ProMusic27
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VS 700 R converters
I am trying to find out wich converters VS 700 R uses...I didn't look any further in the forum for this answer, but, in an overall look, i didn't find the answer yet.
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Dyonight
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/07 08:16:43
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Do you mean the chip or the whole circuit and if it's took from an existing device?
If the latest, it's probably the same as the M400 mixer but I can't swear on this.
I don't want to hijack your thread but maybe you know if the pres in the M400 are the same that those used in the RSS digital snake? Not very documented either!
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Sacalait
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/07 12:13:26
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I haven't opened it up to look either. All I can say is I'm happy with what I hear. I moved from a Mytek>RME Multiface II to the MyTek>VS700 and I'm absolutely hearing things much better. ...those broken phrases like: 'wider with more depth' and 'more transparency" actually apply. (Yes, it's true the Mytek is doing the A/D conversion- but that's only part of the story. I'm also using a Focusrite ISA One into the VS preamp and getting similar sounding results. Further, the preamps aren't bad at all. Not equal to the A-Designs Pacifica's I use for the most part but not bad). I have a couple of recordings I'll point you to if you'd like to hear what this sounds like.
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Dyonight
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/07 13:33:14
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Just an interesting fact, the preamps are class-A circuitry. Is it marketing hype or a real benefit I don't know, but they talk a little more on this octa-Capture page: http://www.rolandus.com/go/octa-capture/, which preamps and probably converters are very similar. And yeah... I'm off topic again but I thought some may be interested to know, I'll stop after this one!
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Dimaman
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/07 16:45:14
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I have read on product descriptions that the converter tech is the same converters as in the Roland Mixer/Recorders. I'll try to find the ad.
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ProMusic27
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/07 16:58:59
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Huuummm. I am pretty curious about it... In fact this is occurring me because of the Scalait statement about the RME Multiface. I never had the opportunity to listen to the RMEs quality... But they have a very good acceptation. I have the digital snake installed on my churches... I allready used them to record live, wich is very powerfull indeed. But I am, like I said, curious about the converters in the VS 700... Is there DICEs converters? CIRRUS? Or what? When I found out this answer, or someone come up with it, I will do a subsequent one... (mystery) PS. I allready knew the Scalait statement because I had read it in other thread. Peace!
post edited by ProMusic27 - 2011/02/07 17:00:56
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listen
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/08 09:02:27
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ProMusic27
Huuummm. I am pretty curious about it... In fact this is occurring me because of the Scalait statement about the RME Multiface. I never had the opportunity to listen to the RMEs quality... But they have a very good acceptation.
I have the digital snake installed on my churches... I allready used them to record live, wich is very powerfull indeed.
But I am, like I said, curious about the converters in the VS 700... Is there DICEs converters? CIRRUS? Or what?
When I found out this answer, or someone come up with it, I will do a subsequent one... (mystery)
PS. I allready knew the Scalait statement because I had read it in other thread.
Peace!
I'm curious to know too - is your opinion of them good, bad or neither????
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ProMusic27
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/08 09:49:23
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listen
I'm curious to know too - is your opinion of them good, bad or neither????
I don't know, compared to what? Products in it's price range? Maybe without the Fantom VS (to me, a very weak part of the solution) the system would be in another price range... So, compared to what? With M-Audio? Then the answer is: VS 700 R is very honest... But, with RMEs... I am very surprised with Sacalait reviews... Thats the reason why I want to know wich tecnology is in use... This will give us a real idea of the product market position, in quality therms. There is another thread in this forum, named "VS 700 R for sale"... That guy is going after a RME UFX... He didn't declared VS 700 R as a lower quality interface, but, can they be compared???
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Sacalait
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/08 10:55:02
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I said this in another thread: I believe RME and the VS700R at the 'bottom of the top-end interfaces'. Or said another way, both are entry-level to top end gear. (So it's very good thing and the price reflects where a FF800/ FF800 UFX and the VS700R are located in the chain). If you can't make a great sounding record (worthy of airplay, film, whatever) with either, you should change your vocation.
I haven't owned the FF800 or the FF800 UFX. I have (still) a MultiFace II with the PCI card. For me it came down the the UFX or the VS700. I'm pleased with my decision. I don't yet have the controller (700C) but will soon.
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ProMusic27
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/08 12:13:05
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Sacalait
If you can't make a great sounding record (worthy of airplay, film, whatever) with either, you should change your vocation.
