jayrmac
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Upgrade Questions
Hi,
Would appreciate some advice about updating my PC. I have an Intel Core2 Duo CPU (E6550 @ 2.33 GHz), with 2 MB RAM, and a 320 GB internal hard drive. I'd like it to be a bit faster and have a bit more memory. (I've currently used about 2/3 of the 320 GB, and MC4 seems to crash quite a bit.) I could buy a new PC but then I would have to re-purchase the software that doesn't allow multiple installs. I thought upgrading might be cheaper. I have a few questions:
(a) I've heard that updating components is not a good idea - basically, that my current set-up has matching components, and that updating any one of them requires updating the others too. True?
(b) Following on from the above point, if I got a faster, multi-core processor, would I have to upgrade the motherboard, graphics card, etc?
(c) Would I run into any licensing problems with my existing software if I upgraded my processor, motherboard, etc?
(d) I read in a previous post (by Bitflipper) that going from 2 MB RAM to 6MB probably wouldn't result in a huge performance gain, so it's the processor speed rather than the RAM I need to improve, or the number of cores?
(e) I can buy a Glyph Portagig 320 GB, 7200 RPM, external (USB 2) HD for US$338. Any thoughts?
Any comments would be appreciated.
J
MC4/5/6, Windows 7 Pro x64 (+SP1), Intel Xeon E3 Quadcore 3.3 GHz CPU, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, 1 x 500 GB SATA (System), 1 x 1TB SATA (Samples), 1 x 1TB SATA (Audio), E-MU 0404 USB2.0 interface, Miditech keyboard
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slartabartfast
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Re:Upgrade Questions
2010/10/14 13:01:43
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but then I would have to re-purchase the software that doesn't allow multiple installs Aside from OEM Windows and the bloatware that comes installed on new production PC's what software are you talking about? If you paid for copy protected software that will not allow you to move to a new machine, you have either bought from crooks, or the company went out of business and took their authorization service down with the ship. At some point, you are going to want a new machine, or this one will crap out. The ability to move software without excessive difficulty is one of the key features to check before buying.
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gcruz
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Re:Upgrade Questions
2010/10/14 19:03:46
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If you have the OS disk and the number you can install it in the new machine. If you are using Vista or Win 7, make sure you disconnect your old machine from the internet. When installing you might have some problem activating but calling costumer service you can fix that........DO NOT USE THE OS IN BOTH MACHINE AT THE SAME TIME........
For the harware ( video ) you can use it in your new pc if you are using PCI EXPRESS...if it older than that... buy a new one....same with sound card and hard drive.
For music production....an intel i7 processor will work super good
Hope this help you
Asus P6T Motherboard Intel LGA1366 Platform Intel Quad Core™i7 920 Processor 6 gigs DDR3 Ram Windows 7pro 64 bit Roland GW-7 workstation Korg Padkontrol M-Audio U Control Uc 33 1010 LT Delta Sound Card Project 5 V2.51 Sonar X1 Producer Komplete 5 Garritan 4
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jayrmac
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Re:Upgrade Questions
2010/10/14 19:52:46
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Many thanks for your reply Slart. I use mainly Kontakt (from Native Instruments), and different (reputable) third-party Kontakt-based libraries - e.g. Symphobia. The latter is quite expensive, but allows two installs. I also have Guitar Rig (NI), Amplitube (IK Multimedia) and some other synths and plug-ins - all from reputable companies. And of course MC 4.
I just assumed that this software was for use on one machine. How do the companies know I'm not installing it on a mate's PC?
If installing the software on a new machine is not a problem, my question becomes a bit simpler: should I update to a faster multi-core processor, extra RAM and external hard drive, or go for a new PC?
Be grateful for any thoughts.
