Using Sonar as Multitrack Backup for a Band

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Starise
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2017/11/16 18:56:41 (permalink)

Using Sonar as Multitrack Backup for a Band

I know, I'm probably going to be told I need to buy Ableton for this. I already have Sonar and a laptop though. I believe we can load two copies of Sonar with a few rules. I already know Sonar fairly well. I qualify for a small upgrade discount if I buy Ableton, but I think I would rather use Sonar. 
 
Has anyone here done such a thing. My plan is to use canned tracks with a click out to the main players panned. Send the house mix out in mono to the audience. Doesn't seem it should be difficult to do that in Sonar. The only caveat being I might need a controller that can trigger it just like Ableton controllers.
 
I need it to work flawless since I'm pitching this to my drummer first and he hasn't used a click yet. We're fairly tight without a click.
Suggestions/ideas are appreciated.

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    reginaldStjohn
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    Re: Using Sonar as Multitrack Backup for a Band 2017/11/16 20:20:20 (permalink)
    I personally don't have experience with this but maybe the Matrix thing inside Sonar would work for you. You could also just have a controller, midi foot controller, IPhone etc. send out the play message?

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    AT
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    Re: Using Sonar as Multitrack Backup for a Band 2017/11/17 00:55:46 (permalink)
    Playlist.  I've never done it but ain't that what its for.
     
    The Matrix could work, but there would be a lot of pre-production.  Looped stuff, triggered stuff.

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    kitekrazy1
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    Re: Using Sonar as Multitrack Backup for a Band 2017/11/17 01:04:23 (permalink)
    Starise
    I know, I'm probably going to be told I need to buy Ableton for this. I already have Sonar and a laptop though. I believe we can load two copies of Sonar with a few rules. I already know Sonar fairly well. I qualify for a small upgrade discount if I buy Ableton, but I think I would rather use Sonar. 
     
    Has anyone here done such a thing. My plan is to use canned tracks with a click out to the main players panned. Send the house mix out in mono to the audience. Doesn't seem it should be difficult to do that in Sonar. The only caveat being I might need a controller that can trigger it just like Ableton controllers.
     
    I need it to work flawless since I'm pitching this to my drummer first and he hasn't used a click yet. We're fairly tight without a click.
    Suggestions/ideas are appreciated.




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    gswitz
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    Re: Using Sonar as Multitrack Backup for a Band 2017/11/17 01:32:05 (permalink)
    People definitely use Sonar for this.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #5
    Starise
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    Re: Using Sonar as Multitrack Backup for a Band 2017/11/17 14:48:20 (permalink)
    I think I'm going to give it a shot. I'll get some wav track parts and build a few songs. I'll make sure the mix is right for the house, export those down to wavs and export them individually. When I build a set I can likely put each track in the matrix panned hard L/R with a click on one track. Then simply call up the wavs. I could make it more complicated if I separate individual song parts. This would allow me to do sections more than one time.
    When building sets I could then simply drag the songs into a project. 
     
    The guys using Ableton mostly keep control of their individual tracks since if a part is too loud or soft , they can pull it down or bring it up. I think I'll work up to that later. 
     
    I have been old school in my setup. I wanted to bring some fresh life into the music and this seems like a good way to do that.
     
    The next hurdle is to get the band mix right using IEMs. A large Aviom system is probably too expensive for me right now. Looking for affordable alternatives to that. I've never used stage IEM's.

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    #6
    Sidroe
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    Re: Using Sonar as Multitrack Backup for a Band 2017/11/17 16:03:26 (permalink)
    I had a trio for several years. Drums, bass, and myself on guitar and keys. We spent many weeks of preparation to get the shows together but once we were done we had full night shows for any occassions. Blues, jazz, country, classic rock, etc.
    Sonar was the complete brain behind these shows. I would do the keyboard parts and orchestrations, then we would spend rehersals getting the mixs tight. Sonar had a click track sent to the drummer for the songs we used Sonar on. The mixs were automated in Sonar as well. The bass player and I used amp simulation straight to the PA!! Sonar controlled the amp switching through out the performance. In-ear monitors and well placed floor monitors helped keep volume down.
    Sonar even was midied to the light show to control overheads and spots. All this run by computer.
    I came from old school, poor rock and country background. Never did I believe that things like this would be possible.
    Yes, it can be done but it takes a lot of hard work determination to do it right!!!!!!!
    AND DON'T FORGET TO WEAR LOTS OF PADDING WHEN YOU TELL YOUR DRUMMER HE HAS TO PLAY WITH A CLICK TRACK!!!!!!        LOL

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    Starise
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    Re: Using Sonar as Multitrack Backup for a Band 2017/11/17 16:36:09 (permalink)
    Sidroe, Thank you for that. This is what I needed to hear to give me that last push to do it. 
     
    LOL. My drummer is still young and malleable. 

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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Using Sonar as Multitrack Backup for a Band 2017/11/17 16:43:36 (permalink)
    I've been using a laptop for backing tracks since 2002. I use Win Amp and a foot control. Has always worked 100%. 
    I have also split the stereo and send the bass track to a bass amp, same idea your thinking. Works 100%. 
     
    Only thing missing is midi to control effects ( or lighting) 
    So I bought Home Studo and have been working for a year re doing all backing tracks so they are 100% midi. Most used real bass, it's taking a long time but when I'm done I will give Sonars Playlist a spin and see if I like it. My only holdback is I think it will be too slow between songs. 

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    Starise
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    Re: Using Sonar as Multitrack Backup for a Band 2017/11/18 00:08:32 (permalink)
    Johnny I appreciate you sharing this. A good way to kick around ideas from what others have done. Thanks.

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    fwrend
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    Re: Using Sonar as Multitrack Backup for a Band 2017/11/18 05:04:32 (permalink)
    I will be using this very process for two upcoming Christmas concerts performed by my church choir, the local junior college choir and community choir - one at the college's annual Vespers concert and a week later in our sanctuary.
     
    I was able to purchase stem tracks of our work to supplement my rhythm section (piano, drums, bass, Ac & El guitar) and the few local brass & woodwind players we could round up.
     
    I spent just yesterday setting up the Cakewalk projects.  I will have 13 tracks at the most and typically 9 tracks for each song going at a time.  At the college venue, our keyboard player will be running this from my SurfacePro 4 into a Behringer XR18 which has 8 assignable outputs with which we will feed the on stage sound system and IE monitors for the rhythm section and conductor.  At the church it will be located in the media booth and will use my MOTU 8M with an AD8000 via ADAT for 16 outputs total and send all tracks individually to our Allen & Heath Qu32 where the engineer can mix as needed.
     
    I built my Playlist in Sonar Plat and gave it a trial run in my office.  Load times between songs was relatively fast - less than 10 seconds.  You have to set up each song in the playlist by right-clicking and choosing whether you want the next track to play automatically or wait for key press (Space Bar or Enter as a dialogue opens asking if you want to play the next track).  I also set up markers to correspond to the rehearsal markings in the score and then saved it with the Marker view open for efficient rehearsals.
     
    We will do a dry run at our first combined rehearsal with both choir & orchestra on the 26th.  I too used the playlist with MIDI back in the day and loved it.  With today's technology, it should work just as well with audio.  I'll report back how it goes but I'm feeling very confident about it so far.
     
    EDITed to correct misinformation.
    post edited by fwrend - 2017/11/18 13:44:19

    Wren 

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