I don't ask for advices about my vocation did I...? In fact I did lots of great records... As far as i can remember, my first one was using 2 ADATs XT and an Yamaha 03D, back in 1996... The song went to the 1st place and got there 4 weeks in a row, nationally speaking, in the number 1 station in Brazil... Just for the record... And, also for the record, I wasn't doubting about what you had declared, or questioning your technical skills or knowledgement...I was, and still am, just surprised about your comparison. But if you are uncomfortable because I quoted you... I can undo that. You want me to?
post edited by ProMusic27 - 2011/02/08 12:14:56
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Dyonight
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/08 15:03:33
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But I am, like I said, curious about the converters in the VS 700... Is there DICEs converters? CIRRUS? Or what?
Probably a stupid question... but if someone who want to know (me...) remove the top panel of the VS700r, will he be able to identify the converters brand inside? I can even post pictures of the inside in the case I really don't know... which at 99% will be the case...
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Sacalait
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/08 17:03:12
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ProMusic: Sorry man. That statement was not intended- at all- to be aimed at you. I meant it as a generalization about the product itself. I said the exact thing on the Gearslutz.com forum about the FF800 UFX.
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Norrie
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/08 19:01:53
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Dyonight
But I am, like I said, curious about the converters in the VS 700... Is there DICEs converters? CIRRUS? Or what?
Probably a stupid question... but if someone who want to know (me...) remove the top panel of the VS700r, will he be able to identify the converters brand inside?
I can even post pictures of the inside in the case I really don't know... which at 99% will be the case...
I would be carefull if you were to remove the case you might lose all warenty on the unit. I am sure tec suport could answer for you if you email them ?
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ProMusic27
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/09 05:28:34
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Sacalait
ProMusic: Sorry man. That statement was not intended- at all- to be aimed at you. I meant it as a generalization about the product itself. I said the exact thing on the Gearslutz.com forum about the FF800 UFX.
Sacalait... I am a portuguese speaker... There will be, always, the language barrier, plus the culture and so on... That said, I ask you to sorry me, because I misunderstood the meanig of your post. I am a peacefull guy, and i regret because of my attitude. God bless you.
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ProMusic27
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/09 05:36:11
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Norrie
Dyonight
But I am, like I said, curious about the converters in the VS 700... Is there DICEs converters? CIRRUS? Or what?
Probably a stupid question... but if someone who want to know (me...) remove the top panel of the VS700r, will he be able to identify the converters brand inside?
I can even post pictures of the inside in the case I really don't know... which at 99% will be the case...
I would be carefull if you were to remove the case you might lose all warenty on the unit.
I am sure tec suport could answer for you if you email them ?
It's a little bit funny nobody knews the answer (including me)... This part of the system is so, or even more, important than the Class-A amplifiers... I guess this supose to be something Rolands (or Cake) should be proud about. Like an engine in a sport car. Where is this information? This is not irrelevant... But it ain't easy to find... Is there a V8? V6? A turbo? What is under the hood?
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Dyonight
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/09 08:18:34
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I would be carefull if you were to remove the case you might lose all warenty on the unit.
I am sure tec suport could answer for you if you email them ?
Yeah Norrie you're right but I am confident cause I have dismantled a lot of differents units so far. Obiously if it get to complicated I won't risk damaging the unit.... It's an interesting experiment that I'll try later today!
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Dyonight
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/09 16:11:21
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Here we go, I think that's what we are searching for:
Attached Image(s)
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Dyonight
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/09 16:50:14
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Is anybody understand something?
I saw this AKM chip is not bad at all but is an ADC/DAC , not a specialised adc or dac chip like those used in high-end $tuff. Anyway, the whole network around it don't mean anything to me and is also really important.
I have some other pics of everything if something is missing.
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Norrie
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/09 16:51:47
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Lol This meens nothing to me but interested to see what others say :)
So this was to find out what converters are in it ? Did you find out ?
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Dyonight
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/09 17:14:23
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I think it's the AKM chip (pretty shure in fact), the biggest one at the center.
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Sacalait
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/09 17:44:26
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AT
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/09 18:20:04
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Most of the convertors these days are good. And they are all about the same. The new RME stuff has a few extra dBs, which is good, not critical. Most of the price differential comes from the electronics around the convertors, and more expensive = better. But again, it is a matter of degree, not kind. As Sacalait points out, there are levels of "goodness" (and reputation). You can get good results with even the less expensive ADDA. But once you get past the more homestudio oriented brands and models the sound starts to flatline. The 2nd level brands are, RME, TC and a few others. Pros use them and it doesn't interfer w/ paychecks. Then there are the high-end, boutique ADADs - Lynx, mytek, Lavry, Burl. There are only a few convertor manufactorers around, and the difference between them is the stuff surrounding them. It is nice to have, but at the end of the project most people can't tell the difference between an m-audio and one of the high-end stuff.