J
MC4/5/6, Windows 7 Pro x64 (+SP1), Intel Xeon E3 Quadcore 3.3 GHz CPU, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, 1 x 500 GB SATA (System), 1 x 1TB SATA (Samples), 1 x 1TB SATA (Audio), E-MU 0404 USB2.0 interface, Miditech keyboard
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jayrmac
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Re:Upgrade Questions
2010/10/14 20:17:50
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Many thanks gcruz. I've been thinking about this the wrong way. I thought the software was licensed for installation on one machine only. The last time I upgraded my PC I didn't even bother about transferring software, so it hasn't been an issue until now. I have the OS disks, download authorization numbers etc for the software I would like to keep using.
So, from what you are saying, so long as I'm not using two instances of the software at the same time, I should be able to transfer it to a new machine (perhaps with some help from customer support). My question now is: do I upgrade (intel i7, extra RAM, new motherboard, external HD) or go for a new PC? I'd be grateful for any thoughts.
J
MC4/5/6, Windows 7 Pro x64 (+SP1), Intel Xeon E3 Quadcore 3.3 GHz CPU, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, 1 x 500 GB SATA (System), 1 x 1TB SATA (Samples), 1 x 1TB SATA (Audio), E-MU 0404 USB2.0 interface, Miditech keyboard
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timidi
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Re:Upgrade Questions
2010/10/14 20:41:27
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you mention the external drive a lot. why external? external may be fine for a backup solution but you should have 3 internal drives when doing audio production. As far as what you should do, there are a lot of variables. Mostly money.
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jayrmac
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Re:Upgrade Questions
2010/10/14 21:07:43
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Thanks Tim. I was thinking of an external HD as a cheap upgrade option. If I decided to buy a new PC I would follow your advice about multiple internal drives. The two main considerations concerning upgrade vs new PC seem to be: cost and hassle. Upgrading might be cheaper but more of a hassle.
Many thanks for your input.
J
MC4/5/6, Windows 7 Pro x64 (+SP1), Intel Xeon E3 Quadcore 3.3 GHz CPU, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, 1 x 500 GB SATA (System), 1 x 1TB SATA (Samples), 1 x 1TB SATA (Audio), E-MU 0404 USB2.0 interface, Miditech keyboard
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slartabartfast
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Re:Upgrade Questions
2010/10/14 21:52:46
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I've heard that updating components is not a good idea - basically, that my current set-up has matching components, and that updating any one of them requires updating the others too. True? Some components are not usually a problem. A case, or hard drives for example will not be much different (except for IDE/SATA but most new MB will have both). Power supplies have tended to follow the CPU and video card, so that may need to change. Usually, it is not worth the trouble to swap a CPU and keep the motherboard. By the time the swap makes sense, the new features on a new motherboard with a socket for the latest CPU is worth the cost. Unfortunately, by the time you need a new motherboard, you will probably need to use a new kind of memory as well. Generally licensing for software says that you can only use it on one machine at the same time, but permits you to move it to a new machine, so long as you completely remove it from the old one. The lazy way for software companies to be sure you do not have software installed on your buddy's machine is to limit the number of installs you can activate. After you use up the few they allow, you are out of luck unless you can tell a convincing story to their support people. My dog actually did destroy a computer, but they have probably heard that one already. Microsoft uses a hash value that is supposed to identify the computer Windows is authorized on, and if you install it on another machine it will not be activated until the new machine identity is substituted for the old in their database. Then, the old installation will be read as an unauthorized version, blocked from updates etc. Or you can do like Cakewalk, and trust the registered owner not to screw you.
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jayrmac
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Re:Upgrade Questions
2010/10/14 23:07:17
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Many thanks Slart. Things are much clearer now. I'm inclining towards a new PC, though I'll do more research before making a decision, particularly about the relative cost of new vs upgrade. The good thing is, since I've got all the disks and authorizations for the software I've bought, I should be able to install it on a new machine, which is quite a relief.
As an aside, one thing I've never felt the need to upgrade is MC 4. The limited number of audio (32) and MIDI (128) tracks has never been a problem, and I don't really need the synths, plug-ins etc. MC 4 has served me really well.
