stamina666
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11
- Joined: 2010/03/30 04:10:49
- Status: offline
Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/w?
I have not purchased computer or audio hardware in 7 years. I'm a noob at this and I don't know what asio, adat and a flurry of other audio hardware terms mean. The only hardware I've ever owned was a Delta 1010LT and an m-audio mobilepre USB. I looked at upgrading to E-MU 1616m but it looks like if I want to purchase something that is professional with good tech support, and support for x64, I need to increase my budget and look at: (There are 'top brands'?) RME, Lynx, Edirol? (These are mid level or poor brands?) M-audio, Presonus, Creative Labs, E-mu? I am upgrading to a new Windows 7 x64 computer (I need it for video production). I am in search of new hardware that will work well with x64. I'm a total newbie with recording hardware. Here's what I plan on using in my setup, maybe somebody can give me their opinions on what kind of hardware will help me incorporate everything together: Instruments: Yamaha DGX-505 midi / electronic keyboard Yamaha DTXpress IV midi / e-drum kit Gretsch G5120 f-hole electric Some microphones (have no idea what they are, they are for vocals) (Will be buying an Acoustic guitar) (Will be buying an Electric bass guitar) (Maybe will consider purchasing real drum kit and cheap recording setup for real kit) I love to play and practice various instruments 2-3 hours every day when I get home from work. Software I've used, want to use, own, or want to own: Sonar SoundForge (this is defunct now?) GigaStudio (this is defunct now?) EZDrummer/Superior Drummer or similar (basically gigastudio for drums) Recording hardware: EL-crapp built-in sound card (doesn't work with most popular software, is not asio or whatever it's called) Only things I own are a cheap amp, and a presonus firebox? (their cheaperish firewire recording interface) I'm not too worried about salvaging these items if they don't work well with my new recording setup I don't want to own a giant rack of stuff just yet, just looking for some equipment I can incorporate with my home PC that will let me hook up all the basic instruments for recording. I don't want USB (I've used a few usb boxes and latency is crap on all of them). I would consider firewire but my gut says to go with PCI/PCIe with some sort of external interface, this really solves all the problems with USB and firewire for a few extra bucks? Plus I need a good sound card anyway, in order for Sonar to work with all the plugins I want to run. Compatibility with all the major software is a must. I guess my budget needs to be somewhere in the $1k-$5k? This means $1k-$5k total, not $1k-$5k for a PCIe card, but then another $1k here and $1k there for addons. I'm talking package deal. If I want to buy something that I'm going to be happy with over the years? I'm not talented so I'm not looking for gold plated system, but I'm not just screwing around either so I'd rather avoid the low and low-to-mid level junk, if I can't do that with this budget just let me know that I'm being unrealistic and I can re-evaluate my situation here :-)
post edited by stamina666 - 2010/03/30 04:47:13
|
jeffb9363
Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
- Total Posts : 642
- Joined: 2003/11/08 04:47:54
- Location: Devon, England
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/03/30 08:20:37
(permalink)
Add Echo to your list of good interfaces. Excellent driver support. They're even offering Windows 7 support for interfaces that have been out of production for years!
Studio: X1P on Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz P45 8Gb DDR3. W7 x64. MOTU 1296, 2408 Mk3. TC-Helicon Voiceworks. BCF2000. Stage: Cantabile Performer 2 on E8600 @ 4Ghz P45 8Gb DDR2. W7 x64. 2408 Mk3, TC-Helicon Harmony-M.
|
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 50621
- Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
- Location: Fort Worth, TX
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/03/30 09:54:18
(permalink)
GigaStudio (this is defunct now?) yes, tascam abandoned it and Garritan bought it from them, but they haven't done anything with it yet. I would advise going with Kontakt by NI instead. as far as soundcards go, check my website for some entry/mid level interfaces. it depends on your needs and what your budget is as to what soundcard I'd recommend and I'm not clear how much of your budget is priority for the soundcard and how much is priority for the other stuff.
|
Tap
Max Output Level: -30 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4536
- Joined: 2008/10/09 11:55:30
- Location: Newburyport, MA
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/03/30 11:30:19
(permalink)
Just as a note, When it comes to recording live drums, your studio will take a drastic change. If you really have your heart set on recording drums, it's a good idea to prepare for it now.
