why not take advantage of the added power it will deliver.
Unless of course it finally put your Protools out of business: lol
I can think of having a device with an audio interface and fx's moldered together to deliver less costly processing as a start.
i agree with you... but there are already all kind of interfaces that combine fx with audiointerface...(also the konnekt has onboard dsap with a few plugs, and so does the lexicon onyx and some others - btw. as soon as the audio is "in" the interface its not anymore a matter of usb/fw or whatever - just a matter of dsp power - i also agree that in theorie faster is always better - but in this case there is just very little need to raise the speed (for audio interfaces) but im not interested in denying benefits of usb 3 - but i think the right context should be remembered :-) btw: its not "my protools" ;-)
...trying to be polite... quick temper...trying to be...
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timboe
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/01/01 19:57:12
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USB 3 will be a massive plus for digital audio. Massive bandwidth and - based on early reports - sysytem latency almost on par with PCI-E and host-cpu load-impact so close zero it wont matter - all of this is due to the new usb-protocols introduced for USB 3 ........ however ....... I would avoid it like the plague until it is put nativley inside the chipset by Intel at the base-silicon level - this is due in the next 3 - 6 months.
All current USB3 solutions are "chipset-bolt-on" solutions to the motherboard - none of them are Intel-chipset-integrated at the silicon level - good news is though that the native Intel USB3 solutions are almost here.
Tim
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deswind
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/01/01 23:45:38
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USB3 will be great if it reduced midi latency. Then I would love to have a midi interface on it.
I even wonder if a USB1 or USB2 midi interface may have less latency hooked up to a USB3 port?
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jamescollins
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/01/02 01:00:28
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What timboe said. I'd also love to have the faster transfer rates for backing up - now that would be nice, I hate waiting around watching all those little files go from one folder into the other!
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jackn2mpu
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/01/02 07:36:08
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deswind
USB3 will be great if it reduced midi latency. Then I would love to have a midi interface on it.
I even wonder if a USB1 or USB2 midi interface may have less latency hooked up to a USB3 port?
USB3 will NOT reduce any perceived MIDI latency. MIDI is an inherently slow protocol compared to the speeds possible with electronics at this time. You have to remember that MIDI was created in a time when clock speeds in computers and other digital electronics was still in the 10's of MHz, not the GHz that we have now. Even MIDI over USB (any flavor) still has to conform to the old timing specs so faster USB protocols won't help. What is really needed is an update to the spec but that won't happen anytime soon - updated MIDI has been talked about for over a decade and hasn't happened. A USB 1 or USB 2 interface won't even make contact with the new pins in the USB3 connector so hooking up such an interface to a faster USB3 connector/system won't help.
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deswind
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/01/02 11:00:22
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It is my understanding that midi latency is less using a PCI card than USB. If this is true, if there is someone to configure the USB port to have whatever is providing the better latency of the PCI or PCI-e slot, then midi latency should improve at least a little bit.
When I had Lynx cards in PCI slots for my midi, I had less midi latency than any USB device I have tried.
jackn2mpu
USB3 will NOT reduce any perceived MIDI latency.
A USB 1 or USB 2 interface won't even make contact with the new pins in the USB3 connector so hooking up such an interface to a faster USB3 connector/system won't help.
