Unmute Take Lane to Record another

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brconflict
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2013/10/13 23:07:33 (permalink)

Unmute Take Lane to Record another

Is there not a way to unmute a Take Lane to record another in X3? Not everyone wants recording takes to be automatic. Sometimes the vocalists like recording line by line vs. take by take. Right now I'm having to keep comping at the Track Level not the Take Lane level. This was one of my frustrations with Take Lanes in X2, that I can't play back another Take Lane while recording a new one (manually). Thanks!

Brian
 
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    brconflict
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    Re: Unmute Take Lane to Record another 2013/10/14 08:57:59 (permalink)
    (deleted text; wrong thread)
    post edited by brconflict - 2013/10/14 11:21:10

    Brian
     
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    stevec
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    Re: Unmute Take Lane to Record another 2013/10/14 12:27:10 (permalink)
    If you're using Punch In/Out there's a preference for muting the previous take.  But in X3, maybe it's better to use Sound on Sound recording mode vs. Comp?
     
     

    SteveC
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    #3
    brconflict
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    Re: Unmute Take Lane to Record another 2013/10/14 12:41:48 (permalink)
    Yeah, I found the Auto-Punch Mute option. Unfortunately, using Punch in and Punch out is way too tedious for what we're doing. It's a lot of work to set up punch points for each line. It's much easier to simply drive between tracks and Take Lanes of each track. What makes sense here in any of the settings I've found or seen is that all of the comping and multiple takes are best suited for a guitarist wanting to keep the recorder going to nail that perfect take. For a busy vocalist, who is screaming or yelling their lines at the top of their lungs, looping is definitely not the way to record them.  
     
    It's an understatement how revolutionary our line-by-line (not take by take) recording technique is to scream-o or fast-punk vocals. We're nailing the takes quickly and effectively without wearing out the vocalist. But with that said, it would greatly help accuracy and flow if the vocalist can hear the previous line just before landing the next line. Being able to switch back and forth between Take Lanes would be more efficient than switching between tracks. But so far, the only way we could figure out how to do this was to go back to tracking between tracks as we did in X2/X1. We simply could not find a way to have Sonar play the unmuted Take Lanes when tracking a new lane. I personally don't think it's possible in X3 yet. I'd love to be wrong, though. Thanks!

    Brian
     
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    #4
    stevec
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    Re: Unmute Take Lane to Record another 2013/10/14 12:47:37 (permalink)
    Not that I've tried, but using Sound on Sound still mutes the previous take?  I can understand why the new take would go to a new lane if there's overlap with the previous take, but I'm not getting why that previous take would be muted.    Hmmm...

    SteveC
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    #5
    brconflict
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    Re: Unmute Take Lane to Record another 2013/10/14 12:52:17 (permalink)
    Yeah, Sound On Sound also muted. I don't think it's a setting. I think Sonar simply does not allow other Takes to be played back while recording another. I've not seen where it is possible, but had hoped it was by now.
     
    Sidenote: The new comping selecting method is confusing if you're used to pressing "K" over a highlighted clip. It definitely takes some getting familiar with, but boy it made me punch some new holes in my proverbial wall. I'd like to disable all Comping tools when tracking. They rock when mixing or comping, but not tracking.

    Brian
     
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    NeuroRon
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    Re: Unmute Take Lane to Record another 2013/10/14 12:59:15 (permalink)
    Sound on sound does not mute the takes - I changed to that setting (under one of the record menus) and I am able to hear the prev lines. Sometimes I just keep recording multiple harmony lines on the same track for convenience [even if later I move them to separate tracks], so I need to hear each previous take and using SoS, it works just fine

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    #7
    brconflict
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    Re: Unmute Take Lane to Record another 2013/10/14 13:13:25 (permalink)
    Well, crud. I'm not sure why this isn't working for me. Now, would I be able to create a new Take Lane manually and hear the previous one? Recording (even with Sound on Sound) on top of the previous Take doesn't visually give me a warm fuzzy yet. Plus, with this way of recording, comping is being done while we're tracking, saving even more time.

    Brian
     
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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re: Unmute Take Lane to Record another 2013/10/14 13:38:26 (permalink)
    I've replied in the other thread but I can confirm that "Sound on sound" does not mute previous takes. I think I understand how you are working 'cos it sounds similar to how I record some of my harder to sing songs.
     
    With "sound on sound" as the recording mode I can hear previous takes as lead ins and the next line goes to a new take lane.
     