MC4 - M-Audio FW410 / Behringer UCA202 - Fender Strat / Jazzmaster / DuoSonic / Washburn / Peavy Foundation M-Audio Radium 49 Roland Juno 106 / JazzChorus / Seymore Duncan Convertible - HP A1230N ( AMD Athalon 3800+ 2G Ram + 200G HD ) http://soundclick.com/cut2thechaise
|
jimmyrage
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 238
- Joined: 2010/02/05 18:12:35
- Location: Norfolk Va.
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/03/30 12:44:47
(permalink)
Motu makes several very nice interfaces in your price range. Also like Tap mentioned, if you plan to record live drums you'll want something with at least 8 seperate pre's.
|
craigfowler
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
- Total Posts : 356
- Joined: 2009/05/24 15:51:50
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/03/30 14:31:49
(permalink)
Not to be too defensive about gear I own, but I wouldn't consider E-mu interfaces poor. I have the 1820m, and it sounds very good and is quite well equipped (though I may never fully understand how the patchmix interface works!). Good luck on your quest - I hope you have fun! I felt overwhelmed quite fast when I dove back in, and am slowly readjusting!
|
stamina666
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11
- Joined: 2010/03/30 04:10:49
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/04/01 01:59:48
(permalink)
Adding Echo and Motu to the list of consideration. I'm ruling out the E-MU because of the stuff in this post below. Which is very sad because as I understand it the hardware itself is very good quality: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=1914930&mpage=1#1971108 Apparently E-MU support specifically states that they aren't going to bother with windows 7 support (let alone windows 7 x64 support). Forget that - I want to buy an interface from a company that knows and understands windows and buys the microsoft development kits and does the work to make it work. If a company's software developers can't even figure out windows 7 (I'm not saying it's easy by any means) then that's a red flag to find somebody else, in my opinion. In this day and age, I have zero tolerance for companies who refuse to support new windows o/s. It says a lot about that company. Ok, I'll read through those other websites. Honestly I'm confused as heck, with the EMU-1616M I was getting everything I needed. With the higher end companies, especially like RME, they don't specifically sell a package deal. They sell a bunch of cards and I can't tell what the heck I am buying. I guess I get confused when I see a company selling a PCI card for $2,000 with no jacks or plugs on the back? I mean, I need like a box with a bunch of places to plug in guitars and mics, no? Can anybody recommend a similar package setup to the 1616M or 1820M? The EMU stuff sounded great for a noobie like me but no windows 7 support is a show-stopper - I've been down the 'we don't support you, sorry' road when I owned my crapp M-Audio equipment (they are kings of 'oh, sorry, maybe in the next release', at least 5 years ago when I owned their stuff)
post edited by stamina666 - 2010/04/01 02:02:12
|
stamina666
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11
- Joined: 2010/03/30 04:10:49
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/04/01 02:10:44
(permalink)
Ok I'm going to take a specific example here, so I go to hit up the echoaudio.com website. They are advertising their Audiofirepre8 (ok I think it's an audio interface with 8 pre-amplified inputs). So I click on the links and I see that firewire is a requirement. Firewire is o.k. but I really prefer a PCI card for the money. So I click up on Products and select PCI from the dropdown. I see Layla. Layle has 6 balanced 1/4" analog inputs. What is a balanced input? She has two auto-sensing universal inputs with phantom power, so I guess that would take my condenser mic (which I know wants phantom power) and my electric guitar, but then I can't plug in a second guitar or a second mic? I.e., would I be able to use this gear to record live drums, if I buy a live drum set and some mics later down the road? Why does everything have S/PDIF I/O? What is ADAT? What is Low Latency ASIO 2.0 (is there high latency ASIO? IS there no latency ASIO?) What is GSIF 2.0? Is there a website that actually ya know.. records instruments and analyzes the recording to tell you who is running the best a/d converter hardware in their boxes? I guess I'm a little wary in reading product descriptions, sometimes companies try to hide the weaknesses in their products, and I'm such a noob to all the terms, I don't know where to begin. Even if I figure out what all the terms above mean (Trust me I will spend some time googling again, I'm sure you guys get this question enough here), I'm going to be lost on the a/d hardware. I guess a lot of that has to do with personal taste ("I think this interface is too bright" "I think this interface is nice and warm" "I think this interface records the bass lows well") but I live in a small town so, I guess, does a guy just have to blow a couple thousand and if he doesn't like it, tuff luck?? lol :-)
|
stamina666
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11
- Joined: 2010/03/30 04:10:49
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/04/01 02:12:56
(permalink)
Ok so I think I realize that Layla and Gina are not what I want, because don't I also need a sound card? Or am I wrong here. I.e. when I try to use my old crappy motherboard's built-in sound card, I can't run ezdrummer and I can't use half the stuff in Cakewalk because it says I have a crappy sound card and that I need to buy one with some sort of certification. So if I buy Gina or Layla are they just the input/output interface that also include a PCI card, but then I need to buy a second PCI card that is just a sound card?
