Unable to do Bank Changes On M1 Korg Legacy Digital Edition

Hi everyone,
I am new to this so please forgive my ignorance.  I purchased Sonar 3 a few years ago and have been using it for live performances to send bank and patch changes to all my hardware devices during performances.  I had used the Korg M1 keyboard for years and then the rack mountable version and now want to start using the software VST in SONAR.  I purchased the Korg Legacy Digital Edition last year and have not been able to use it live as yet.  The reason is that I am unable to get SONAR to do bank changes.  I record using MIDI all my bank and patch changes with my hardware keyboards and sound modules and then play them back and they work perfectly with this method, however I can’t use that method with the VST.  I did need to create instrument definitions for my Roland JV 880 rack module and was able to insert bank and patch changes with that module so I have an idea what needs to be done, but don’t know where to go for the Korg VST. 
 
The Tech support people at Korg said it isn't because of their software and SONAR says it isn't because of their software.  I am using the m-audio midi sport MIDI Interface and the Roland SONICCELL Sound Module as my Audio Interface with my Laptop.  To make a long story short.... after a year of tech support going back and forth between the two companies I have purchased SONAR 8, a brand new Vista 64 bit 4 GB Ram laptop and a cakewalk MIDI interface and done all the downloadable updates and still have not been able to move forward.  I followed all the directions for creating instrument definitions and when I try to insert a “bank/patch” change sonar does not see the 26 Banks (0-25) that I had created each with 100 or 50 sounds (patches) which I had to type in one at a time.  You can’t imagine what a pain that was. 
 
I just discovered with help of tech support the instrument definition file in program files for cakewalk and tech support looked at my definitions, edited them and sent them back to me with instructions on how to use them and the same thing is happening.  When I try to do a bank and patch change the program only sees one bank only and never changes from that bank. The patches change correctly to the number I request but not the bank!
[size=3 font="times new roman"] 
[size=3 font="times new roman"]One thing that makes me think that the problem is with SONAR is that when I use the Korg M1 software program in stand-alone mode, it goes to the correct bank and patch numbers when I use my m-audio keystation 49e and my m-audio Oxygen 49 controller.  I saw a solution on the user forum about the creation of instrument definitions and I will try to decipher what was written but it all looks like Greek to me as I am not very MIDI savy.
Thanks in advance for any help which would be most appreciated,
Best wishes,
paparich

After you have followed through on brundlefly's question --

Your oxygen controller is set for the right formula for bank number. You could try recording your controller sending a bank and patch change onto a track of Sonar. Then you can look in the event list to see the way Sonar has recorded that event. And also convince yourself that Sonar can play that track back to the M1 software and make it change banks. From there we ought to be able reverse engineer the right setting for Sonar. Sonar knows at least three ways to code the bank select message, and it's necessary to match Sonar to each instrument. It's just one setting for the instrument and maybe twenty five edits for your banks.

The real "legacy" M1 doesn't support bank changes.

Bill B.

Does the file have a section that looks something like this?

[Korg Legacy Collection M1]
Patch[0]=Korg Legacy Collection M1 Bank 0
Patch[1]=Korg Legacy Collection M1 Bank 1
Patch[2]=Korg Legacy Collection M1 Bank 2

…

Patch[25]=Korg Legacy Collection M1 Bank 25
Patch[asterisk]=Korg Legacy Collection M1 Bank 0 

If the Bank names show up, but the bank doesn't change, it is probably the Bank select method that needs to be changed, as Bill mentioned.

Edit: [asterisk] was interpreted as an HTML tag when the * was used. This is what determines the default bank.

post edited by brundlefly - 2009/09/04 10:48:21

Hello Brundlefly,
I was just able to get some free time at work and looked at the file using notepad.  Yes there is a section that looks something like what you asked, here is some of it…

; ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
.Instrument Definitions
 
[Korg M1 Legacy Collection Lance mod]
BankSelMethod=1
Patch[0]=Korg M1 Legacy Collection 0
Patch[1]=Korg M1 Legacy Collection 1
Patch[2]=Korg M1 Legacy Collection 2
..........
Patch[25]=Korg M1 Legacy Collection 25
Patch[asterisk]=General MIDI
 
[Generic (Patches 0..127)]
Patch[asterisk]=0..127
 
[Generic (Patches 1..128)]
Patch[asterisk]=1..128

Hey, I was wondering why you wrote the word asterisk out and now I know why... ha ha pretty funny..... 
I would like to point out that the Korg Legacy Collection specifies in the MIDI Implementation chart that the Bank Select Method is the “0” Method and when you read above I see that the tech support person “Lance” wrote the Bank Select Method as =”1” .  Could that be part of the problem and do you think I should change that and save it as “BankSelMethod=0”? 
Another thing I noticed when I select a bank and try to input the patch… the choices I get are only within the same bank and it doesn’t change to any other bank as stated in my original question posted.   But there is something strange about the way it displays the instrument choices in the drop down box.  The instruments are displayed in order up to number 49 i.e. from 0-49 because there happen to be 50 patches in that bank.  However number fifty all the way up to number 99 are displayed as the final instrument seen (the one that was number 49) and then after 99 the numbers are displayed with no name after them up to 127.  I asked the people in tech support about this and they had no answer. 


 I had a screen capture picture of what I see but I can't figure out how to paste it in this forum so you could see what I am talking about.

If you look at the place in SONAR where the instrument definitions are input the dialog box on the left under Define Instruments and Names … the first entry is “*=General MIDI” .   Now why would that be the first entry and not simply the list as written in my original naming sequence starting with Bank 0 etc.  It seems like it should not belong here.
I have tried to delete that entry and it is impossible to delete it as the software doesn’t permit it to be deleted.  As I am sure you know by now I don’t know enough about computer programming to know whether this is a necessary entry but it does seem strange and might explain the appearance of the drop down box.
 
Thanks in advance again and sorry about the long winded explantations but its the only way I can explain my problem
Yours Truly,
paparich 
 

paparich,
It would be a good idea to make a backup copy of your Master.ins file now.

First, about the patch numbers. The M1 only used patch numbers 00-99, separately for Internal(I) and Card (C). If you sent a patch change 100, it would switch to patch 0. For Sonar's purposes, it's fine for numbers 100-127 to be generic names. Secondly, if a bank (i.e. a memory card) had been formatted to hold only 50 patches, then that's probably what Korg is delivering in their software. Again, no problem if numbers 50-99 aren't labeled correctly. Although it might be interesting to see what is actually in those patch slots.

The line  Patch[asterisk]=General MIDI is harmless when it comes after all the real bank specifiers. If an unrecognized bank number is received, the patches will show as the General MIDI set.

If the bank select method is wrong, then the patch numbers in the .Instrument Definitions section are also wrong. I think if you change the bank select method from 1 to 0, you will have to change those patch numbers in the .Instrument Definitions section too. Here is where it might help to look at the event list. Select your captured patch changes track and menu: View->Event List to examine the bank numbers there. Unless you can decode what is happening in the event list, you might have to go back to the Legacy Collection MIDI chart to see how the bank number is coded (MSB, LSB) and then figure out how MSB and LSB figure into Sonar's Patch[<number>] scheme. You might for example find that 1 should be 128, 2 -> 256, etc (n -> 128*n).

Bill B.