Thanks again for your advice.
J
MC4/5/6, Windows 7 Pro x64 (+SP1), Intel Xeon E3 Quadcore 3.3 GHz CPU, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, 1 x 500 GB SATA (System), 1 x 1TB SATA (Samples), 1 x 1TB SATA (Audio), E-MU 0404 USB2.0 interface, Miditech keyboard
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jm24
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Re:Upgrade Questions
2010/10/17 13:06:19
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> The latter is quite expensive, but allows two installs.
This usually means simultanious installations. Not replacements.
A 2nd internal drive will improve speed, a bit. Depending upon projects,...
More ram may, depending upon projects,...
New CPU: Research: What faster CPUs can the board accept? What are the prices?
Windows 7 has better multicore management. And other stuff. In-place upgrades do work if properly prepared for.
An external disk for backups and imaging is a must.
1st: Get an external disk, 1Terabyte for about $120 buc, backup the data. Get a full image of the disk before doing anything else.
Unless you have experience changing CPUs get someone who has.
You may be able to pay a bit more for a chip from a local vendor and have them insert it for free. But do the research about chips first.
What is the model of the computer/motherboard?
J
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jayrmac
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Re:Upgrade Questions
2010/10/21 02:10:59
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Many thanks for that advice JM.
Yes, Symphobia allowing two simultaneous installs rather than just one replacement makes a lot of sense.
And thanks for the tip about Windows 7 having better multicore management than Vista - not a surprise, but good to know.
If I decide to get an upgrade I'll definately do what you suggest and backup everything on an external HD first! The only time I've taken the back of my PC was to replace the fan, so I'm no expert on replacing CPUs. I can take it back to the store where I bought it since they do upgrades. But I did want some advice from the people here first about what I need to ask for. The store where I bought it doesn't specialise in PCs for audio work.
These are the desktop specs:
Intel Core2 Duo (E6550)
Gigabyte P31-DS3L Motherboard
320G SATAII HDD
2G DDR2 Ram
8500GT, 512M Graphic
20X DVD-RW
19" Viewsonic LCD
Vista Home Premium (32 bit)
It has served me well up to now. But since I've got decent software like Kontakt and Symphobia things have started to slow down a bit, including MC4 which can crash under strain.
Many thanks again for your advice JM.
J
MC4/5/6, Windows 7 Pro x64 (+SP1), Intel Xeon E3 Quadcore 3.3 GHz CPU, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, 1 x 500 GB SATA (System), 1 x 1TB SATA (Samples), 1 x 1TB SATA (Audio), E-MU 0404 USB2.0 interface, Miditech keyboard
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jm24
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Re:Upgrade Questions
2010/10/21 10:41:41
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☄ Helpful
[link=http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=GA-EP31-DS3L+&aq=f&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=GA-EP31-DS3L+&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=956ab502b015b9a1]http://www.google.com/#sc...mp;fp=956ab502b015b9a1[/link] Version number? Prolly have to look at the board. Get CPUID: http://www.cpuid.com/downloads/cpu-z/1.55-setup-en.exe Install, mainboard tab check version. Info about board: Version 1 http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2779#ov Version 2 http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2893#ov Version 2.1 http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2964#ov Click the CPU support button on the right. Per the chart even Version 1 can handle upto a Core™ 2 Extreme QX9770. So choose a chip in your price range. These reviews have a bunch of info, good and bad, about the board: http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1211 http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/gigabyte_gap31ds3l/ """This board delivered the goods when it came time to ramp up the speeds on the memory and processor. I achieved an overclock of 465x9, or 3720MHz, on my E6750. Figuring I have a Q6600 as well, I put it in and booted to prime stability at 427X8, or 3416MHz. Something the other boards in this review could not do. This result was gained within 15 minutes of booting the board, pretty amazing stuff for such an inexpensive