John T
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/11 07:44:32
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ROLAND SHARES PLUMMET DUE TO "McCUE EFFECT" SAYS ANALYST.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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jimknopf
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/11 08:38:30
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Which analyst where?
And what is a "McCue effect"?
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Jose7822
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/11 08:39:17
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Great! John T is here to ruin yet another awesome thread :/
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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John T
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/11 08:58:28
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Oh come on. It's funny.
Imagine the scene, someone nervous young staffer rapping on the door of the board meeting to impart this epoch making news.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Jonbouy
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/11 09:21:20
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John T
Oh come on. It's funny.
Imagine the scene, someone nervous young staffer rapping on the door of the board meeting to impart this epoch making news.
I'm imagining...... 
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/01/11 09:22:23
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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SongCraft
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/11 09:56:59
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UnderTow;
Very impressive list with constructive details and ideas/suggestions :)
Wow there's a lot covered in your list, I'll get back later when I have more time to contribute with respect to this thread. (great thread)!
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/11 10:32:40
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Great list Undertow, and shows a deep committment to wanting X1 to be the best DAW on the planet.
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rabeach
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/11 12:03:11
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Frankly, if they don't separate the Synth Rack view to its own view and not lock into the browser or the multi-dock, I'll be disappointed for years. I agree 100% the synth rack should be returned to its own view.
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The Maillard Reaction
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post edited by The Maillard Reaction - 2019/01/09 03:07:58
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jimknopf
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/11 13:22:14
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Finding everything in one place in the browser window looks very convincing to me from a principal order perspective. Having dedicated separate windows for everything is no convincing alternative IMHO. My question would be, how elegant functionality (avoiding unnesseray steps and clicks and giving good overview) could be integrated into the present concept. Something warns me that cluttering everything into separate windows and functions gain is a step backward into Sonar 8.5 - and I do not mean that as a compliment. But I have to admit I do not have a detailed precise overview over all functions and clicks in question at this moment.
post edited by jimknopf - 2011/01/11 13:25:55
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ba_midi
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/11 13:52:51
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mike_mccue
I always just clicked on the track output and up popped the synth.
Seemed pretty simple and the *button* did double duty 24/7 which saved all sorts of display space.
I figure I'll just keep doing that.
best regards,
mike
Mike, yes- I do that all the time; but you missed the point about the assignable controls. Those are very important functions for me, and bringing up the plugin GUI won't yield that.
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The Maillard Reaction
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post edited by The Maillard Reaction - 2019/01/09 03:08:07
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UnderTow
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/11 18:01:00
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Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]
Thank you Alistair for taking the time to create this list. I'll take some time to digest further point by point after NAMM, but I'm sure Product Management and Dev will consider these points prior.
Great!. Thanks for responding Brandon.
Just so everyone is aware though, and this is not meant in any way to take away from Alistairs work here, but there is a big difference between coming up with an idea for something and actually implementing it. Thinking of it and writing it down is not the same as writing the code for it, integrating it into the current framework, testing it, compiling it, etc.
So you are going to give me access to the source code? Interesting.  All joking aside, what you say is of course true but many of these ideas are simple and should be no problem to implement. That isn't what worries me. The things that worry me and that get in the way of good ideas most are politics, differing ideas, ego's etc (I am not saying that is or will be the case here but they often rear their ugly heads) and of course resource limitation. Still, many of the ideas in this particular list are chosen for the fact that they are low-level yet should increase workflow and bread and butter functions. In other words I think they have a high ratio of return on investment. IMO something very important when prioritising improvements. The next version of this suggestions document will continue in the same vain but will also contain more involved features for the long term. Some of these have been mentioned before: Nested Folders, Universal Track Architecture, Automation Lanes... Some maybe not. There are a lot of knowledgeable poeple at Cakewalk, in our extended organization (all of Roland and worldwide distribution) and our wide ranging userbase. And good ideas come up. But making them real is a different story. I think this is an important point.
Of course. But please don't get me wrong - good ideas are always welcome and I sincerely thank Alistair for taking the time to present this very thoughtful list to us - and you have my word it will not go without serious and continuing consideration.
