Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks?

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TremoJem
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2014/01/05 00:06:10 (permalink)

Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks?

I popped a CD in that has a drum mix I want my drum mix to sound like, and it has been mentioned here that it is a good practice to compare my mix with a reference CD, etc.
 
The question I have is that when I do this my CD volume level is three times as loud (media player with no eq'ing or any effects) as my mix that I am comparing it to.
 
Is this normal?
 
Is there some setting I am missing in Sonar to correct this?
 
I am mixing and sending to the Master and then checking my main out and I have it as high as I can without clipping.
 
Thanks for your answers on this.

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    Splat
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/05 00:39:59 (permalink)
    To make media player quieter there is a volume control somewhere...
     
    However I suggest you RIP a song off the CD so you have a WAV file, and then import it into a new track in Sonar (into the project you are mixing). Job done.

    Reference CD's are great, lots of top producers use them, but remember you can have your own style if you want it. End of the day you are in charge.
     
    if you just want to A/B Wav files Audacity has a really good facility to do this.
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/01/05 00:47:09

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    #2
    Grivanov
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/05 01:01:20 (permalink)
    Alex is absolutely right !
    I usually do this:
    RIP a song off the CD. Insert audio track (stereo) and make out from it directly to the one of the stereo outputs of my soundcard . Import reference audio to this track. All other tracks and buses are aimed at the main bus (Master), where they are processed and mastering effects. Output of Master is the same like your reference track out. 

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    #3
    TremoJem
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/05 01:12:59 (permalink)
    That is great.
     
    I had to turn down the volume of the media player to level out each comparison and it worked, but it seemed like something was wrong.
     
    I love the fact that I can just place it on Sonar in the manner you have described.
     
    That is excellent and I am so thankful for the great tip.
     
    I will do this immediately.
     
    I totally agree that I am in charge and that is what I am looking forward to, but being new to this I needed something to guide me in the process of tracking drums and mixing them.
     
    I made alot of ground tonight having done exactly this. And, I learned so many things that blew my mind. For example I had horrible bass blooming on the toms. I first compressed the track slightly, then I added LP64EQ and found the frequency that was problematic and removed it. Then, I opened another separate LP64EQ and eq'd the track to what I wanted it to sound like and it worked amazingly. What I did not know was that I could even do this.
     
    I thought I was going to have to use "write automation" to change eq settings while the track was running, but instead, decided to "try" using LP64EQ twice. The plugin removed the problematic frequency and then in another iteration allowed me to eq the track to what I wanted. It was so cool.
     
    Thanks guys.
     
     

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    #4
    mettelus
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/05 01:31:49 (permalink)
    Depending on the audio track (if it has nicely defined beats in it), you can use that same trick above to audio snap the track before you even start working on your version, which can come in rather handy. That allows you to take advantage of using MIDI to drive soft synths and drums very efficiently.
     
    For something that is "just drums" you can also use audiosnap for drum replacement. In case this fits the bill for you, here is a quick video on that technique.

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/05 06:14:48 (permalink)
    TremoJem
    That is great.
     
    I had to turn down the volume of the media player to level out each comparison and it worked, but it seemed like something was wrong.
     
    I love the fact that I can just place it on Sonar in the manner you have described.
     
    That is excellent and I am so thankful for the great tip.
     
    I will do this immediately.
     
    I totally agree that I am in charge and that is what I am looking forward to, but being new to this I needed something to guide me in the process of tracking drums and mixing them.
     
    I made alot of ground tonight having done exactly this. And, I learned so many things that blew my mind. For example I had horrible bass blooming on the toms. I first compressed the track slightly, then I added LP64EQ and found the frequency that was problematic and removed it. Then, I opened another separate LP64EQ and eq'd the track to what I wanted it to sound like and it worked amazingly. What I did not know was that I could even do this.
     
