Using Multiple Audio Devices w/ ASIO4ALL in Sonar?

Hi,
I have noticed a peculiar behaviour in SONAR x3 producer that is making it impossible to use multiple audio devices with asio4all.
 
I have my primary sound device, a Behr UMC204HD and also a Boss GT100 USB device that I want to use for reamping over usb.   The goal is to use the UMC's outputs to my monitors while using the GT100 usb for reamping. 
 
Unfortunately, sonar won't display more than one asio4all driver set at a time.  For instance, with both devices attached to the computer, it will allow me to select IN: asio4all(Gt100).  The only output driver I can select is OUT: asio4all(Gt100).  The problem is that asio4all(unmc204hd) never shows up in the lists, UNLESS I disconnect the gt100, then asio4all(UMC204hd) will show up.
 
The whole point of using asio4all is to aggregate different audio devices, but Sonar seems to be putting a limitation on ASIO4ALL.  It only allows one asio4all device to show up in the list at a time.   I have verified that asio4all works independently with each device, which leads me to believe this is a sonar issue.  BOTH devices show up in the asio4all control panel.
 
Anyone have experience with this sort of thing? 
 

The ASIO specification only permits one I/O driver to be used by the host at a time. If there are two devices shown in SONAR using ASIO mode, SONAR follows the ASIO specification. The aggregation must happen inside ASIO4All so that SONAR only works with one instance of ASIO4All.

Wow, this works great!  I finally got this working the way I always wanted it.
 
The GT100 is physically cabled with my amp so its difficult/inconvenient to re patch it every time I want to use it for computer recording.  Now I can use the GT100 for direct recording/reamping over USB without having to touch the cables.  Very cool, and surprisingly respectable latency. 

It works great, but its not clear that Sonar is able to load both asio4all devices the first time it runs.  I think the trick is to set one device as input, save, restart sonar and then both devices will show up both as input and output on the second start.  Once the project has been saved, it seems to work properly with both devices without any configuration.
 
I am using a Behringer UMC204hd as primary soundcard.  When I want to reamp, I select an asio4all device (as above) and then I'm able to use the I/O on a GT100 guitar processor for reamping, and use the UMC204HDs output to my monitors.  Two devices at once.
 
The round trip latency when running both devices is 24ms which is not ideal, but if I use it this way just for reamping, it is a non issue.
 
I have found that if I want to use asio4all while tracking, a good workaround is to use analog inputs to my soundcard and "real time monitoring" to monitor the recorded signal.
 
The real benefit of this is that I don't think I need my Radial X-amp reamping box any more.  The signal out to the GT100 (via usb) is routed to my amplifier which I then record with mics routed back to my soundcard.  This avoids an extra stage of conversion and guarantees levels are the same.
 

I used to suggest ASIO4ALL to anyone with latency issues who couldn't afford an audio interface.
once I started seeing problems with it in Windows 8 and Windows 10 I stopped suggesting it to others.
IMO, ASIO4ALL is simply a band aid until one is able to treat the real problem, a soundcard.

Asio4all does cop a lot of flack, but it certainly has its place. In the early days of asio it was the only solution for many people. I have used it in the past on several onboard sound chips for simple editing between gigs when touring and it worked perfectly. That said, I can't say I have ever pushed it's limits. Nice to hear it is working for you as a multi interface solution!

200bpm

chuckebaby
I used to suggest ASIO4ALL to anyone with latency issues who couldn't afford an audio interface.
once I started seeing problems with it in Windows 8 and Windows 10 I stopped suggesting it to others.
IMO, ASIO4ALL is simply a band aid until one is able to treat the real problem, a soundcard.

I have a soundcard.  My new UMC204HD has incredible performance, almost as good as the RME I owned for several years.
 
The reason for me to use asio4all is so I can use two separate devices together.
 
I didnt even think to try WDM.  It will come down to which one provides better performance.  Its good to have options.  I can't see any reason to hate on asio4all.

hard to compare an 80.00 dollar interface to an 800.00 interface.
just because the UMC204HD has 24-Bit/192 kHz converters.
the RME Mic pres blows away the Behringer. I know Behringer takes a lot of flack for quality of build but for good reason.
Ive used several Behringer products and they seem to be a crap shot.
one works fine, the other one is broken 2 months later.
 

chuckebaby

200bpm

chuckebaby
I used to suggest ASIO4ALL to anyone with latency issues who couldn't afford an audio interface.
once I started seeing problems with it in Windows 8 and Windows 10 I stopped suggesting it to others.
IMO, ASIO4ALL is simply a band aid until one is able to treat the real problem, a soundcard.

I have a soundcard.  My new UMC204HD has incredible performance, almost as good as the RME I owned for several years.
 
The reason for me to use asio4all is so I can use two separate devices together.
 
I didnt even think to try WDM.  It will come down to which one provides better performance.  Its good to have options.  I can't see any reason to hate on asio4all.

hard to compare an 80.00 dollar interface to an 800.00 interface.
just because the UMC204HD has 24-Bit/192 kHz converters.
the RME Mic pres blows away the Behringer. I know Behringer takes a lot of flack for quality of build but for good reason.
Ive used several Behringer products and they seem to be a crap shot.
one works fine, the other one is broken 2 months later.
 

I was talking about the quality of drivers, the stability, and latency.  I got the RME UFX for lowest latency for tracking back when there weren't any other good USB solutions.  Surprisingly, the new Behringer unit is pretty great all around.  Plenty fast for tracking with heavy VSTs.  I haven't had a single dropout or stutter.  It also supports multi-client audio so it seamlessly integrates with desktop and daw applications.
 
The RME preamps are much better, but overall sound quality of conversion is not that far off.  The behringer lets you bypass the preamps however.
 
 

Good information.

I played around with it, and by selecting only an asio4all input device, when I attempted to close audio options, sonar gave an error saying I needed to select an output device.. .and lo and behold, both asio4all devices showed up in the lists.
 
Thats really works.Its a typical bug with sonarx3 and im using the focusrite scarletti 2i2 2nd gen.It has an asio driver which used to clash with asio4all which was being used for pianoteq.Now both work together.Thanks for the suggestion.
MAY YOUR KNOWLEDGE BENEFIT ALL.
SJA

ASIO4ALL goes back to a time when not all hardware provided ASIO drivers on Windows PCs. Like most things Windows, use the most recent version available for your Windows Version. ASIO4ALL doesn’t change often so it’s easy to have an older version without realising it. Current version 2.14 from May 2017.

Thus a clever developer called Michael Tippach created a driver that could use the elements of the (Windows drivers Model) WDM and fool the DAW into thinking that an ASIO driver was indeed available. He also added the ability to aggregate drivers from different manufacturers for different devices as improvements over the years since 2003.

When it all works it’s great but aggregating devices with different internal clocks with drivers not originally with that design in mind is not some small feat.

It’s not a short coming of Sonar but rather this complex interweaving of software to work outside of its original purpose that can cause difficulties. But as scook said several post above, the aggregation has to occur within ASIO4ALL not inside of sonar. Even the developer acknowledges that maybe only 5 out of 6 efforts to use ASIO4ALL work successfully.
I’d advise anyone using it to actually go to the ASIO4ALL website and read some of the FAQs there to isolate any problems they’re having.
Here’s the link
http://www.asio4all.org/faq.html