Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Not working
2015/06/23 11:08:46
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For the luddites due warning and full background/references was supplied on the very first post so people should be able to make an informed decision themselves. People should read the technical articles and research themselves, and as I stated later on early information is often misinformed (more ludditehood), and ow windows often sets this as default nowadays (even with systems it previously disabled). As I stated it may not work for everybody, always backup.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/23 11:16:22
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Not working
2015/06/23 11:17:41
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Luddites can look it up themselves I've provided full background. As I stated windows would previously disable it, but now it gets enabled by default. Yup windows knows best but once installed leaves settings like this alone regardless of a change in policy or bios. Some systems may not benefit, always backup. I've provided links so people can make their own informed (deluddited) decision. As I said do it at your own risk and back up.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/23 11:27:04
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kevinwal
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Re: Not working
2015/06/23 12:50:49
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Doktor Avalanche Luddites can look it up themselves I've provided full background.
I don't think it's Luddite to exercise caution when monkeying with BIOS settings and boot sector parameters, it's healthy caution. The unwary can seriously brick their system. It's not the ignorant that damage stuff, it's the people who think they know what they're doing but don't really. I spend a lot of time in both categories myself. Many folks on this forum are not IT pro's (I believe you are or were, right?) So all the reading in the world isn't going to help them make an informed decision, particularly with this tweak when even well-informed IT folks disagree on whether or not to use it. IMHO, if you have experience that can interpret the literature in such a way that helps non-technical users with the decision, you get brownie points in heaven if you do so. Doktor Avalanche As I stated windows would previously disable it, but now it gets enabled by default. Yup windows knows best but once installed leaves settings like this alone regardless of a change in policy or bios. Some systems may not benefit, always backup. I've provided links so people can make their own informed (deluddited) decision. As I said do it at your own risk and back up.
Windows does not enable HPET by default anymore. It enables it when specific circumstances dictate that it should, such as when it determines that the CPU doesn't support the invariant time stamp counter. As I said, newer motherboards are removing the option to enable/disable the HPET since newer CPU's will reliably provide invariant TSC support. This is only part of the story though, and says nothing at all about how your DAW will perform with the settings flipped to one state or another. Most folks will likely notice zero difference in performance, so they need to weigh the possibility of mucking things up using these commands and settings against that. Others see some good performance increases, so it's not a snake-oil tweak by any measure. Kudos to you for uncovering it and bringing it to the table, don't just drop it in our laps and run now when it's getting interesting.
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John T
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Re: Not working
2015/06/23 13:13:00
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kevinwal Most folks will likely notice zero difference in performance, so they need to weigh the possibility of mucking things up using these commands and settings against that.
Aye, having had this on for a couple of weeks now, it's made no tangible difference for me. No problems caused, but no noticeable improvements either.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Not working
2015/06/23 14:03:57
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Yup if it doesn't work for you, you can easily undo,although if there's no noticeable difference for you in theory it may be better. People who have it enabled in the BIOS and install windows 10 from scratch (not upgrade) I'd be interested on how windows defaults for them (any different?). If I were to install windows 10 straight away on release (I won't myself) I'd probably leave it alone till then. Upgrades will probably be left alone I suspect.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Not working
2015/06/23 14:07:40
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@kevinwal I've said backup and do this at your own risk three times now, and here I am saying it again for a fourth time. From the opening post and I've highlighted it. Hopefully the people who have read it may have got the message. I think it's wrong to say most people won't notice a difference. You are assuming everybody is running similar configurations. You don't know until you try it.As I have said several times now for me windows defaults to this, except for earlier installations that needed to be corrected. Of course not everybody will be the same as me, nor do I assume it. It will work for some and not for others.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/23 14:22:48
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kevinwal
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Re: Not working
2015/06/23 15:43:34
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Doktor Avalanche @kevinwal I've said backup and do this at your own risk three times now, and here I am saying it again for a fourth time. From the opening post and I've highlighted it. Hopefully the people who have read it may have got the message.