    If you aren't seeing (or rather hearing) that behaviour something is wrong somewhere. Stab in the dark but you haven't got the track muted have you?
    #9
    brundlefly
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    Re: Unmute Take Lane to Record another 2013/10/14 14:22:24 (permalink)
    As mentioned in the other thread. Punch will mute previous takes when looping, regardless of the record mode or setting of Mute Previous Takes.  If you want to hear previous takes with Sound on Sound mode, you either need to be not looping or not punching.

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    brconflict
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    Re: Unmute Take Lane to Record another 2013/10/14 14:48:39 (permalink)
    Thanks for the feedback. No punching or looping employed. We worked on this for about 45 minutes before giving up on it for the night, returning to the two-track method. My question now is, do I have no choice but to rely on Sonar to create new Take Lanes with Sound on Sound, or can I create them myself and do the recording manually, meanwhile not having muted previous Take Lanes?
     
    I'm a very hands-on, don't trust software kind of person. I still don't trust Sonar's automatic capabilities, and it could be a long time before I do. I want to drive the session instead, because I can work faster, more effectively that way.
     
    Thanks!

    Brian
     
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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re: Unmute Take Lane to Record another 2013/10/14 14:58:35 (permalink)
    Brian - just to clarify - are these takes in the same region that you want to hear or previous takes? I thought I understood what you were doing but brundlefly (in the other thread) has made me think perhaps I'm mis-understanding.
     
    If you have takes in previous regions that you want to hear (as cues) for the next line then "sound on sound" as recording mode will allow you to do that while creating new takes at the current position, whether you are looping or not. If looping though it won't automatically mute the previous takes. You need comping mode to do that which will also mute the cue takes.
     
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Unmute Take Lane to Record another 2013/10/14 15:18:21 (permalink)
    Just to answer the question about creating your own lanes: It appears to me that SONAR will only use the most recently created lane for a new recording. So you can't, for example, create four lanes for the four takes you plan do do and have SONAR automatically start with the first available lane.

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    brconflict
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    Re: Unmute Take Lane to Record another 2013/10/14 15:21:56 (permalink)
    Karl,
       Thanks for asking. Let me step through just to simplify from my end.
    Expand a new vocal track to show Take Lanes (1 Lane to start).
    1) Record a take on a new track of lyric line 1 (first line on the lyric sheet). Stop. Disarm Lane 1.
    2) Click the "+" on the Take Lane to create a new Lane.
    3) Set the cursor about halfway back through the lyric Line 1 above.
    4) With the first Lane unmuted, arm Lane 2 and click record to grab lyric line 2. Stop.
    5) Now disarm Lane 2 and arm Lane 1 to record lyric line 3.
     
    Record takes back forth like this (odd-numbered lyric lines on Lane 1 and even-numbered lyric lines on Lane 2).
     
    So, inherently, what I'm trying to accomplish is limiting the number of Take Lanes to 2, but record multiple lyrical lines back and forth because they either overlap words or they're just too intense to get them all in a contiguous performance.
     
    Hope this helps. Thanks!
     
     
     
     

    Brian
     
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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re: Unmute Take Lane to Record another 2013/10/14 16:09:59 (permalink)
    Right, got it. I think that'll be hard if not impossible to constrain to two take lanes with alternate takes going into alternating take lanes but there is a work round of sorts that requires a little bit of post record editing.
     
    Close take lanes completely
    Choose "Sound on sound" as recording mode and uncheck "Create new lanes on overlap"
    Press record and record line 1. Stop.
    Set now time as required press record - record line 2. Press stop
    Set now time as required press record - record line 3. Press stop ..... repeat as required
     
    When you've finished you'll have two take lanes with one clip on one and all the others on another. Ctrl click every other clip from 3 onwards. Hold shift key down and drag selected clips onto the empty (except one clip) take lane.
     
    That'll give you two take lanes with alternating clips in each one and you'll be able to hear the previous clip as a cue take while recording. Maybe not ideal but it works.
     
    HTH
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    brconflict
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    Re: Unmute Take Lane to Record another 2013/10/14 19:16:07 (permalink)
    Karl, thanks again for your help and input. I'll give this a whirl tonight. I want to have a better process down before they come to finish up vocals. It was my fault we didn't finish the session last night because of all the troubleshooting. Maybe what you're suggesting, although it doesn't sound visually easy to keep track of, may work well enough to call it a solid workaround. I'll report back.
     
     

    Brian
     
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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re: Unmute Take Lane to Record another 2013/10/15 02:23:46 (permalink)
    It'll work with lanes open I just assumed you'd want them out of the way though.
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