Using Korg MicroKey with MC5

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bellatori
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2011/03/06 04:39:38 (permalink)

Using Korg MicroKey with MC5

I am running a quad core AMD  3000 with W7 x64 which is pretty fast and yet I find that, even running no other programs, the latency when I use the Korg Micro Key as midi input to MC5 (its a small USB keyboard) , is incredible. It is so large that basically this is not a useful input route. What am I doing wrong? Anyone else have this problem?
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    Beagle
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    Re:Using Korg MicroKey with MC5 2011/03/06 04:48:16 (permalink)
    90% of latency is due to the soundcard and its drivers - the other 10% is the CPU and RAM and harddrives. (it has nothing to do with the keyboard or MIDI to computer interface)

    my guess is that you're using your onboard soundcard - it's horrible for trying to record with real time FX or softsynths because it is not designed for it.

    My best suggestion is to get a recording soundcard.  they start at around $100, check my website for recommendations.

    in the meantime, IF you're using your onboard soundcard, then try changing to WASAPI driver mode if it's available
    OPTIONS>AUDIO>DRIVER MODE = WASAPI

    if it's not available, then the next alternate suggestion is to download and install ASIO4ALL (google it) and then change to ASIO driver mdoe

    PLEASE, however, if you do install ASIO4ALL and then you go order a recording soundcard, make sure you UNINSTALL ASIO4ALL before you install your new soundcard.  it causes conflicts.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #2
    bellatori
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    Re:Using Korg MicroKey with MC5 2011/03/06 08:25:17 (permalink)
    Thanks for the quick reply. Actually I do not have onboard sound on this computer. My sound is via E-MU 0202 USB external sound box. When I used direct midi input into the EMU through the midi ports,  there was no latency at all. I am using the Korg USB driver for the midi keyboard.

     I am using the micro USB keyboard because I am trying to sell my house and the big keyboard has gone to storage as we declutter!!! Hence I bought the Korg microKey to let me continue trying to make music...

    I really do appreciate the help.  
    #3
    57Gregy
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    Re:Using Korg MicroKey with MC5 2011/03/06 10:11:06 (permalink)
    Select the USB device for MIDI input under Options>MIDI Devices.
    Make sure the E-Mu is selected as both playback and record devices under Options>Audio (assuming you're still using the E-Mu without the big keyboard).
    Are you using the E-Mu ASIO audio driver?

    Greg 
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    #4
    bellatori
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    Re:Using Korg MicroKey with MC5 2011/03/06 11:15:33 (permalink)
    OK so now we have a problem. With nothing (i.e. no big midi Kbd directly plugged into it)  on the E-MU midi ports then the E-MU does not show up on MC5. If I plug the Korg in then I get Korg as input and output. No, I am not using E-MU ASIO drivers as far as I am aware. I am using the drivers provided by Creative for the E-MU.
    ASIO drivers? Doesn't mean anything to me... What? Where? COuld you explain please?
    Thanks
    #5
    Beagle
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    Re:Using Korg MicroKey with MC5 2011/03/06 12:03:20 (permalink)
    You're looking at 2 different things, I believe.  when you say with nothing plugged into the EMU MIDI ports that the EMU doesn't show up in MC5 - where are you looking for it?  are you talking about for the MIDI inputs or for audio inputs and outputs?

    it sounds like you're confused about the way your system should work.  let's take it one step at a time.

    first, let's make sure your Microkey is set up correctly.  look again at the OPTIONS>MIDI DEVICES.  since you're not using the EMU for MIDI I/O, then just uncheck those - you don't need them and they will just confuse you when you're using MC5 for MIDI.  but you DO need the MICRO KORG USB (or it will say something similar to that).  so check THOSE for INPUT and OUTPUT but NOTHING ELSE.

    now you need to make sure your EMU is set up correctly so that you have minimal latency.  the EMU will have good ASIO drivers, so let's use thse since they will likely be the lowest latency for you.  go to OPTIONS>AUDIO and change the DRIVER MODE to ASIO.  click APPLY.

    now look at the RECORDING and PLAYBACK DEVICES and tell us EXACTLY what it says is selected. 

