swamptooth
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Ugh. Really?
Just spent 3 hours working on a project, saving every 10-15 min. Inserted Sonitus Compressor on Master bus. Clicked slider on soundcard output. Crash!! Option - "do you want sonar to save a recovery copy of your work?". Answer - YES. Reopen sonar. Project Folder empty. Project Audio Folder empty. Un-frickin-believable. Totally unacceptable. Searched for files edited today. Nothing but sonar pic cache files... Seriously??
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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Beagle
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 16:38:27
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if you saved every 10 to 15 minutes then you should at least have the last saved version on your hard drive in the project folder even if the sonar crash-save didn't work. pic cache files are not saved in the same place that project files are saved. are you sure you're looking in the right place?
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Just Another Bloke
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 16:40:19
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I've recently enabled auto save. With systems as powerful as they are today autosave cannot/should not be a concern.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 16:59:04
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I daren't do that Bapu. I do a lot of trial & error stuff and I'm forever ripping out tracks wholesale. It would be just my luck for autosave to kick in just as I did something I wish I hadn't. But I do save regularly and often do a save-as and increment the project name.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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VariousArtist
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 17:05:10
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I have my left-hand permanently perched over the CTRL+S keys to save frequently -- basically as often as I feel it would be painful for me to have to recreate what I might lose. But in order to try and help swamptooth given the situation at hand... Have you tried looking in the default audio folder (not the project audio folder) to see if there are any audio files there? It's unlikely, but I'm sure that when I have imported stuff into a new project that's not yet been saved, that those imported files seem to end up first in that default "global" audio folder. Maybe by some stroke of luck yours were auto-saved there. It's worth a look...
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 17:11:48
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☄ Helpful
John this has happened to me in Sonar before and I feel his pain. The trick is to do what you say of course and save every 10 to 15 minutes but if there is a problem or crash and Sonar asks you "do you want sonar to save a recovery copy of your work?" the correct answer should be NO. Then Sonar won't do anything and you will still have all your work at least 10 to 15 minutes back from where you last saved. I have found from experience that you may not be able to trust what Sonar is going to save in this situation as it is possible to save nothing and remove everything in the process. I would be intersted to know what in fact Sonar would be saving in this case.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 17:14:27
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☄ Helpful
Great tip Jeff. The only time I ever had any success with saying 'Yes' was way back in version 6.2.1 I think something got broke after that. But like you, I now always say NO and accept that I have to go back a bit.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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swamptooth
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 17:18:48
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@Peter - yeah I do the same thing... ctrl+s all the damned time. @jeff - sorry you've been through this too. i mean wtf though a recovery copy should be a recovery copy it shouldn't wipe out the existing files. smh.
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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swamptooth
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 17:20:14
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@beagle - yeah cakewalk projects. and did windows explorer search for date modified. nothing today except the file folders they were in. and windows search on entire drive. nothing.
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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VariousArtist
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 17:33:39
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swamptooth @beagle - yeah cakewalk projects. and did windows explorer search for date modified. nothing today except the file folders they were in. and windows search on entire drive. nothing. For what it's worth... I dont trust Windows Search tool. I've had it look in folders for files that I can see are there and have witnessed many times an empty result list. Not since WinXP have I seen Windows Search to be reliable (and I've checked all the special options for it to check the file types and locations I want it to index). I know this is grasping at straws but did you actually go to the specific global/default folder for projects and/or audio? If you did indeed do any save (or an auto-save occurred) then I have to believe it's somewhere. Unless it really dd get wiped out from a saved state, which seems unlikely (and scary).
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 17:48:58
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☄ Helpful
Hi Folks, Since I've been hanging around a bit today, I'd like to share something I often share with others. I hate dealing with losing any type of data (be it with SONAR or any other program) so I'm personally pretty meticulous about backing up my data and using versioning features when available. Below is something I like to share with everyone just in case you ever are dealing with a project or file that is corrupted: For starters, always keep a backup of your project on a different hard drive. If your hard drive fails, you will want to be able to recover your files from a second internal hard drive or from an external hard drive. Even if your hard drive is a high performance, high quality and very expensive hard drive, do not make the mistake of trusting that it will never fail. It might, and if it does you will regret not having a backup. Secondly, I STRONGLY suggest taking advantage of SONAR's auto-save and versioning features found under Edit > Preferences > File - Advanced. I cannot recommend keeping versions of files enough, for any application. With applications that do not do this automatically, I manually create versions after every so many revisions. For example, I keep an Excel spreadsheet with a lot of data that I have lost in the past due to file corruption. Now, with my Excel spreadsheet, I create a new version every two weeks and add the time and/or date to the end of the file. For example: My Finances 7_21_2011.xlsx My Finances 8_14_2011.xlsx SONAR's versioning feature will handle this for you. Essentially this keeps versions of your project file so that should your latest project become corrupted, you can revert back to the previous version. You might still lose a little bit of work, but it is better to lose 10 mins or an hour of work opposed to the entire project. Ultimately you'll want to decide on the number of versions you would like to keep. If you choose "10" for example, it will only maintain the 10 most recent revisions. It will automatically name the files with the timestamp of previous versions. For example: My project.cwp (this is your most recent project that will be referenced by SONAR and will open to your most recent changes) My project.cwp.~2011-10-03-12-17-49-385 (this is a project that was saved on 10/3/2011 at 12:17 PM) My project.cwp.~2011-10-02-12-10-39-373 (this is a project that was saved on 10/2/2011 at 12:10 PM) If I ever needed to revert back to the previous project, I can just remove the "~2011-10-03-12-17-49-385" of my first revision. This can also be done from File > Revert. The nice part about this is that the project files themselves are small, so it is not like it is creating a version of all the audio files and taking up lots of hard drive space. The space taken up is minimal. I hope this helps!
