ORIGINAL: d45
I'm a little confused as to why in a "top end DAW" the ability to export directly to a lossy, not particularly nice sounding, format is important or essential?
It is a nice to have of course but I would never classify it as an essential part of a pro audio application.

On the contrary, I think"professional" implies that you have all the tools to handle any situation your customer might find themselves in and be able to provide any results they might want. I think Cakewalk has excellent options for MP3 in Sonar: buy their encoder or use the instructions to use an external encoder.

ORIGINAL: Gerry

Not sure what Reason has to do with Sonar as they are totaly different applications. Top end Daw means to me a one stop application that allows you to compose, play, record and deliver it internet ready and that like it or not is MP3 in most cases. 8 Bucks is hardly going to kill the golden egg is it?

Not really, but when you multiply it out , when it is completely unnecassary, then it is flat outright a waste of cash a waste of cash.

As for Reason, its in use by more professionals than Sonar probably is (not that Im a Reason supporter, however I do own it), its in use by a huge amount of professionals.

Some top end DAW applications are only used for recording and dont allow you to compose. So what you might think of as a top end DAW someone else might not.

As for 8 bucks breaking the golden egg, it is a fact that as you increase the price of something , you do get less sales. So that $8 may have gained in the long term another 100 Sonar users worldwide. Not only is that 100 sales of Sonar, but it is also 100 sales of future upgrades, and possible buy ins for software instruments etc.

AS for deliverying something "internet ready", are you aware that most "professional musicians" pass over the work of mastering (and this would include mp3 mastering if required) over to a properly qualified and equipped mastering engineer (at least this is how most professionals do it). One of the reasons for this is that a mixing environment is hardly condusive to proper mastering listening setups.

Top end daw does not mean one stop application. For example there are situations where Pro Tools is required for compatibility, or that you need to use a program like Nuendo or Vegas because of certain video requirements.

Also to point out, there are people out there using Sonar with onboard audio. This will very often lead to bad productions. So a requirement is also there for a decent audio interface. As far as I know , Sonar Producer Edition doesnt come with an audio interface for you to use. So it definitely does not come with everything you need to make professional internet ready songs.

The high end protools rigs do come with an audio interface (a pretty damn big one, with a computer as well), and they sell for a lot more than several copies of Sonar. So tell me why a high end DAW program HAS to have a feature that you think is completely necassary, yet others dont.

It's really only a matter of personal opinion. You have stated yours and I have stated mine. Personally I would rather that I didnt pay for this feature every update and with every program that I have

ORIGINAL: Gerry
8 Bucks is hardly going to kill the golden egg is it?

8 bucks every time you upgrade SONAR. So, if you upgraded SONAR since the first version, you'd have spent $56 on the same mp3 encoder. Sound fair?

Gerry, there is no need to be as aggressive, as I said Im only stating my point of view, which although it differs from yours is no less valid.

As for my music, you can check out my mp3s on www.soundclick.com/syrath, on the page there are only a few I recommend that are worth listening to however I keep the good, the bad and the ugly up there. Im far from being an excellent musician, although I did get runner up (3 months iirc) in the Project5 featured musician of the month, as well as holding the no1 spot on the soundclick IDM chart 3 or 4 times.

However when it comes to my music I dont think its a competition where we compare how good our tunes are. This does not make either of us more professional. Im just a guy that plays a bit of guitar (also, although not on any of those tracks), that likes to use the comptuer to make music.

For a living though I do DAW tutorial video production and voice over work. As a result of this I do have a lot of "professional" DAW software, and as I said Reason, Cubase ( the "industry standard"), Sony Vegas, Logic Audio Platinum V 4.5, or any of the other software I have.

It is just that I dont think that mp3 encoding is high up on my priority list for making any of the professional things that I do. It is only useful for my amateur music, for me to upload it to the soundclick website. Hardly a professional usage if you ask me.

You use the anology that 8$ doesnt break the golden egg, well neither does $20, so your own argument is flawed here.

$8 for every song making product and every update that I own does however add up. Id be paying about $100 per year on mp3 encoders(exaggerated but not by much).

Professional does not imply that you have the tools to produce internet ready music, a professional DAW has the capability of making professional Digital Audio, this does not need to include MP3, although it is definitely handy for many that may want to use an internet delivery system.

However even with low bandwidth these days uploading a 16 bit or 24 bit 44.1 khz file doesnt take that long, neither does downloading it. So in a professional hand over from one person to the next having it in full CD audio quality or better is more prefered by professionals than mp3, certainly in my experience as a DAW tutorial video producer and voice over "artist".

Those that know the work I have done will probably agree that if I had encoded my voice overs to mp3, that it would definitely be undesirable .

No need to apologise, its just that as always there are two ways of looking at it. On one hand CW isnt charging you for it, and on the other the rest of the people include (and have a higher price of software as a result). When you upgrade a CW product you do get the full version and not an upgrade disc, I assume this is to minimise costs since producing 2 runs for the discs would cost more.