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #6
    bellatori
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    Re:Using Korg MicroKey with MC5 2011/03/06 12:21:50 (permalink)
    I begin to understand!! You are correct I was confused between audio and midi i/o. OK so now I have Korg as both midi i/i and I have found the audio and set the E-MU to ASIO (which stands for?). I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks once again.
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    Beagle
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    Re:Using Korg MicroKey with MC5 2011/03/06 12:42:38 (permalink)
    ASIO is just a protocol designed by Steinberg to bypass the windows mixing kernels which are used by WDM and MME.

    all soundcards can have 3 or 4 or more TYPES of drivers written for them.  when you choose MME, WDM or ASIO in MC5, all you're doing is setting a "switch" to tell MC5 which driver to use.  if you set MC5 to use ASIO then it will use the ASIO drivers that came with the EMU, if you set MC5 to WDM then it will use the WDM drivers that came with the EMU.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #8
    bellatori
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    Re:Using Korg MicroKey with MC5 2011/03/07 05:24:33 (permalink)
    Thanks for that last clarification. I think I understand that now.... HOWEVER.... I have now got midi set to Korg (in and out) and the audio to ASIO for in and out using the E-MU. On the plus side I can record from the midi and it appears to be better then before BUT I now have no sound output from the E-MU. It is working for other programs just no longer for MC5!? 

    I tried setting it back to the original (non-ASIO) setting but this caused MC5 to hang. In fact the only way I could get MC5 back up and running was to use task manager to close MC5 and then reboot the computer with the E-MU turned off. Leaving the E-MU on caused any attempt to play or use MC5 to make the program hang again. Now that I have restarted MC5 with the E-MU off, it has reverted to defaults (no audio) and I can  now restart the E-MU. Rebooting gets me back to the position at the start of the post. Midi may be OK but no audio.


    #9
    bellatori
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    Re:Using Korg MicroKey with MC5 2011/03/07 06:28:25 (permalink)
    Further to my last post, I have tried this with ASUS EEC PC notebook. Same thing. Latency may be improved but sound is gone. For this I downloaded ASIO4All driver for ther onboard realtek HD sound. BBC radio comes over fine but no sound from MC5. Midi shows Korg and Audio shows ASIO4All. The latter shows the realtek HD on its properties but... no sound. Don't know if the extra info helps. Thanks
    #10
    Beagle
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    Re:Using Korg MicroKey with MC5 2011/03/07 11:07:52 (permalink)
    your problem, I believe, is that you're wanting MIDI to output through the computer speakers but you haven't assigned a softsynth.  if you were using your soundcard as output previously and it worked then you have an embedded softsynth like the soundblasters or you were choosing MS GS Wavetable.  neither of which is the best options.

    you need to lear to use softsynths if you want your MIDI to trigger sounds that are not in your keyboard.  this will get you started:
    INSERT>SOFTSYNTH>TTS-1
    in the popup, click on FIRST SYTNH OUTPUT, UNCHECK MIDI SOURCE TRACK
    TTS-1 will load - you don't need to look at the GUI right now, just close it (it doesn't actually unload)
    go to your MIDI track and for the OUTPUT select TTS-1
    for the CHANNEL, select 1
    for the BANK, select the first one that comes up
    for the PATCH, select something - piano, whatever

    then play your keyboard.

    in the meantime, I suggest you work thru the tutorials included in the help files.  they have a lot of really good info in the help files and they help you thru using softsynths as well.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #11
    bellatori
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    Re:Using Korg MicroKey with MC5 2011/03/07 12:25:21 (permalink)
    Very quickly as I see you are online... I had wondered about this - - only becuase I had started to read some of the stuff on your web site...!! I'll let you know how I get on.

    Bellatori
    #12
    bellatori
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    Re:Using Korg MicroKey with MC5 2011/03/08 15:01:35 (permalink)
    You are the man... I'm not sure who will be happier, myself or my wife. I have added to our car load for ferry to spain my Korg, my EEC PC notebook and a pair of headphones. The time share has internet so I intend to look again at your web site, the tutorials and I have a very cheap book on an early edition of home creator to get me started!! Holiday here i come!!
    Truly my sincerest thanks...

    Bellatori
    #13
    Beagle
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    Re:Using Korg MicroKey with MC5 2011/03/08 15:31:53 (permalink)
    cool deal!  post some music for us when you get some recorded!

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
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