Great and you are most welcome. I know you sometimes wonder about my intentions as some of my criticism can be very harsh but in the end, I want what I assume everyone else on this forum wants: Sonar to be as good as it possibly can be. I have a few very busy days of work at the moment. After that I will hopefully be able to spend a bit more time on ideas and suggestions. I would also like to thanks everyone else that responded in this thread. Cheers, UnderTow
post edited by UnderTow - 2011/01/11 18:02:31
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randyman
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/11 19:09:13
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They are all great suggestions. But, I'll side with Brandon a little. Getting coding into and holding hands with all the other kids in the playground (classes, objects, functions, structs, et all, ) and singing kumbayah is - without a doubt, one of the hardest things to do in code. (I know I'm not the only person that has been coding enterprise/large scale apps on here for 25 years and not had this problem). The suggestions are however, great feedback. I also applaud the 'Cake' as it doesn't censor the forum so that all this can happen. My hats off to UnderTow for taking the time and effort to do the documentation. I think he'd be a great person to have in the QC department  Carry On!
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UnderTow
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/30 13:13:49
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Katie_Katie
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/30 14:32:02
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Thanks for doing this Undertow! If it's not too late to add... 1. The Drum Map Editor really needs an overhaul. Windows 3.1 called and would like their drum manager back. The current type of interface and the functionality is quite lacking. Some people (like me) use(struggle with) it to create articulation maps for libraries like EWQLSO. 2. Speaking of articulation maps, how about an articulation VST? That is all. Thanks.
post edited by Katie_Katie - 2011/01/30 14:33:16
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Guest
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/30 14:34:54
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It would be nice if the loop construction acted more like the TV. LC has always been a complete PITA and it wouldn't take much to sort it out.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/30 14:36:02
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1. The Drum Map Editor really needs an overhaul. Windows 3.1 called and would like their drum manager back. +1000000000 for the first part and LOL for the second.
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Keni
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/30 16:18:13
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UnderTow
- place holder 2 -
Hi UnderTow... Nice list... I agree with many of the issues you define. I can't quite say all, but probably most of them. It must have taken you quite a bit of work to gather all these notes so well... thanks for all the work. I sure hope by this time the Bakers are baking many of these items into X1b! Keni
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UnderTow
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/30 16:35:22
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Katie_Katie
Thanks for doing this Undertow!
You are welcome. Hopefully some of these ideas get into X1. If it's not too late to add...
1. The Drum Map Editor really needs an overhaul. Windows 3.1 called and would like their drum manager back. The current type of interface and the functionality is quite lacking. Some people (like me) use(struggle with) it to create articulation maps for libraries like EWQLSO.
LOL. :) I haven't looked at the Drum Map Editor yet. I'll have a look at some point but I don't really use it much. Possibly because it is too archaic. ;-) 2. Speaking of articulation maps, how about an articulation VST?
I'm not really sure what you mean. Could you elaborate? Thanks for the feedback. UnderTow
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UnderTow
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/30 16:36:45
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10Ten
It would be nice if the loop construction acted more like the TV. LC has always been a complete PITA and it wouldn't take much to sort it out.
Another thing I haven't looked at yet but it is certainly the kind of thing that I would like to use if it is well implemented so I'll check it out next time I am using/testing X1. UnderTow
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UnderTow
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/30 16:39:52
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Keni
Hi UnderTow...
Nice list... I agree with many of the issues you define. I can't quite say all, but probably most of them.
Thanks Keni, could you elaborate on the ideas you don't agree with? If there are good reasons not to do things the way I suggest, I would like to hear them. I might come up with better ideas that encompass those objections or I might just refine my suggestions to reflect different workflows. It must have taken you quite a bit of work to gather all these notes so well... thanks for all the work.
Well... not THAT much work really. Just a lot of typing!  I sure hope by this time the Bakers are baking many of these items into X1b!
Me too! UnderTow
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Katie_Katie
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/30 18:35:15
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2. Speaking of articulation maps, how about an articulation VST?