motherboard, if you ask me. At this speed, the board was not only benchmark stable, but also Prime 95 stable. That may not mean a whole lot outside the enthusiast community, but the stress imposed on system components makes this test one of the more demanding utilities to run. If it's Prime stable, it's stable enough to run 24/7.""" '''If you are looking for a motherboard that is inexpensive yet has excellent overclocking potential, you may just want to check out the Gigabyte GA-P31-DS3L. It has the neccesary tools to function as both the little desktop that could, as well as performing like a thoroughbred purpose-built overclocking board if it needs to.''' The board is worth the effort to play with for a while. My approach: 1 Install w7: get a new drive for this. Keep the current drive connected, DO NOT UPGRADE, install clean to the new drive. This will mean a dual boot system. You will need to need to export presets,... And you will have to install all other software, and activate/register. But the new system will be clean and fresh. And, you could partition the new drive and install w7 32 on one partition, and w7 64 on the other. 2 Install more ram: or replace: what is the current speed of the chips. CPUID memory tab And note: as with many DDR2 boards, using all 4 slots reduces memory speed. So, best to use 2 2gig chips. I suggest you choose chips from the list of recommended manufacturers when using the fastest speeds. Put the chips each in a main slot (and for me (asus board)I had to set as unganged to get OC stability) 3 learn a bit about Overclocking. This is a gigabyte board. Usually lots of options, and resources. And so on. JM
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jayrmac
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Re:Upgrade Questions
2010/10/26 23:22:56
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Many thanks for that JM. That's very valuable information. I've just spent an hour following-up the links ... brilliant.
The motherboard is better than I thought, which makes upgrading components a better option - and cheaper. It is version 1 (1101R), but as you point out, it still supports an impressive range of CPUs - more than I need at this stage. This becomes a decision about price.
Your approach sounds right for me. Install Windows 7 on a new drive. Would an internal HD be better than a USB 2.0 external drive (7200 RPM)? Timidi (above) suggests 3 internal drives for audio work. What are the advantages of internal vs external? Is there any difference between an additional large (internal or external) HD partitioned into 2, compared with 2 smaller additional internal drives?
When you say I'll need to export presets, I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean the libraries that come with Kontakt, Symphobia etc?
Installing two 2gig chips instead of taking up all 4 slots (and reducing memory speed), partitioning the new drive to accommodate Windows 32 and 64 ... great tips.
Many thanks again JM. I wouldn't have come across this information by searching. You've saved me a lot of time, and probably saved me from making wrong choices.
Cheers,
J
MC4/5/6, Windows 7 Pro x64 (+SP1), Intel Xeon E3 Quadcore 3.3 GHz CPU, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, 1 x 500 GB SATA (System), 1 x 1TB SATA (Samples), 1 x 1TB SATA (Audio), E-MU 0404 USB2.0 interface, Miditech keyboard
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jm24
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Re:Upgrade Questions
2010/10/27 00:21:02
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Internal is best for OS disk.
I have 3 drives:
1: 500 gig
3 partitions:
w7 32: 90 gig programs, plugins, document files,...
w7 64: 90 gig programs, plugins, document files,...
Stuff: the rest of the space: used for CD project files, and storage
2: 180 gig: Samples, and tutorials, and CD/DVDs: I copy the Sonar disks,..
3: 500 gig
Project and audio Files: Projects, templates, Cal files,....
External 1 Terabyte, USB: backups, images of the OS drives, misc...
Leave the old drive as is until you have everything running properly. Point the new sonar install to the old disk for projects/audio files. After all is well, we can describe how to back all the files, and format the drive for use for audio: 64K clusters is the best cluster size, fewer disk reads/writes,... etc.,
=====================
Start Sonar, Use the plugin manager to export presets. Then import them in the new Sonar installation.
====================
Be very careful when changing the chip.
And so on.