You're not understanding what I've been talking about in my past few posts if you feel the need to say this, and since I've been the one talking, it's clearly my poor wording that's gotten us here. To be clear, I'm not arguing with you, nor is my agreeing with a guy's concern that this may be a problematic tweak for some people any kind of statement that you are misguiding folks. I'm just trying to share the information I've discovered about this tweak and am hoping you'll also continue to share what you know. Aside from pointing out one or two facts my reading tells me you got wrong, I'm not really understanding how I ruffled your feathers, but I apologize if I worded something poorly and got misunderstood as a result. Doktor Avalanche I think it's wrong to say most people won't notice a difference. You are assuming everybody is running similar configurations.
To the first point, you may well be correct. There are a huge number of moving parts to this and I very likely don't know the whole picture. Let me amend that statement to read, if you are running an i5 or i7 based system or a late model AMD processor, you probably won't see a difference, although you might. To your second point, I am not assuming anything. I've thrown all kinds of qualifiers into the mix in previous posts about the relative age of system components and processor types so I hope that given that information, people will be able to make some prediction about how the tweak will behave on their box and act accordingly. My statement was more an expression based on my experience that most such tweaks provide little improvement to whatever situation you're trying to address give the conflicting and ambivalent nature of the stuff I've read on this tweak. Doktor Avalanche You don't know until you try it. As I have said several times now for me windows defaults to this, except for earlier installations that needed to be corrected. Of course not everybody will be the same as me, nor do I assume it. It will work for some and not for others.
And as I have said several times now, Windows does not default to any setting, it analyzes your hardware and chooses an appropriate setting. This isn't my opinion, it's a statement of fact (insofar as such things can be determined.) Look, this is a technical discussion, and I hope it stays one. I'm not interested in getting pissy with anyone about anything, so if you've taken any of my comments in that vein, I assure you that it was not my intention to come off that way, and I will assume you don't mean to either.
post edited by kevinwal - 2015/06/23 15:50:52
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Not working
2015/06/23 16:25:00
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I encourage people to read the articles and not to listen to any of us, and do their research. Bottom line. I'm just posting pointers people can make their own minds up, again I give the same warnings as earlier. We agree windows chooses the appropriate setting and that's down the bios setting and what windows thinks is appropriate with the hardware it sees. As time has gone by windows has revised what it defaults to (for some hardware) and has no doubt revised the the code for the driver perhaps to workaround defects or non standard specifics in the hardware. As I said earlier I have observed two entirely different windows defaults with exactly the same hardware. The only difference was the time the OS was installed. Later installs enabled it even though it was always enabled in the bios all the time.That's just my experience. I don't expect everybody to be the same as me. Anyway I've already stated this earlier and given other possible reasons why the default changed (e.g. chipset drivers, bios updates, windows codebase updated). Cheers.. FYI a default setting is what is set once windows starts up for the very first time. Of course settings can vary depending on the hardware configuration and whether it has had a previous installation base or not, or indeed can vary depending on the build of windows installed.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/23 16:59:39
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Not working
2015/06/23 16:54:13
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BobF
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Re: Not working
2015/06/23 16:57:52
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☄ Helpfulby Doktor Avalanche 2015/06/23 20:43:31
Alex - I finally got around to trying this out. My current PC has been running with this enabled in bios, but not set in Winderz. I set it a few minutes ago and rebooted. My boot time was considerably ("WOW") faster and everything feels snappier. I won't pass final judgment until I run it for a while, but it looks great right now. Good Find - thanks for posting it.
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Re: Not working
2015/06/24 10:46:50
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OldTimerNewComer
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HPET Revisited
2015/07/02 03:10:01
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RE: bcdedit /set useplatformclock true (tweak)... Full Disclosure: I have, in previous posts advocated for this tweak. After a lot of research and testing I am back to report as promised. Program I used to check deferred procedure calls was DPC Checker. Monitored the CPU with CPUID. Motherboard is same as in sig, an Asus Sabertooth Z77(very good board). Processor: i7 2600k. Memory: 32gb DDR3 memory at 1600. I tried numerous configurations with HPET on/off, C states on/off, TurboBoost on/off. I kept Core Parking off throughout testing. ...The long and short of it is that I got more of a placebo effect from initial testing than I was willing to admit. DPC never got below 145 nanoseconds no matter what configuration I tried with HPET on, with spikes as high as 1500 nanoseconds under heavy loads. I also experienced several random crashes to Restart which has never occurred previously. With HPET off, and TurboBoost and C states on, DPC range went to 45-125 under all loads. With HPET off, and TurboBoost and C states off, DPC range was 25-145. However; I found that my lowest DPC range of 25-45 occurred, under ALL loads when using the X.M.P. Memory Timings built in to my ASUS board, along with keeping HPET, C states and TurboBoost off. This is my present Configuration and it's working great with Foxboro. I promised an honest review, and here it is. This is just MY opinion on MY system, and henceforth I neither advocate for or discourage it's use. Make your own tests and use your own judgments. Mel EDIT: I forgot to mention that my MB has an HPET setting which defaults to ON, which I left that way throughout testing, so no, I did not test with HPET Disabled on the motherboard.