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gordonrussell76
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/04/26 06:36:09
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I think the need for USB 3 sadly is going to come in terms of a move towards USB in general I love Firewire, i have a MOTU 828 mkIi and its great, however as of my last laptop purchase its kind of becomming obsolete. Laptops are no longer coming with Firewire, or sadly even PCMCIA anymore or certainly not at the lower price points, and I don't particularly want to pay out twice as much for my laptop becuase i like having one to mobile record its not my main DAW. Previously i had the option of recording mobiliy to my laptop through the 828 then moving to the main DAW and still using the 828. Now I am going to have to look at alternative soundcard for mobile recording. The good news is the best USB soundcard on the market for my purposes is funnily enough the V-Studio 700 by cakewalk. The only other thing that comes close is the RME USB alternative. The fact that both RME and MOTU long term Firewire champions are moving towards USB speaks volumes. The simple fact is that most Desktop and Laptops of the future are going to have one connector type USB 3.0 even the new Light Peak protocal is still going to use that Connector type for compatability. I am now holding off because i am waiting for USB 3.0 to maature and to see who produces the first USB 3.0 Audio Interface with 8 mic preamps and at least 8 in/out via ADAT, ideally 16. The other thing that this could give us would be extra DSP Personally my ideal soundcard would be the following spec. USB 3.0 8 Mic Preamps 16 (or more given the bandwidth of the new protocol) ADAT in and outs DSP reverb/comp etc that can be used both for monitoring inputs so i can give vocalists a good sound while still recroding dry. But also that could be applied during mix to take some strain of the PC (i think that this would be a better use of the other Half of the v700 that the Roland Phantom they have bolted on. This should all be possible via the new protocols bandwidth with the advantage that again in 2 years once USB 3.0 is ubiquitous that it will work with whatever computer i buy, and probably for the next 5-10 years. If M-Audio bring out a soundcard with similar spec to which i have just described i would probably buy that becuase sadly having Pro-tools of some flavour is still going to prove useful in terms of collaboration. Edit INterestingly enough the new MACKie firwire mixer is now compatable with pro-tools m-powered, and this is available as a $50 upgrade driver from there website. THis suggests to me they are paying some form of license to Pro-Tools to provide compatability, I think that Cakewalk shoudl look into that. Not making it a standard part of driverware, but having it available as a download like the MP3 encoder is. In that situation i would buy the V700 no questions asked, its the best thing out there at the moment, and it would still let me collaborate with the die hard Pro-toolers. G
post edited by gordonrussell76 - 2010/04/26 06:43:51
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mgh
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/04/26 06:58:34
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It is my understanding that midi latency is less using a PCI card than USB. If this is true, if there is someone to configure the USB port to have whatever is providing the better latency of the PCI or PCI-e slot, then midi latency should improve at least a little bit.
When I had Lynx cards in PCI slots for my midi, I had less midi latency than any USB device I have tried.
jackn2mpu
USB3 will NOT reduce any perceived MIDI latency.
A USB 1 or USB 2 interface won't even make contact with the new pins in the USB3 connector so hooking up such an interface to a faster USB3 connector/system won't help. you're not talking about midi latency you're talking about audio latency when using softsynths. if usb3 allows faster talk-thru times as timboe says, this will mean an improvement in roundtrip latency.
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Jim Wright
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/04/26 15:33:45
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@jackn2mpu Even MIDI over USB (any flavor) still has to conform to the old timing specs so faster USB protocols won't help. That's not actually true. The USB MIDI spec has no throttling mechanism built in (unlike Firewire MIDI, which does). You can send Sysex dumps over USB MIDI much faster than you can over a MIDI-DIN connection. Of course, if you're sending data to a USB MIDI interface, with MIDI DIN jacks - it still has to throttle-down the data coming out of the jack. The lack of throttling only applies to a MIDI routing where data never goes through a MIDI DIN jack. The timing issues people sometime see with USB MIDI have more to do with a) the Windows software stack that handles USB MIDI message send/receive; b) the use of the Windows MM timer for generating MIDI time stamps in the host (MM timers have a resolution of 1 millisecond at best; often it's worse); c) possible additional timing errors introduced by the 1 millisecond framerate of USB 1.0 (I'm not sure if that's an issue with USB 2.0, which supports micro-frames). All of these things can add up.... Roland has put a lot of work into improving USB MIDI timing accuracy (in their 'FPT' MIDI drivers: for more see http://www.cakewalk.com/S...px?ID=20090330). I'm looking forward to seeing how the new A-Pro keyboards perform. As for USB3 improving MIDI performance - it seems unlikely, unless the underlying issues are handled better. It's still too easy for MIDI and audio data streams to get out of sync with each other. - Jim
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elijahlucian
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/09/24 11:38:40
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usb has always been unreliable for me because it's not a steady stream like firewire, for live shows usb3 will be a steady stream and thus be more PC friendly as it is a native PC thing, where firewire isnt. and trying to get Firewire working on a PC is a FN nightmare. I cant even daisy chain 2 firewire devices (motu896mk3 and motu8pre) on my tower and on my Laptop it wont even recognize devices. even after i bought a card for it.
