Updated - "See Me"

This song is one of my more ambitious efforts, lots of instruments, lots of vocals, lots of keys. For me this is a lot of balls to juggle. I'm actually kind of lost in making a good sounding mix and I'm at the point where I'm chasing my tail. I'm at the point where I can't hear if it's any good or not. I could use your critical listening skills to guide me through this nest of snakes. Everything here is fair game for your critique.
 
Your help is greatly appreciated!
 
Update!
---------
This is the original: 
https://soundcloud.com/kevin-ibsen/see-me
 
This is the updated version based on feedback from you fine people. Note that this is a 192kbps mp3.
https://soundcloud.com/kevin-ibsen/see-me-v2
 
One of the issues I'm having is knowing when I've compressed things too much. I think I'm beginning to get it, but I sure could use some help on this because I think my ears are telling me it's not quite right but I'm not sure what to do to make it right.
 
Also, I read somewhere that when you're mixing your own vocals, turn them up to where you think they ought to be, then turn them up "one click more." Not sure where I read that, but I did it anyway. 
 
Thanks for your help so far, and thanks in advance for listening again!
 
Kevin
 
 

Thanks for the good feedback, Dan. Gosh, I wish could still hear highhats. :)

Thanks, Whack! Dig your new stuff.

Not as fond of the song as I am of your voice, Kevin.  It's really ez on the ears.

daryl1968
Hi Kevin
Really like the song/instrumentation/performances.
I would agree with what Dan says above re the mix

I appreciate it, Daryl. I'm trying now to figure out how much compression is too much. My ears aren't as well educated as many here and I am particularly compression-detection challenged. It may take a few iterations.

daryl1968

kevinwal

daryl1968
Hi Kevin
Really like the song/instrumentation/performances.
I would agree with what Dan says above re the mix

I appreciate it, Daryl. I'm trying now to figure out how much compression is too much. My ears aren't as well educated as many here and I am particularly compression-detection challenged. It may take a few iterations.

There's an ointment for CDS (Compression-detection-syndrome) these days Kevin - you can buy it over the counter.... 

If there really were such a thing I'd have cases of it already. lol.

Sounds good here, I agree with the observation made by Dan and seconded by Daryl,  Thanks for sharing.  I am sure a last couple of tweaks will get you there, but I would suggest giving your ears a rest for at least 72 hours before you attack it again.

dcumpian
Kevin,
 
One thing I should have mentioned is, depending on whether you are using any limiters or not, you may have to push some instruments back to raise the vocals enough to unmask them. Compression will help them from getting lost, but the vocals definitely need to come up as well. It's almost as if you mixed this with the vocals as an afterthought, or, you don't like the sound of your own voice.
 
If you have limiter(s) on the master, you may have enough headroom to raise the vocals alone, but based on what I'm hearing, I doubt there will be enough.
 
You can solve this in one of two ways: 1) use offset mode to lower everything, then raise the vocals, or 2) route all vocals and all instruments to two separate submix buses so you can control them separately. Your levels are pretty good on the instruments so I don't want you to have to remix them, lol.
 
Regards,
Dan

Dan, thanks for the pointers. I've already got submix buses so lowering everything is a piece of cake. I'll give that a try. You nailed one point, I'm not the biggest fan of my own voice, so I should probably have someone else mix my stuff. :)
 
Kevin

Mannynyagain
Cool tune. Like the instrumentation, the little bass solo line, guitars are really nice (good parts - tastefully played) . Love the harmonies - there's a CSN vibe in there (which is good as far as I am concerned - I can almost picture Graham Nash at the mic).
 
A fun song - has a good vibe and positive energy. 

Thank you, sir!

stevec
Overall, sounds pretty good here!   The mix is dense but still fairly clear and open.   I think you did a good job finding a place for all the layers.  And those layers, BTW, are very nice.  Catchy and well played all around.   I do agree though with the vocal compression comments just to bring them forward a bit. 
 
One thing I didn't see mentioned was the click on the kick drum - on the cheap headphones I'm listening on the click is pretty noticeable.   But it's a nit.  

Wow, I never noticed that. In addition to being compression-detection challenged, my high frequency hearing is pretty ragged. I'm going to take a listen for it. How does one go about dealing with kick click? Gate? EQ? Thanks for the good words, steve!

stevec
You're welcome!
 
I typically isolate the kick and then try editing the source first; e.g., if it's a drum synth I'll try adjusting the kick parameters to round out the tone.  If that's not an option, my second choice would be a dynamic EQ to help tame those peaks when they happen (usually by sweeping with a boost and/or analyzer).  Last, I'd go with a straight parametric EQ, again sweeping with a significant boost to help find specific offending frequency(s), and also using an analyzer if needed.     But that's all just me.  

 
And that, folks, is the difference between a hacker like me and someone with an actual clue. Thank you again, steve!

dcumpian
You could also try a transient shaper to soften the attack. It might help round off some of the clickiness.
 
Regards,
Dan

Thanks, Dan, I was just wondering about that. Your feedback is great, thanks again. 

Thanks for listening, LJ, I really appreciate you taking the time to give it a spin as well as the kind words. Tempo is always the first hurdle, yeah? This song in particular was re-recorded at four different tempos before I settled on this one. Again, thanks!

kennywtelejazz
Kevin , 
Your song has some very nice elements in it …
Your voice reminds me of Roger Daltry in places .
Love the Organ playing  very progressive floating over the top when it plays .(nice chops )
Yeah, I like the overall vibe of the song , it has a Classic Rock sound mixed in with a Southern Rock type of thing going on . Dual Lead guitars Yeah …
It must have been tough coming up with all this …Dan made some good points ..
I dug it for what it was …a good listen 
 
all the best ,
 
Kenny
 

Kenny, thanks so much for giving the tune a listen, I appreciate your time and ears. On a side note, I've been giving your "Advanced Guitar Made Easy" videos quite a bit of time. I love your playing, but I so appreciate  your willingness to share what you know, great stuff!
 
I know the arrangement has its issues, primarily in the performance, but also in the structure itself. My abilities progress apace but they generally don't keep up with the music I want to create, so in the end, for me a song is compromise between what I want it to be and what I can actually pull off. This song is a great example of that principle more than most of the others I've worked up, but I know it's lacking in ways that I don't quite understand how to address yet. Climbing onto the shoulders of Sonar takes me a lot farther than I would have believed possible, but the feedback from guys like you is what helps the most.
 
The only bits I've actually performed here are the guitars, bass and vocals. The drums are judicious selection and alteration of drum patterns in various AD midi packs. The keys are not played in real time, they are either played and heavily edited, or completely created via point and click in the PRV.  Sonar's sequencer thanks you for the compliment on its chops. 
 
Thanks again!

Kevin, you have some good suggestions for the mix, so I won't go there.  As for the bass drum click, if you have the Anderton collection of fx chains, then he put in a great tool for the bass drum; it's the Kickmaster which can be found in your browser under FX Chain>Anderton collection>Drums>KickMaster.  It works wonders.  
 
As for the song, I love it!  It reminds me of the British invasion.  Btw, I see you live near the Buffalo River, which is my favorite river in the Ozarks.  I've spent several nights in Rogers over the years, and I always stop at the breakfast bar at Shoney's on my way out of town.  Perhaps we'll run into each other someday ;)