And really, as noted above, you are going to get more bang for the buck with preamps (or, gosh darn it, even a mic). But even there, if you can hear the difference, one has to wonder if you are getting 30 times the value between a $50 interface preamp and a $1500 one full of transformers. Again, nice to have but not necessary. The $500 ISA One has all the volume you are likely to need and a rounder tone than the usual transformerless mic preamp.
The moral, don't worry. The difference between high end and consumer ísn't as big as it used to be, and I placed music in Hollywood movies and national releases on a Tascam 38 reel-to-reel back in the day. The vs-700 is more than adequate.
However, If you are selling commercial time, it matters. Name gear is one of the ways you judge a joint. The other is to walk into a new studio and look on the walls to see what the awards they have won.
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http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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ProMusic27
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/10 05:43:57
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Very nice!!! Congrats Dyonight, you went deep in this trip... I thank you. Thanks to AT, Sacalait and Norrie as well. This one was, at least for me, a good thread.
PS.: I believe in the top of A/D/D/A solutions is WEISS equipements...
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Dyonight
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/10 08:17:34
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ProMusic27
Very nice!!! Congrats Dyonight, you went deep in this trip... I was very currious also and am in a process of knowing things that are not clear (even in my personnal life!). So you gave me a great opportunity here! I'm please to know that it contain the coverter chip that even SSL are not shy to use in their "high-end" audio conversion system, which mean for me that the vs is at least an entry "high-end" system. It only mean that even if it do sound very good whatever, this system can be described not as a consumer but a really "pro" system and is easier to introduce to the client in a Protools HD world, cause as AT pointed, brands are important for commercial studios, should I say clients... Concerning the IC network around the AKM, could anyone comment on those? Are those value Behringer-like ic or are they a little more effective? Or maybe that's enough for this thread already... but as AT also said: " Most of the price differential comes from the electronics around the convertors, and more expensive = better". Anyway, thanks to everyone!
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ProMusic27
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/10 13:36:51
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Dyonight
I'm please to know that it contain the coverter chip that even SSL are not shy to use in their "high-end" audio conversion system, which mean for me that the vs is at least an entry "high-end" system.
Concerning the IC network around the AKM, could anyone comment on those? Are those value Behringer-like ic or are they a little more effective? Or maybe that's enough for this thread already... but as AT also said: " Most of the price differential comes from the electronics around the convertors, and more expensive = better".
Like you, I believe if others, with more knowledge, cooperate with this investigation, we can, course, go deeper than we got and, probabily, get more good surprises... I can't do that... I'll wait (we'll) for someone who can. Thanks again Dyonight.
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anniedog
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/02/28 06:03:05
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If I am hijacking you post please forgive me as I think this is related to the topic and not intended to be a hijack . I have owned an RME 800 ff,Focusrite ,uAD , and still have and use a few avalon pres . IMHO ,in the end the actual quality of the final product is the proof.
I have never seen music consumers speculate on the quality of converters or pres.They just know if it sounds good or bad.
I know a few guys that could make a great production with nothing but the most modest of gear. I,m not saying quality does not make a difference. IMHO it all comes down to the weakest links in the chain.
The quality of musicianship, The song, the engineer and producer.
After these links are at least adequate. Then we can discuss spending more money to get that little bit of extra quality.
Listen to what Sir George Martin did with the Beatle albums. They were mostly synced 4 tracks and splices. No overdubs in the beginning .There are very few records even today ,IMHO that can touch the quality of sound, production , engineering ,content and musicianship of Pepper.
I'm not debateing tape verses digital as there is no winning that debate, each has his own opinion.
I do believe though sometimes its like when those people that love wine say they taste all these different flavors.
Are they real or not? They are to the taster.
The people who buy the music are the tasters. We as music creators , in one form or another all have our own favorite toys.
What sounds good to us and our clients means much more then lab spec numbers.
As for me I have worked in large format studios to record with tape in my younger years. For my own use and needs at this time, I like the V studio vs 700 just fine.
