Universal Snap to Grid not practical

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Keni
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/16 20:07:26 (permalink)
cornieleous


dwcaldwell



On some thread this morning I posted the simple example of inserting and editing notes in the PRV.  Maybe there's a simpler way to do it, but it seems that three strokes are needed now when before one was needed: 1 - Draw tool to insert note. 2 - Click mouse wheel to get the tool set. 3 - Choose Smart tool to change the length if I need something different than the current Event Length setting.



You can just stay on the Smart Tool and Alt+click to insert a note in PRV.


Or double click. So far I mostly like the smart tools. I am now being more cautious as I am running up against problems doing heavy midi editing. A couple bugs or oddities I can't reproduce enough yet. Also, how the heck can you get the right click context menu to come up with smart tool engaged? They cannot expect me to press T, choose select, lasso the note, and right click to get it?! If so, this is going backwards, as I could simultaneously press d,s,e,etc. to toggle tools as my mouse flew around before. I hope I don't eat my earlier words saying smart tools were cool. I would try keybinding, but now those are global too, so I would have to reassign D for draw since thats the dock.

I am also momentarily miffed about losing the PRV control bar in the dedicated PRV, as I think the menus are sluggish by comparison for making settings that only apply to that view. I wonder if I can still keybind the draw tool note length? Used to be that you could use the number keys to specify 1/2, 1/4 1/16 notes, etc. and now I see that little pulldown built into smart tool - yet another mouse thing.

D.


Absolutely! Being forced back into file-menu-mining is not my idea of things getting better!

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cornieleous
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/17 02:16:43 (permalink)


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fred1996
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/30 23:25:18 (permalink)
HI~~

 I updated the X1a patch, But I found My"N" key can't work in Piano View!! I have to switch to Track View And Press "N" to make snap On/Off!

Anyone like me? or only me???
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ba_midi
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/30 23:32:25 (permalink)
fred1996


HI~~

 I updated the X1a patch, But I found My"N" key can't work in Piano View!! I have to switch to Track View And Press "N" to make snap On/Off!

Anyone like me? or only me???

MANY keybindings have been changed.  SnapGrid is now F12 and Shift F12.

And I'm going to make a statement that isn't nice:

I reallllly dislike this new global snaptogrid thing.   It is a major pain when doing recording and lots of editing in both TV and PRV.   I'm so sorry they took this approach and wish they hadn't.
Aside from the fact it's buggy as hell (can't remember its own settings).





Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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#64
fred1996
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/30 23:39:34 (permalink)
HI~~

  But I did set the key binding in Global binding that "N" to control Snap on/off.
And Before updated to X1a, I can use "N" to snap on/off in both TV, and PV.

Now I can't use "N" for snap in PV but work in TV,
And I can use "Snap to Whole note, snap to 1/16..." (i bind them for 1,2,3...Key)
in Piano View. Is this a bug??
 
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chrisharbin
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/30 23:41:34 (permalink)
fred1996


HI~~

 I updated the X1a patch, But I found My"N" key can't work in Piano View!! I have to switch to Track View And Press "N" to make snap On/Off!

Anyone like me? or only me???


N key does not work in PRV here and I'm on the original release (haven't done 1a yet)

Edit, I didn't know you had "N" keybinded, that probably changes things....I'll go back in and check.....
post edited by chrisharbin - 2010/12/30 23:46:24

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ba_midi
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/30 23:41:59 (permalink)
fred1996


HI~~

  But I did set the key binding in Global binding that "N" to control Snap on/off.
And Before updated to X1a, I can use "N" to snap on/off in both TV, and PV.

Now I can't use "N" for snap in PV but work in TV,
And I can use "Snap to Whole note, snap to 1/16..." (i bind them for 1,2,3...Key)
in Piano View. Is this a bug??
 
It's probably conflicting with the new keybinding.  You should consider knowing/learning them to see what they've changed and why.  Then decide which ones you want to change (or change back) otherwise there could be conflicts.





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chrisharbin
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/30 23:42:25 (permalink)
ba_midi




I reallllly dislike this new global snaptogrid thing.   It is a major pain when doing recording and lots of editing in both TV and PRV.   I'm so sorry they took this approach and wish they hadn't.
Aside from the fact it's buggy as hell (can't remember its own settings).


Agreed

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fred1996
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/30 23:48:06 (permalink)
HI ~~

  Thanks for all reply.

I tried change the Snap on/off key binding to "K"  key.

But Still work in Track view and not work in Piano View???

