Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture

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altima_boy_2001
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2008/03/07 22:06:02 (permalink)

Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture

Can someone explain the why/how/when of cut and res envelopes in Rapture? After reading the manual, the Cakewalk Synthesizers book, experimenting with my own programs, and turning them on and off with the presets I have little practical knowledge of why/how/when to use them or what exactly they are doing. I understanding the are cutting/boosting frequencies in some sort of programmable pattern, but that's about it. Honestly, the only presets where I do hear what's going on are noise patches where the cut step generator is filled with random steps where I can hear high frequencies cut in and out according to the steps. Or are they really useless except for those circumstances?
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    vespesian
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    RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2008/03/07 23:37:23 (permalink)
    Uh - they're incredibly powerful. Make sure you've adjusted the "depth" enough (ie., well beyond 6000), Turn DOWN the volume. Cut/Res are basic ways to manipulate sound. Send me a file and I'll help you out.

    You're in an amazing state.

    So stay there.
     

     
    #2
    AT
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    RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2008/03/08 00:45:48 (permalink)
    You use the envelopes (or step generator or LFO) to control the "cut off" frequency of the filter and the Resonance amount. The Cut off is where the filter starts working - lowering the amount of frequencies that come out of the oscillator either above or below it. Then there is the slope (the filter isn't really flat - ie. going from all to nothing).

    The resonance builds up the frequency around the cut of point. In analog filters you could actually get a sine wave out of it by cranking it up. That is one reason why the filter freq is designed to be able to follow the keyboard signal (ie. pitch) - in monophonic synths you could add another layer. Most digital filters won't self-oscillate unless they recieve a signal (an ocillator or element in Rapture speak) - that you can hear it as a discrete, pure pitchif you crank up the resonance. It is easy to blow a speaker so, as vespesian sez, watch out. with the resonance up enough, you get that very synthy sound - I call it "wet" - that we know and love and is well used in bass for dance style music.

    In Rapture, turn on one element and loud in a saw wave. Enable the cut and res on the filter and start playing and you'll hear the difference and how they each effect the raw sound. HAve an organ type amplitude envelope (straight on and off). With a low pass filter you can raise and lower the filter frequency and get rid of the highs in the sawtooth. The resonance works in conjunction with the frequency, thickening up the sound at the cut off point until you start to get the self-oscillation. The envelopes automate altering the cut off point/resonance amount (the same way the LFO/step sequencer can). If you can't hear the effect, make sure the depth is up and the envelope is turned on. Start with the cut off, since that will be easy to hear, and use the Low Pass and experiment from there.

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    #3
    b rock
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    RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2008/03/08 05:54:28 (permalink)
    General Rapture filter info:

    1). Choose a routing in the DSP section; otherwise, the filters are out of the signal path.
    To experiment wth one filter only, select a serial routing (like 01. DSP1 -> DSP2 -> F1 -> DSP3 -> F2). Parallel routings (example: 04. F1 ->DSP1 ->DSP2 || F2 - DSP3) split the filters on two branches, and it's more difficult to hear what one or the other is doing alone.

    2). Select a filter type.
    That's going to make a huge difference whether the filter acts above, below, or around the Cutoff knob position, or whether the filters break up at high resonances (ex. - LPS 2).

    3). Adjust the Cutoff and/or Res knob.
    This is the starting point(s) of the filter. Any Cut LFO, stepgen, or envelope that you enable will add or subtract from this initial 'knob' position. The Cutoff is measured in Hertz; the resonance units are in deciBels.

    General Filter EG info:

    1). Enable the Cut 1/2 Status.
    It's very easy to overlook this parameter. It takes the filter envelope in & out of the signal chain.

    2). Set the Cut 1/2 Depth.
    The default amount is 12000. That's ten full octaves (10 X 1200 'cents' per octave) above your initial Cutoff knob setting. Don't leave it there for now; that much range can develop into filter actions higher than you can hear (depending on the other filter settings). Start out with a few thousand 'cents' instead.

    This sets the upper limit of your envelope shape (level 1.000, or the top horizontal line in the EG display). The lowest horizontal line is where your Cutoff knob is currently positioned (in a virtual sense; at 0.000). Depth can be positive or negative. The EG will either add to, or subtract from, the selected filter over time.

    3). Create an envelope, using multiple nodes and segments.
    Here's where the relationship between time and filter depth is established. At default, the EG display wll show one second of time elapsed, from left to right. 'Time' always begins when you press a note on your keyboard. Another separate filter is generated for each note that you play. The EG display represents the shape of each of those individual filters.