    I thought I was going to have to use "write automation" to change eq settings while the track was running, but instead, decided to "try" using LP64EQ twice. The plugin removed the problematic frequency and then in another iteration allowed me to eq the track to what I wanted. It was so cool.
     
    Thanks guys.
     
     




    You might find the LP64 to be a bit of a resource hungry plugin.
    You would probably get the exact same sound you want by using something a little more CPU friendly, like the Sonitus

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    jerrypettit
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/05 08:18:45 (permalink)
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    TremoJem
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/05 08:36:26 (permalink)
    Great stuff guys, thanks.
     
    One question, how does the narrator on the video know the kick is "C3" when making this adjustment to the options of audiosnap?

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    #8
    mettelus
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/05 08:38:47 (permalink)
    That is the default for the "kick drum" on most drum maps. The drums are typically assigned in a set pattern starting with C3 and going up a MIDI controller.
     
    Check the "Percussive" section for General MIDI. Most (not all) drum maps cater to this standard.
     
    Edit: So I don't confuse you there, B3 is the "Acoustic Bass drum" which is the starting note. C3 is note 36, which is usually the heavier hitting of the two.
    post edited by mettelus - 2014/01/05 08:49:29

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    TremoJem
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/05 08:41:33 (permalink)
    Hmmm, I will have to check this out. I obviously never used it.
     
    So much to learn and so little time.

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    #10
    dlesaux
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/05 09:19:28 (permalink)
    +1 for SampleMagic AB! I use this all of the time!

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    TremoJem
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/05 09:52:59 (permalink)
    That is some great stuff. Man, I feel stupid.

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    lawajava
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/05 11:29:04 (permalink)
    dlesaux
    +1 for SampleMagic AB! I use this all of the time!


    Agreed. I have SampleMagic AB in my template Sonar X3 file. I include it for use in every song.

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    TremoJem
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/05 11:35:07 (permalink)
    Am I missing something. I can't find the US price for MagicAB.
     
    All good...found it. $49.07.
     
     

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    Splat
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/05 11:48:37 (permalink)
    If you want to save yourself some money, send the tracks to your busses, then assign bus SOLO's as a group (right click on the buttons). Then go into group manager, click the custom radio button, and flip the values for one of the SOLO buttons.
     
    Now you can SOLO between busses and you can override the behaviour with CTRL + Click.
    Make it into a screenset if you like and save as template.
     
    Cheers..
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/01/05 14:11:05

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    bobbyswamp
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/05 13:05:34 (permalink)
    mettelus
     
    ...For something that is "just drums" you can also use audiosnap for drum replacement. In case this fits the bill for you, here is a quick video on that technique.




    Wow. That video opened up a new world for me with drum tracks. Thanks for posting...

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    Pragi
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/06 04:30:29 (permalink)
    TremoJem
    I popped a CD in that has a drum mix I want my drum mix to sound like, and it has been mentioned here that it is a good practice to compare my mix with a reference CD, etc.
     
    The question I have is that when I do this my CD volume level is three times as loud (media player with no eq'ing or any effects) as my mix that I am comparing it to.
     
    Is this normal?
     
    Is there some setting I am missing in Sonar to correct this?
     
    I am mixing and sending to the Master and then checking my main out and I have it as high as I can without clipping.
     
    Thanks for your answers on this.


    Hi,
    the volume of  a song in the mixing phase should not be that loud as a 
    fully (pre-) mastered song. 
    But shure you are aware of leaving some headroom for mastering,or?
     
    Have fun 
    Pragi
     
    #17
    TremoJem
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    Re: Using a reference CD and comparing it to my tracks? 2014/01/07 05:59:59 (permalink)
    Yes, I get that, and I am leaving room for mastering...I think I am at -6db, but the reference was three or four times as loud.
     
    I understand now with regards to copying the wave file to a stereo track within Sonar, and I like the idea of MagicAB and Buss Soloing.
     
    Great help here as always, thanks everyone.

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