|
stamina666
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11
- Joined: 2010/03/30 04:10:49
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/04/01 02:23:14
(permalink)
Ok so I check out motu.com, and I click on the PCI audio section. I am looking at some fancy looking hardware. I look at the 24I/O. It says I should buy the PCI-424 card and then buy this interface. But this interface only has a bunch of 1/4" jacks on it, so it looks like this one wouldn't be able to record my mic. So this one is purely i/o, and I would need to buy a separate external pre-amp, right? I think the light bulb is coming on here. So some of these companies will sell you an i/o with pre-amp built in, while other companies will have you piece it together, and it's all about personal preference? Is there advantage or disadvantage to buying a pre-amp/i/o/'all in one' gizmo, versus buying all the parts and pieces separately? How do I know if the 24 i/o 1/4" jacks on this Motu thingie are compatible with the other devices that I buy? Will things get 'noisy' as I start to plug in more and more cables or are these boxes designed to cut down on the noise somehow?
|
stamina666
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11
- Joined: 2010/03/30 04:10:49
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/04/01 02:25:34
(permalink)
Ok the Motu HD192 has 'xlr' plugs on the back (is that right, these are the plugs with like 3 prongs or 3 holes). Ok so why would a guy chose XLR over 1/4" RCA? Also, all the motu stuff looks like it has a firewire port on the back, but these were supposed to be PCI interfaces, so what gives?
|
stamina666
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11
- Joined: 2010/03/30 04:10:49
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/04/01 02:30:27
(permalink)
Ok so I log into rme-audio.de and I don't know if this stuff is in my budget but wow it looks fancy. So it looks like if I bought RME, I would buy something like their HDSP PCI Card, and then buy a Multiface II, but it doesn't list phantom power anywhere, does this mean it still doesn't have a mic input? So I still need to buy a separate pre-amp? Also, ok for example the HDSP MADI is listed as a 128 channel 96 khZ DSP PCI card. So the 96 khz-- I've seen 192 khz - call me stupid but I thought humans can't hear above 20 khz (does this have more to do with sampling rate/resolution and not so much to do with the audible range?) Also 128 channels - the thing doesn't have 128 plugs on it, so what's a channel in terms of DSP and audio hardware?? Does this have to do with Cakewalk or something?
|
stamina666
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11
- Joined: 2010/03/30 04:10:49
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/04/01 02:32:55
(permalink)
Ok so the RME PCI card has firewire on it too. So really there is no such thing as much a PCIE gizmo that doesn't use frickin' firewire? What's the point of buying a PCIe card if it is just using firewire to connect to an external box? Why not just buy a pure firewire box and use the firewire port on your PC?
|
stamina666
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11
- Joined: 2010/03/30 04:10:49
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/04/01 02:37:06
(permalink)
Ok last question, if cakewalk bans me I don't blame them, I asked way too many questions in too many posts. Ok so I check out the Lynx lineup of cards. They all have like two 27-pin DB connectors on the back. How the heck does a guy plug in his pre-amp to these cards? This one is 192khZ card, I guess that's better than 96 khz cuz it's bigger. (I don't mean to be obnoxious but I can't find any how-to or help manuals on this stuff, iether you know it or you don't I guess)
|
stamina666
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11
- Joined: 2010/03/30 04:10:49
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/04/01 02:39:29
(permalink)
I guess a lot of these setups don't make any sense to me, I thought the point of recording was to have a different channel in Cakewalk for every different mic. But as far as I can tell, most of these PCI cards just have a couple of inputs and you end up pre-mixing everything before it even hits Cakewalk. Doesn't that make computer editing difficult to impossible? Isn't it best to get as many channels of unmixed stuff recorded onto your computer's hard drive first?
|
Wickens
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 183
- Joined: 2009/01/29 23:11:55
- Location: Toronto
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/04/01 08:54:50
(permalink)
jeffb9363 Add Echo to your list of good interfaces. Excellent driver support. They're even offering Windows 7 support for interfaces that have been out of production for years! I have to disagree. My L3G has not worked with Windows7 since I bought it, after being told by an Echo support rep that they would be releasing the drivers with full compatibility before Windows7 came out. They came out 2 months after W7 and they dont work (at least for me anyway).
|
george4th
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 105
- Joined: 2005/05/06 00:41:05
- Location: Lafayette, LA
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/04/01 10:22:46
(permalink)
I have a Echo Layla 24 and was thinking of converting to W7 64 tonight, ill check on the driver problem, did it work in vista64? maybe ill stick with vista for now, BTW M Audio has released beta drivers for 64 bit systems for most of the legacy products jus a few days ago, will be trying that this weekend also.