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johnnyV
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/09/24 12:02:24
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One must never forget that these "new improved" ports are 100% designed with mass market in mind. They will now make a fortune as everything from Printers to cell phone chargers become obsolete.
We are not even on their radar, we just latch on if it will improve our lot. Hopefully it will, but I'm afraid it will just end up costing us money and all we will gain is a ms.
They are most likely already planing USB 4.
Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
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Resonant Order
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/09/24 12:29:26
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"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." Music at Night, 1931- Aldous Huxley
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A1MixMan
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/09/24 14:21:09
(permalink)
info@tomflair.com
btw: what for? are you going to record 128 tracks at 24/96 simultaneously ?
You WILL need it when we all are recording at 256bit/1536kHz !!!
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/09/24 14:32:23
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I hope we see USB 3 audio interfaces soon too. FWIW, It's only been recently that we have quality USB 2.0 audio interfaces that offer performance on par with the best PCI/e units. (Only a couple units deliver that level of performance.) I hope it doesn't take several years to achieve the same with USB 3...  At the very least, I think you're looking at months (not weeks) before USB3 audio interfaces are released and proven rock-solid performers.
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Graal
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/09/24 16:24:57
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USB 3 is obsolete (already).
Intel's Lightpeak will probably be the new standard. It's only in it's infancy. first generation - 10 Gb/s bandwidth.
By the time it reaches maturity, it will have speeds of up to 100 Gb/s (YEAH YOU HEARD ME! 100 GIGAbytes per SECOND).
Cheers!
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Peter J
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/09/24 17:02:49
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-Phoen1x the artist formerly known as Peter J new music soon from Tightrope Fortune! The *brand new* Phoen1xDAW: Core i5 3.3 GHz on Asus P8B75-M 32 GB Mushkin Blackline RAM (2) Seagate 1 TB HD's 1 GB nVidia Vid Win 7 Pro SP1 SONAR X3! My DAW is not cutting edge. It is middle-of-the-blade super bang for the buck! The BAM is in the RAM. ;-|
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/09/24 17:12:46
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USB 3 is obsolete (already). This is why I'd not make any decisions based on vapor-ware...
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geetsifly
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/09/24 17:23:10
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All of this talk of USB 3... bah... I'm still day dreaming about the RME Fireface UC. Its a little spendier but I'm worth it ;) Now to save up the dough.
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stratman70
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/09/24 23:12:32
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I did post a while back-I have USB 3.0 PCI-e cad and a USB 3.0 HD docking station-it is very fast-But I also havean eSata ext drive and it's faster still then the USB 3.0-
But....backups with the USB docking station are great-very fast-no errors.
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Adroen
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/09/25 00:16:44
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I actually got the first USB2 audio interface that came to market(pretty sure it was)....the BCA2000! Any others remember that unit? Well that didn't end up going so well for me. Could never get it working properly. Lost a lot of hair etc....
The BCR2000 and BCF2000 midi controllers went pretty well for a lot of people though, but not the BCA2000...
I went firewire after that with a MOTU Ultralite, but have seen plenty of good USB2 units come out since then that actually do work well. I was amazed to see that MOTU even went hybrid with the next version of the Ultralite when it was released. Seems all the major players have got really comfortable with the hardware/software for USB2 interfaces now.
Be happy to go with a USB3 interface down the track though(if/when my MOTU retires itself). I'll just wait until the implementation of USB3 in audio interfaces has matured a little more before jumping in next time lol.
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ivanSC
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/09/25 00:48:54
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I have SATA3/6gb and USB3 on my motherboard.
SATA3 flies with a SATA3 hard drive.
Still wondering what to do with my USB3 connectors though.
I am still using a pci rme 9652 for audio and haven`t bothered to move my pci-e UAD-1 over from my old 2 core box.
Sometimes I think we tend to want to buy presents for our computers just so all their little slots are nicely filled.
Sort of IT comfort food....
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Keni
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/09/25 14:14:47
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stratman70
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Re:USB 3.0 audio/midi interface? How soon?
2010/09/25 18:05:40
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