Talk to me later
JM
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IronSound
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Re:Upgrade Questions
2010/10/28 17:54:18
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Hello... I would go with a Quad Intel CPU upgrade first... Q6000, Q8000, Q9000 series... also you should run/choose a CPU with 1333fsb speed with that motherboard... get one as close to 3ghz speed as per your wallet will allow... I use a Q9550 2.83Ghz in my Gigabyte Motherboard, and increase the FSB in the bios for 3Ghz CPU speed... Watch Ebay for pricing on used ones... Very easy to change out 1) remove fan heat sink 2) unlock CPU holder 3) remove CPU 4) drop in new CPU (no pins) 5) Lock CPU holder 6) spread thin layer of thermal grease (there might be enough still on old CPU/heat sink) 7) install heat sink fan 8) boot computer... no software needed... 9) sell old CPU on Ebay... Down load the user manual PDF file for your motherboard... it shows detailed pictures of what i just described for CPU install... I would then buy 2 2gig sticks of DDR2 800 ram... 4gig total ram... is a very cheap and great performance booster for Windows... 32 bit version will use 3.5gig of it... Again check Ebay for great prices... and if/when you get windows 7 64 bit pro... use all 4 of your sticks and you will have total of 6 gigs of memory available... SWEET!!!! As for which CPU you choose.. here is a performance graph to guide you... This website shows a performance graph of old and current CPU's... Looks like you could get about a 2X's increase of CPU performance with a Q6600 and about a 4X's increase with a Q9550... http://www.cpubenchmark.net/common_cpus.html 3 of the 10 top performers are socket 775 processors... only 1 out of 10 is an i5... I'm running my Q9550 at 3.0 GHZ 24/7 on my Gigabyte P35 board and getting a Windows 7 Experence CPU Index of 7.3 out of 7.9... and a memory index of 7.3 out of 7.9... Gigabyte Socket 775 Motherboards are very great performers... and will use all four memory slots and a wide variety of CPU's... this upgrade, CPU/Ram, $100-$300, and will be windows 7 64 bit compatible...
post edited by IronSound - 2010/10/28 18:55:17
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jayrmac
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Re:Upgrade Questions
2010/10/30 22:20:27
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Many thanks again JM. That's quite an impressive set up - it's good to see how you've got it organised. OK, internal drives are better for programs, plugins etc - external for storage. I know what you mean by presets now ... will do. Thanks again for your help ... much appreciated.
J
MC4/5/6, Windows 7 Pro x64 (+SP1), Intel Xeon E3 Quadcore 3.3 GHz CPU, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, 1 x 500 GB SATA (System), 1 x 1TB SATA (Samples), 1 x 1TB SATA (Audio), E-MU 0404 USB2.0 interface, Miditech keyboard
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jayrmac
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Re:Upgrade Questions
2010/10/30 22:24:34
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Many thanks for your input IronSound. I have the User Manual for the motherboard. I don't think I'll risk changing the CPU myself. I'll take it back to the store and get them to do it. It was information I was after, and the feedback here has been very helpful.
It's good to know the MB is OK, this confirms previous posts. It gives me quite a few options for choice of CPU, depending on price. OK, a CPU with 1333fsb speed ... good to know.
An extra 4 gig of RAM does sound good. I'm using the ReadyBoost option at the moment (via a 1gig USB flash drive), but I do need more ... 6 in total would indeed be very sweet.
Regarding the link, the graph is very interesting, particularly the lack of congruence between performance and price. I'll definately check all my options against this.
An upgrade won't break the bank - in fact it's cheaper than I was anticipating ... and, as you point out, even if I put off changing to Windows 7 for a while, it will be 64 bit compatible.
Many thanks again for your help ... very useful information.
Cheers,
J
MC4/5/6, Windows 7 Pro x64 (+SP1), Intel Xeon E3 Quadcore 3.3 GHz CPU, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, 1 x 500 GB SATA (System), 1 x 1TB SATA (Samples), 1 x 1TB SATA (Audio), E-MU 0404 USB2.0 interface, Miditech keyboard
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