Why??
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chrisharbin
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/30 23:48:43 (permalink)
Yeah, disregard my post that it doesn't work in the original version with the keybinding it works.

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ba_midi
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/30 23:59:03 (permalink)
fred1996


HI ~~

  Thanks for all reply.

I tried change the Snap on/off key binding to "K"  key.

But Still work in Track view and not work in Piano View???

Why??


"K" is now the keybind to MUTE clips.

You really need to review the new keybinds so you know which ones are available, and if you DO change one of the defaults, you'll know why something doesn't work.



Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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ba_midi
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 00:00:00 (permalink)
chrisharbin


Yeah, disregard my post that it doesn't work in the original version with the keybinding it works.


And the important "Q" for Quantize doesn't even work in the PRV  :O



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fred1996
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 00:05:33 (permalink)
OK.... is so, conflicts with the default setting,
Then Should not be worked in both TV, and PV....why only not work in PRV?

And which key is not default set to any key binding?

because i tried to set snap on/off  to "[" key, same behavior...
#73
legobeats
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 00:16:17 (permalink)
The new snap to grid behaviour leads me to the question: Who on earth did the beta testing?! I'm only an amateur but it took me just 15 minutes to feel the pain about this silly "improvement". How could anyone at Cakewalk think this is a step forward? How could anyone test X1 without sending a feature request for changing snap to grid back to individual values for PRV and TV?

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#74
chrisharbin
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 00:21:33 (permalink)
It's a mystery. I'm not going to blame anyone but still I'm kinda baffled by some of the snap/quantize/etc.......I'm just not yet a inline PRV kinda guy right now, I'm very much a "double click it" kinda guy.



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yorolpal
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 00:27:32 (permalink)
It would be very interesting to see just how "Global Snap To" came into being.  Who (or what commitee) signed off on it?  How does he/she (or they) work?  Who can tell us, in plain english, how this "improves" or "speeds up" workflow.  I honestly would like to read this in a post from one of the Bakers.  It should prove quite illuminating.

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ba_midi
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 00:33:18 (permalink)
fred1996


OK.... is so, conflicts with the default setting,
Then Should not be worked in both TV, and PV....why only not work in PRV?

And which key is not default set to any key binding?

because i tried to set snap on/off  to "[" key, same behavior...


Then consider a bug.  Another one.


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ba_midi
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 00:34:44 (permalink)
yorolpal


It would be very interesting to see just how "Global Snap To" came into being.  Who (or what commitee) signed off on it?  How does he/she (or they) work?  Who can tell us, in plain english, how this "improves" or "speeds up" workflow.  I honestly would like to read this in a post from one of the Bakers.  It should prove quite illuminating.


I actually don't care who did or didn't sign off on it (though that might be interesting), I'm more concerned with IF they intend to leave it as is or DO something about ??



Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
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fred1996
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 00:44:10 (permalink)
In my thought over years..... they always force user to get used to "thier" thoughts.
Not let users to use their favorite way...

"Global binding" means I can use this binding in all condition, or I was wrong?
If default keys will conflict with users' binding, then they should not show the key in the window for us to bind....
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chrisharbin
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 00:55:05 (permalink)
fred1996


In my thought over years..... they always force user to get used to "thier" thoughts.
Not let users to use their favorite way...

"Global binding" means I can use this binding in all condition, or I was wrong?
If default keys will conflict with users' binding, then they should not show the key in the window for us to bind....


Agreed. One thing that is really good is how keybindings are in the preferences. It basically tells you what is and isn't being used. I guess in this case it would be a matter of new KB's not being known and simply adding one over it, but that should be rectifiable.

BUT, this idea that the snap settings cannot be used in the PRV and only the TV is really questionable. In some ways I'm tempted to load up 1a just to double check that, but alas......it seems like it's introducing problems that are kinda even more annoying.

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chrisharbin
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 00:55:37 (permalink)
btw, have we confirmed this to be the case in 1a??

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ba_midi
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 01:06:39 (permalink)
chrisharbin


btw, have we confirmed this to be the case in 1a??


If you mean the snap to grid thing, yes.  It also doesn't remember your settings if you exit and reload some projects.  Duh.


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jm24
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 01:20:42 (permalink)
Someone posted about how they are using screensets to overcome the global settings: each screen set retains its own settings, so he/she has created a number of such that are quickly switched by using the keyboard keys, as needed.
 
Powerful. But why do we have to discover this for ourselves?