X1b PE, Sonar 8.5.3 PE 64bit...Amd Phenom II quad core processor 12gb ram,1tb hd & 500g hd, W7 64bit, Lynx AES16, (2) Apogee Rosetta 800's,Focal Twin6be's,M-Audio Midisport 4x4(64 bit driver), Mackie Control Universal Pro ++,Yamaha 01v96, All Rode mic's manufactered to date, alot of Shure mics,Yamaha XS8, Alesis QS8.1, Kurzweil k2000rs, Yamaha Motif es76, Kurzweil pc88, Roland XV-3080, Way too many guitars, a multitude of outboard processors,Yamaha C1 piano, Bach Strad, Yamaha Xeno, Yamaha 731 Flugel
|
mgh
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8594
- Joined: 2007/05/10 05:15:56
- Location: betwixt and between
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/04/01 11:24:36
(permalink)
i'd suggest something like the MOTU 2408 mkiii, which uses a PCI card and then an attached breakout box. it has 8 ins/outs on TRS jacks, and you could use the ADAT connectivity to add preamps, for example the MOTU 8Pre, or more cheaply the Behringer ADA8000. this will give you all the audio in/outs you will ever need, useful if wanting to record drums. don't give up on firewire though; the best FW interfaces plus a TI firewire PCI-e card will give almost as good latency as a PCI based card, and more cheaply. Look at RME, MOTU, Focusrite, and apparently the new Steinberg interfaces are pretty good...
|
Cookie Jarvis
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 289
- Joined: 2009/03/11 22:27:32
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/04/03 10:47:59
(permalink)
My Layla 3G works great in Win 7 x64 Ultimate! Have you installed newer drivers, my card has been working since Day 1 and that was end of Summer- beginning of Fall. Before that I was running Vista Ultimate 32-bit. stamina666- The Layla 3G IS a PCI soundcard, but instead of having to screw around with the back of your machine every time you want to change your cables it has a breakout box that has a 15' cable to allow you to put it on your desk or table and access all the inputs and outputs where it's more convenient. You can also add as many more Laylas as you have PCI slots. You just need to sync them together by making one card the master and the rest slaves! Stick with PCI or PCI-X if you want reliability and speed. Plugging a firewire card into a PCI slot to plug your interface into is sort of like drinking beer through cheesecloth :) Bill
|
stamina666
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11
- Joined: 2010/03/30 04:10:49
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/04/04 13:24:17
(permalink)
mgh i'd suggest something like the MOTU 2408 mkiii, which uses a PCI card and then an attached breakout box. it has 8 ins/outs on TRS jacks, and you could use the ADAT connectivity to add preamps, for example the MOTU 8Pre, or more cheaply the Behringer ADA8000. this will give you all the audio in/outs you will ever need, useful if wanting to record drums. don't give up on firewire though; the best FW interfaces plus a TI firewire PCI-e card will give almost as good latency as a PCI based card, and more cheaply. Look at RME, MOTU, Focusrite, and apparently the new Steinberg interfaces are pretty good... But if I've got this right, I would spend around $950 for the MOTU 2408 MKIII bundled with the PCI card, but then I would still need to spend another $500 on multichannel preamp plus cabling? Does the MOTU's PCI card also act as a sound card - for instance is it "ASIO" or does it have whatever certification is needed to work well with superior drummer and cakewalk products?
|
mgh
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8594
- Joined: 2007/05/10 05:15:56
- Location: betwixt and between
- Status: offline
Re:Upgrading to Windows 7 x64 - looks like I need to invest in higher quality recording h/
2010/04/04 16:37:18
(permalink)
lol all 'pro' soundcards do ASIO, yes they all work with CW and all VSTis..............it depends what you want. getting a soundcard with ADAT connectivity means in the future, if you need to mike a drumkit, you can quickly and more cheaply add something like the ADA8000, as kits tend to need 4 mikes plus...if you don't need all this stuff yet, then you don't need to spend as much money!
|