    4). Adjust the node positions and segments to taste.
    With Rapture's breakpoint envelopes, you're telling the filter here that you want this depth to occur at this point in time. A node represents both a point in time (horizontally), and how much level that you want added/subtracted from the initial Cutoff knob setting (vertically in the EG display).

    {For more information, see the Nodes, Segments, and Shapes or Multiple AttackDecayRelease tutorials.}

    ********************************

    Edit:
    There are many more parameters to explore here that greatly affect the filters, but this should get you started. If you'd like to try an easy filter tutorial with clear results, see the 'Say Yay' tutorial. It uses opposing LFOs to create the effect, but you could just as easily substitute two filter envelopes instead.

    Disregard or disable the LFOs in that setup. Create a Cut1 EG envelope shape at a positive Depth (2400 cents/ 2 octaves is a good place to start). Copy the whole Modulator from the right-click context menu, and Paste Modulator into Cut2. Then change the Depth setting in the Cut2 EG to -2400. These examples use parallel filter routings with two complimentary filters.
    post edited by b rock - 2008/03/08 10:16:49
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    altima_boy_2001
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    RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2008/03/08 17:04:31 (permalink)
    So, the cut/res sections are tied to the filters in the DSP section? Is that in the manual anywhere because I don't think that was intuitive at all coming from a non-synth background...

    That would explain why I wasn't hearing any changes...Most of the time I was turning off the DSP section to minimize the parameters affecting the sound (sort of trying to limit my variables). And the relative depth settings in the cut/res sections made no sense because I had no clue what they were relative to. I was thinking it was somehow tied to the note of the triggering event or something...

    Previously I've been setting up automation envelopes in Sonar to do any programming of these filters and it took forever because I was drawing the same pattern for every note...
    #5
    ckatrun411
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    RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2008/03/08 18:21:12 (permalink)
    Hi mate, just my quick .02

    before I bought rapture I had a very small knowledge of synth programming. For me rapture was indeed an incredible challenge to learn and understand. but OMG is it worth it. I think the guys gave some really great insight into how the envelopes work, and to answer your question, yes, everything is in the manual.

    read more books on synthesis and what not, you will be fine

    cheers
    #6
    Tunesy
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    RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2008/03/08 22:14:31 (permalink)
    Some really helpful info here that I didn't pick up on in the Cakewalk synths book or in “How to Make a Noise”. It's all starting to come together. Thanks, b rock. Besides music, you also really have a talent for technical writing. Thanks to you too, AT.
    #7
    AT
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    RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2008/03/09 16:25:57 (permalink)
    Tunesy,

    just keep playing with it and ask questions if you want. But there is no substitute for actually messing with a synth. I remember when I got my first mini-moog and was playing with it under the influence of .... and frecked out since it started doing things I didn't understand.

    I still enjoy that feeling - not the influence but making strange sounds, even if I figure them out afterwards.

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    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
     
    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    #8
    alvin18
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    RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2008/03/09 16:36:04 (permalink)
    I got error when posting a new post, so i put my quiestion here, sorry altima_boy

    Searched this forum but did not find the answer - i am planning to purchase Dimension Pro or Rapture for my PC, running XP 32 and Cubase 4 on it now. In future i plan to upgrade to vista (32 probably, maybe 64). The question is - is Dim Pro and Rapture officially a Vista compatible? When i checked system requirements, only Win XP was listed for both, Rapture and Dim Pro.

    Thanks in advance....

    Alvin

    http://www.martellorotativo.com
    #9
    techead
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    RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2008/03/09 16:58:42 (permalink)
    I played with them a little on Vista once and didn't have any problems but I did not explore deeply. I believe the core of the instruments will work fine but I have seen some reports around here from other users which indicated some anomalies with controls and display and such. Rapture likely has better Vista compatibility as it is a newer codebase than Dimension Pro.

    I suggest that you contact Cakewalk directly via telephone or email about this question to get a very definifitive response directly from the best source.
    #10
    alvin18
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    RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2008/03/09 17:01:46 (permalink)
    Thanks techead...i will email
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    altima_boy_2001
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    RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2008/03/09 22:31:41 (permalink)
    Well, I drew up a table of "cent" offsets to frequency since the cent isn't a familiar value to me. Maybe it will be useful to someone else as well.

    Cents-Offset-to-Frequency.pdf (2 pages)

    Note: Anything higher than 20 kHz I just left blank since it's ultrasonic.