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lorneyb2
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 17:53:20
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Have you tried the revert menu (under File 3rd down) to see if there is any data somewhere. Open what ever there is of the file and Click on the revert and select the most recent revision.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Win 8.1 Pro 64bit, Quad Core 3.2GHz, 16G ram, Edirol FA 101, Nvidia EW (Platinum Orchestra, Hollywood Strings, Pianos, Gypsy, Fab 4, Ministry of Rock,Choirs, etc)
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 18:04:44
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☄ Helpful
If all the files have been deleted, they will have been removed from the master file table, not actually deleted from your hard drive. Don't use the harddrive at all, download some free recovery software, and have a look. The files should still (unless something has been written over them) be on the drive. I don't see why you shouldn't be able to recover some, or all of your files this way. At the end of the day though, ALWAYS BACKUP YOUR PROJECTS!!!! Hard drive crashes can occur without warning and you never know.
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swamptooth
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 18:21:33
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So here's the thing... the project doesn't even show up in the file menu under recent files... why? because IT DOES NOT EXIST. And, yes, I back up my work every day to an external hard drive at night. @ryan - I use autosave and versioning on many projects. Problem is it crashes sonar sometimes when i am scrubbing or playing back a file and autosave tries to run. So I guess when I want to play a section i can go into preferences and turn off autosave and versioning and then 30 seconds later turn it back on and then a few minutes after that turn it off again and so on... ;)
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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swamptooth
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 18:33:33
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Trying file recovery program now. Will keep you posted.
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 18:37:09
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If SONAR crashes, my recent project files never show up on the recent list. This is normal. I simply have to go to file - open and point to the folder in which the project was saved before and it is always there. Lance
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
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swamptooth
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 18:38:30
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LOL. Apparently Sonar isn't saving anything at all.
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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swamptooth
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 18:39:32
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@lance - not there. even turned off hide files options in windows. Nothing. nada. zip.
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 18:51:54
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hmmm.... Very interesting. I would like to get my hands on your computer- Are you able to go to where your projects are saved and see the project file of other projects? Lance
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
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miguelito
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 18:55:58
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This may sound silly but if the files were deleted (even by Sonar) they should be in the Recycle Bin of Windows. You might want to check there just to make sure. Feel your pain though...hope it works out for you. Regards,
Mike A Roseberry racer w/ Win7 Pro (64) fully loaded RME UFX Fireface; Sonar X2; Guitars and amps. Axon 100 MKII, M-Audio Keystation Pro 88, Komplete All software latest revision
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swamptooth
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 19:05:01
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oh yeah... all the other project files are there. file recovery yielded nothing which is just totally bizarre... all the pic cache icons are still there... a bit of a disclaimer, i'm a systems engineer.
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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swamptooth
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 19:25:21
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yeah... all three file recovery programs... NOTHING. LOL. Wish I could attach screenshots so you guys could see. :)
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 19:41:08
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What a trip man! I haven't had this happen in the 8 years plus of SONAR since Sonar 2 XL. Sorry for the mishap! Lance
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
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Bub
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 20:07:20
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I have Sonar set to auto-save every 60 seconds. Keep in mind, auto-save does not kick in while you are playing a project or recording.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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johnnyV
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 20:10:29
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I have never seen the files erased. You have a project folder with the CWP icon and the audio folder. every signal thing you record is in there, even stuff your not using. Only dumb thing ( i find) is MIDI is not there and is hidden with in the CWP file. If the program crashes it would not erase anything. Those audio files are there somewhere. Either that or your hard drive screwed up.
Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
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stratman70
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 20:20:43
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sorry for your problems, but stating you are a system engineer (I am also, among other such certs, retired though) then you must realize the files have to be on your hard drive (or as stated by someone else your HD is at fault). CW cannot perform magic and seek out and destroy every file related to the project that you saved "multiple times" very strange. Not saying you are making this up, just seems "strange" Don't you agree?
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stratman70
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 20:27:00
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johnnyV I have never seen the files erased. You have a project folder with the CWP icon and the audio folder. every signal thing you record is in there, even stuff your not using. Only dumb thing ( i find) is MIDI is not there and is hidden with in the CWP file. If the program crashes it would not erase anything. Those audio files are there somewhere. Either that or your hard drive screwed up. Exactly +1
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Bub
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/19 21:15:05
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When Sonar locks up, you usually have to reboot. What probably happened was, he rebooted before the file was written. I doubt the file would have worked anyway. Every time I've had it try to save a project, the resulting file was corrupted beyond being able to be opened.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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swamptooth
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/20 00:48:35
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nope didnt have to reboot. the project folders are there and like i said before the icons are in the picture cache. not a win systems engineer. databases mostly but i do understand windows file structures and how to find the prohect folders. the file folders are still there but no project or aufio files. also have the sonar crash dump file. damndest thing ive ever seen. and when i have autosave turned on it does kick in during playback. that was with x1c haven't tried with x1d. it can be laame when trying to play live.if it was a hard drive failure i would have expected more corruption or instability when i scanned the disk but nothing else was wonky.
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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swamptooth
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Re:Ugh. Really?
2012/04/20 00:58:40
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yeah no .cwp file either. vanished. just the project folders. and i had closed sonar at one point and reopened it and the project file. recovery file - none. jeff evans you said the same thing has happened to you is it pretty much exactly like this?
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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