post edited by OldTimerNewComer - 2015/07/02 04:30:40
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thomasabarnes
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Re: HPET Revisited
2015/07/02 07:05:05
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OldTimerNewComer However; I found that my lowest DPC range... under ALL loads when using the X.M.P. Memory Timings...along with keeping HPET, C states and TurboBoost off.
My system performs with the lowest DPC latency when doing the same as you posted in the excerpt I quoted of your post. (My system specs: Core i7 920 @ 2.66 GHz, Gigabyte EX58-UD5,24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz). Something I found that is interesting with my system is that under heaviest loads running with an ASIO buffer setting of 8.71 ms at 44.1/16, DPC Latency Checker shows readings in the range of 21us-10us, but if I lower the ASIO buffer setting to 5.80 ms at 44.1/16bit, DPC Latency Checker shows readings in the range of 100us-74us. Playback is smooth at either ASIO buffer setting size (with no dropouts, pops, or stuttering, etc). I guess the strain that the lower buffer size puts on the CPU causes the higher DPC latency readings. I didn't expect higher readings. I expected lower readings. I find the higher readings (because I lowered the ASIO buffer setting) to be interesting. EDIT: To clarify, I had HPET off. You may get lower DPC latency readings if you turn off HPET.
post edited by thomasabarnes - 2015/07/02 07:18:32
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mettelus
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Re: HPET Revisited
2015/07/02 09:06:26
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I reloaded this machine from scratch a week ago and saw similar (also ASUS with same CPU). For me I set XMP to 103, HPET enabled, Turbo enabled, core parking (all power options) disabled (in system). HPET comes up automatically in the system. I think this is really more a system by system thing. XMP was the only real BIOS change over "defaults."
Overall common things seem to be disabling core parking/power management, and disabling services with automatic functionality - win search, LAN auto detects - again is something to verify/adjust on a system basis.
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OldTimerNewComer
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Re: HPET Revisited
2015/07/02 13:03:34
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thomasabarnes
OldTimerNewComer However; I found that my lowest DPC range... under ALL loads when using the X.M.P. Memory Timings...along with keeping HPET, C states and TurboBoost off.
My system performs with the lowest DPC latency when doing the same as you posted in the excerpt I quoted of your post. (My system specs: Core i7 920 @ 2.66 GHz, Gigabyte EX58-UD5,24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz). Something I found that is interesting with my system is that under heaviest loads running with an ASIO buffer setting of 8.71 ms at 44.1/16, DPC Latency Checker shows readings in the range of 21us-10us, but if I lower the ASIO buffer setting to 5.80 ms at 44.1/16bit, DPC Latency Checker shows readings in the range of 100us-74us. Playback is smooth at either ASIO buffer setting size (with no dropouts, pops, or stuttering, etc). I guess the strain that the lower buffer size puts on the CPU causes the higher DPC latency readings. I didn't expect higher readings. I expected lower readings. I find the higher readings (because I lowered the ASIO buffer setting) to be interesting. EDIT: To clarify, I had HPET off. You may get lower DPC latency readings if you turn off HPET.
I will give that a try... Every little bit helps. Mel
post edited by OldTimerNewComer - 2015/07/02 13:10:11
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: HPET Revisited
2015/09/21 15:58:38
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Just a bootnote. I did a wipe and clean a clean Windows 10 installation with HPT enabled in the BIOS. Windows 10 enabled High Precision Event Timer in device manager by default.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/09/21 16:07:39
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