Are there default screen sets that are already programmed for this? If not, should be. And it should be clearly stated in ALL support materials and videos.




#83
fred1996
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 01:20:53 (permalink)
FOLKS!!
I found the problem!

I unbind my "N" key to Snap on/off.

And "N" back to its default (Snap on/off).
And It worked in both TV and PRV....

Strange....

But I think the engineer should check the logic of key binding....
Becuase some functions you bind to some key but no worked... 



#84
ba_midi
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 01:39:36 (permalink)
jm24


Someone posted about how they are using screensets to overcome the global settings: each screen set retains its own settings, so he/she has created a number of such that are quickly switched by using the keyboard keys, as needed.
 
Powerful. But why do we have to discover this for ourselves?

Are there default screen sets that are already programmed for this? If not, should be. And it should be clearly stated in ALL support materials and videos.

I don't see using screenset switching as a means to manage snap to grid settings.  First, it's an extra step.

If I'm in the PRV (where I prefer 16ths as my default, vs whole in track view), I don't want to first have to change my entire screen just to get a grid going.  So that means type a # or click on the screenset chooser, then go back to where I wanted to be in the PRV anyway.  That's not progress to me.

Also - as it stands now, snap to grid is buggy anyway.  Screensets or not the solution to that.





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Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
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chrisharbin
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 01:45:28 (permalink)
fred1996


FOLKS!!
I found the problem!

I unbind my "N" key to Snap on/off.

And "N" back to its default (Snap on/off).
And It worked in both TV and PRV....

Strange....

But I think the engineer should check the logic of key binding....
Becuase some functions you bind to some key but no worked... 


Thanks for that. It's at least encouraging that you figured it out.

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chrisharbin
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 01:52:33 (permalink)
ba_midi


jm24


Someone posted about how they are using screensets to overcome the global settings: each screen set retains its own settings, so he/she has created a number of such that are quickly switched by using the keyboard keys, as needed.

Powerful. But why do we have to discover this for ourselves?

Are there default screen sets that are already programmed for this? If not, should be. And it should be clearly stated in ALL support materials and videos.

I don't see using screenset switching as a means to manage snap to grid settings.  First, it's an extra step.

If I'm in the PRV (where I prefer 16ths as my default, vs whole in track view), I don't want to first have to change my entire screen just to get a grid going.  So that means type a # or click on the screenset chooser, then go back to where I wanted to be in the PRV anyway.  That's not progress to me.

Also - as it stands now, snap to grid is buggy anyway.  Screensets or not the solution to that.


And! To add! I just discovered the "docked plugs undock with screensets" bug which just muddles the whole thing up even more :grrrr:

Even if for some reason we are forced in the future to have "snap" as a global feature (though that would be cruel) it's GOT to not have a mind of it's own! Yes, I can set the KB's for the most used settings but for me I'd like both.

16ths in the PRV for example and 1/4 for the TV. It makes more sense to me to have it that way instead of "oh snap, I just changed to the whole project to 16ths globally because x1 has a mind of it's own lol" thus creating the need for my already pea-sized brain to think even more lol!

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ba_midi
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 02:18:05 (permalink)
Even if for some reason we are forced in the future to have "snap" as a global feature (though that would be cruel) it's GOT to not have a mind of it's own! Yes, I can set the KB's for the most used settings but for me I'd like both.


If we really are stuck with this backwards approach to Snap To Grid, I'm gonna become a big b*tch ;)  It IS backwards.





Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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rbowser
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 10:50:44 (permalink)
ba_midi



If I'm in the PRV (where I prefer 16ths as my default, vs whole in track view), I don't want to first have to change my entire screen just to get a grid going.  So that means type a # or click on the screenset chooser, then go back to where I wanted to be in the PRV anyway.


Billy, along with most people, I'm sure there are glitches in the way the Grid is currently working in X1.  But I'm not understanding what you mean here - "...change my entire screen just to get a grid going..."

Don't you have the Control Bar with the Grid included in your PRV?  Since there's just the one central Grid, it's intended to be visible in every view so you can access it.  And the Control Bar is only one "C" click away, so even if you for some reason don't have it visible in a Screenset, it can easily pop up again.

Why are you having to change your entire screen to get to the grid--?

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#89
yorolpal
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Re:Universal Snap to Grid not practical 2010/12/31 11:28:51 (permalink)
Right...even when you're in the PRV you can mouse up to the Control Bar and change your Snap settings.  But, dang it, you shouldn't have to!!

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