It works well and sounds good to me and the people I work with. the end products are good if the front produts are good. like they used to say about computers (GIGO) "Garbage in , Garbage out" I don't really care what name is stamped on the chips of my gear as long as it does the job for me.. Just MHO.
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ProMusic27
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/03/01 06:27:59
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anniedog
If I am hijacking you post please forgive me as I think this is related to the topic and not intended to be a hijack . I have owned an RME 800 ff,Focusrite ,uAD , and still have and use a few avalon pres . IMHO ,in the end the actual quality of the final product is the proof.
I have never seen music consumers speculate on the quality of converters or pres.They just know if it sounds good or bad.
I know a few guys that could make a great production with nothing but the most modest of gear. I,m not saying quality does not make a difference. IMHO it all comes down to the weakest links in the chain.
The quality of musicianship, The song, the engineer and producer.
After these links are at least adequate. Then we can discuss spending more money to get that little bit of extra quality.
Listen to what Sir George Martin did with the Beatle albums. They were mostly synced 4 tracks and splices. No overdubs in the beginning .There are very few records even today ,IMHO that can touch the quality of sound, production , engineering ,content and musicianship of Pepper.
I'm not debateing tape verses digital as there is no winning that debate, each has his own opinion.
I do believe though sometimes its like when those people that love wine say they taste all these different flavors.
Are they real or not? They are to the taster.
The people who buy the music are the tasters. We as music creators , in one form or another all have our own favorite toys.
What sounds good to us and our clients means much more then lab spec numbers.
As for me I have worked in large format studios to record with tape in my younger years. For my own use and needs at this time, I like the V studio vs 700 just fine.
It works well and sounds good to me and the people I work with. the end products are good if the front produts are good. like they used to say about computers (GIGO) "Garbage in , Garbage out" I don't really care what name is stamped on the chips of my gear as long as it does the job for me.. Just MHO.
I agree with you... Specially with the "human resource" part. But, lets pretend sir George Martin and his youngsters was in AbbeyRoad, like it is today, with all the gear and possibilities, Eddie Krammer (or so) at the mixer... I know, sometimes (or everytime), to many resources became counter-productiv, but, they was spetacular musicians and, then, they could make it happen in any situation (in the wealth or in the poverty, kkk)... You know what I mean? Did this hypothetical record ( we have to leave the legend behind, this was a great record ) sound any better? I mean, if You could hear for the first time, both versions (the real one and the hypothetical one). Or, like you said, is just a matter of taste? Other comparison... If a professional photographer take a picture of Gisele Bündchen (my countrymen), in a great studio, with a very good light on her, with a Cannon 1D, with very appropriate lens, and take, the same shot, with a Sony CyberShot... Will they look just the same? Peace...
Mauricio Monteiro - BrazilIntel I7 2.8Ghz 16Gb ram | Win 7 64 | Sonar Platinum 64 | UAD-2 Octo | UAD-2 Quad | VS-700 rack | VS-100 | FaderPort | JBL 4326 monitors | A-88 | Integra 7 | iRig keys 37 PRO | Akai MPD 226 | Full AIRA system | XPS-10 | JP-8000 | Super JV-1080 | R-8 | R-44 field recorder.
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Sacalait
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/03/01 21:12:20
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AnnieDog
What you say is true and I wouldn't disagree. I would add that after talent and superb attitude in the studio, high-end tools are absolutely critical for success. Yes, the Beatles DID cut on 4 tracks BUT the front end was as high-end as you could get on the planet at the time! I'm not certain even the Beatles would have gone into history the way they did had the TOOLS not been equal to the talent- on both sides of the console. (Those preamps and compressors are STILL the Holy Grail for many producers!)
So in todays digital world I don't have issues with folks asking questions about A/D converters and desiring the best quality. The bar is continuosly being raised by manufacturers and it's getting very close to 2" tape- but arguably aint quite there...
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anniedog
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/03/02 14:37:37
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ProMusic27
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Re:VS 700 R converters
2011/03/03 08:58:31
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Nice... Lets keep our knowledge growing...
Thanks everyone ...
Peace
Mauricio Monteiro - BrazilIntel I7 2.8Ghz 16Gb ram | Win 7 64 | Sonar Platinum 64 | UAD-2 Octo | UAD-2 Quad | VS-700 rack | VS-100 | FaderPort | JBL 4326 monitors | A-88 | Integra 7 | iRig keys 37 PRO | Akai MPD 226 | Full AIRA system | XPS-10 | JP-8000 | Super JV-1080 | R-8 | R-44 field recorder.
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