    BTW, 12000 is a huge offset since the top frequency is 1024x the base frequency. 6000 is pushing it for base frequencies above 600 Hz since it's top frequency is 32x higher.
    #12
    AT
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    RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2008/03/10 00:42:57 (permalink)
    alvin,

    I've been runnning both DimPro and Rapture under vista with no problems. Dimpro probably has a higher cpu usage than XP, but since I'm running a dual core with vista now it doesn't seem to run badly.

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    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
     
    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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    alvin18
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    RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2008/03/10 01:37:49 (permalink)
    Thanks AT for reply, probably i will buy Dim Pro but i'll wait for Cakewalk's answer also.
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    b rock
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    RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2008/03/10 19:22:16 (permalink)
    I drew up a table of "cent" offsets to frequency since the cent isn't a familiar value to me. Maybe it will be useful to someone else as well.
    I think that it's great. I've never seen the relationship referenced quite like this. Thanks.
    Altima, would you mind if we uploaded this .pdf to the P5 Wiki/Rapture section, or linked to it remotely?
    Is that in the manual anywhere
    I may have missed it, but I don't think that there's any reference to the serial/parallel routings in the DSP section. There's a 'hint' at the bottom of p. 52 ("+" in the fourth routing), but I don't recall any explanations; in-depth or otherwise.

    Look to the chart on p. 23 of the Cakewalk Synthesizers: Presets to Power User - Update#2 September 2007 document. The original book has an inaccurate diagram (p. 310) that implies all serial routings in Rapture 1.0. The update .pdf goes into a little more detail, and the newer diagram clearly illustrates the whole DSP routing story.
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    altima_boy_2001
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    RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2008/03/10 20:50:07 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: b rock
    I drew up a table of "cent" offsets to frequency since the cent isn't a familiar value to me. Maybe it will be useful to someone else as well.
    I think that it's great. I've never seen the relationship referenced quite like this. Thanks.
    Altima, would you mind if we uploaded this .pdf to the P5 Wiki/Rapture section, or linked to it remotely?

    Sure, do what you want with it...copy, email, post, download, pirate, counterfeit, whatever you want...

    BTW, I got the frequency ratio numbers in the spreadsheet from this calculator site: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-centsratio.htm

    Is that in the manual anywhere
    I may have missed it, but I don't think that there's any reference to the serial/parallel routings in the DSP section. There's a 'hint' at the bottom of p. 52 ("+" in the fourth routing), but I don't recall any explanations; in-depth or otherwise.

    Look to the chart on p. 23 of the Cakewalk Synthesizers: Presets to Power User - Update#2 September 2007 document. The original book has an inaccurate diagram (p. 310) that implies all serial routings in Rapture 1.0. The update .pdf goes into a little more detail, and the newer diagram clearly illustrates the whole DSP routing story.
    So you hid the info in the routing diagrams......I won't be so easily fooled next time...



    ------
    BTW, I uploaded a bunch electronic diddies (Rapture/Z3ta brainstorming really) on my soundclick page:
    http://www.soundclick.com/altimaboy2001 and http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1329613
    post edited by altima_boy_2001 - 2008/03/10 21:40:42
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    CadeTremblay
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    Re: RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2016/10/14 10:54:39 (permalink)
    If you can help me ...I have the software "RAPTURE" a long time but I do not use it because the CUT LFO has never worked.
     
    The CUT LFO has never worked.
    In the past, I thought it was my computer that was too little power to operate RAPTURE.
     
    However, I just installed Sonar Platinum on my muscular new environment (4GHz i7, 16GB RAM; Windows 10). All the RAPTURE fonctions runs, and existing RAPTURE programs loaded run correctly. But the CUT LFO still does not work properly. I downloaded the demo RAPTURE PRO DEMO and have the same problem :
     
    Example, i noticed that copying a ELEMENT1 with CUTOFF1 function does not run in other ELEMENT # 2 to 6 (element not previously chained). For example, the PROGRAM "Italo (press c2 + c4 + mw)" : I saved ELEMENT1 and I put it back in a new PROGRAM or, I copy it in element #2, 3, 4, 5, or 6, and CUTOFF1 is copied but does not operate!
     
    What would the problem or the cause?  Thank you for your attention!
    #17
    CadeTremblay
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    Re: RE: Understanding Cut/Res EG in Rapture 2016/10/14 11:01:09 (permalink)
    Additional note: The CUT OFF works correctly for all programs RAPTURE (or RAPTURE PRO) initially loaded on my environment, the problem comes when I want to copy or create a new CUT OFF.
    #18
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