I'm not really sure what you mean. Could you elaborate? Thanks for the feedback. UnderTow ******************************* I'll elaborate on what I call the Articulation VST. I call it that because another DAW company calls it VST Expression. Basically, this function, VST or built in, would facilitate working with multiple instrument articulations for orchestra libraries. It would contain an expression map editor to map and remap the articulation controllers, such as key switches, controller changes or MIDI channel remapping. Also, it would have a companion articulation lane on the PRV and/or Staff view. And, since I mentioned Staff View, that needs an overhaul too. I'll elaborate a bit. If (wish list here) Staff view or PRV had a separate lane that simply identified the channel that a particular note played, that would be a great great help. Although I can, present state, change the articulation of a instrument by selecting an individual note in the Staff or PRV and change its channel (thus articulation), I have no visual clue (other than the event list- yech) what channel that note is playing on after editing. This functionality would not replace the VST Articulation stated above, but it would go a long way getting there. I'm not expecting the automatic keyswitching functionality of Overture or Sibelius (that would be an absurd request) - but something better than what is there now. Thanks for asking!
post edited by Katie_Katie - 2011/01/30 19:05:12
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UnderTow
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/31 10:58:55
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Katie_Katie
I'll elaborate on what I call the Articulation VST. I call it that because another DAW company calls it VST Expression.
Basically, this function, VST or built in, would facilitate working with multiple instrument articulations for orchestra libraries. It would contain an expression map editor to map and remap the articulation controllers, such as key switches, controller changes or MIDI channel remapping. Also, it would have a companion articulation lane on the PRV and/or Staff view.
Would Implementing the VST 3.0 standard (and above) take care of these articulation issues? And, since I mentioned Staff View, that needs an overhaul too. I'll elaborate a bit.
Ah. Another thing I never use. :-) If (wish list here) Staff view or PRV had a separate lane that simply identified the channel that a particular note played, that would be a great great help. Although I can, present state, change the articulation of a instrument by selecting an individual note in the Staff or PRV and change its channel (thus articulation), I have no visual clue (other than the event list- yech) what channel that note is playing on after editing. This functionality would not replace the VST Articulation stated above, but it would go a long way getting there. I'm not expecting the automatic keyswitching functionality of Overture or Sibelius (that would be an absurd request) - but something better than what is there now.
Would having different colour notes per channel solve this issue? UnderTow
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Zonno
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/31 15:04:46
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Sonar X1 PDF Reference Guide: Vey first item on your list triggered me. Is there a Reference Guide? I can only find a 56 page "SONAR X1 User Guide.pdf" I have the downloaed version. What did I overlook?
Cakewalk, Reason 10, KOMPLETE 11, BIAB 2018, Roland OctaCapture, Finale 26, PCR-300, HP ZBook, Guitars __________________ Any text above is a random collection of characters which bear no meaning whatsoever. The reader will be held liable for any damage due to interpretation of these characters.
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UnderTow
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/31 15:14:27
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Zonno
Sonar X1 PDF Reference Guide:
Vey first item on your list triggered me.
Is there a Reference Guide?
I can only find a 56 page "SONAR X1 User Guide.pdf"
I have the downloaed version. What did I overlook?
There is a downloadable 1850 page X1 Reference Guide. It should really have it's own sticky... It was mentioned in this thread: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2213899 (Cakewalk, make it a sticky. I know it is Referenced in Brandon's thread but this should have it's own sticky. It is too important). UnderTow
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Katie_Katie
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/01/31 15:54:38
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"Would Implementing the VST 3.0 standard (and above) take care of these articulation issues? "
I most likely muddied the water by using the term "VST". My fault UnderTow...Bad Girl. Forget I ever used that term (To quote a movie line, "I was never here - look at my badge").
Actually, this articulation feature would be a functionality of the DAW. It would be built-in to the current Track, PRV, and Staff Views. Similar to how you can view velocity and other CC information in their own lane.
"Would having different colour notes per channel solve this issue?"
That would help. But, if they could assign the color (or colour) to show a channel, you would think they could assign a channel indicator (an actual number) somewhere on the screen. Having a different color would also require a legend somewhere on the screen so a user could associate the color (or colour) to the channel.
Thanks again
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panup
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Re:UnderTow's X1 Suggestion List.
2011/02/18 08:52:12
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Bump.
Have to read UnderTow's suggestions once again and search ideas for my next mod...
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