VS-700 ASIO DLL / Driver ...

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starfield
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2017/03/15 07:51:41 (permalink)

VS-700 ASIO DLL / Driver ...

As I am like many others here trying to keep a former flagship product alive, looks like going forward and with Win10 Creators update, there might be need for some additiional community or even (as a huge hope) some cakewalk/Roland support ...
First of all I would like to explain the issues (and related ask for help including hope for cakewalk support) :
Status : I still use the VS-700 Console & 2 I/O's with 3 DAW's : SONAR Platinum (2017/2), Ableton Live (9.7.1) and Cubase (9.0.10 & 8.5.30). Running on a Dell T7500 dual XEON(12 physical/24 logical cores) with 96 GB memory. Win 10 Ver 1607 (Build 14393.693).
The basic driver (patched to support Win10) is perfectly stable, Console & I/O run smooth with some minor issues (e.g. Cubase does not support the time code/bars display on the console).
I hope the above gives the context of my current environment, before I explain the issue ...

LONG BEFORE VS-700 offical support ended I noticed the following :

Using ZETA v2 (Z3TA+ 2) "killed" the VS-700 ASIO driver. OS Device manager showed HW & VS-700 driver being fine. Device still worked as Win7/later 8.1 sound device, BUT ASIO was not available.
I opened a Ticket at cakewalk, which was not responded to. Having a bunch of other plug-ins I dropped ZETA completely to avoid the ASIO kill symptom.
Obviously ZETA & Cubase use ASIO similar ways, since the latest Cubase updates (9.0.10 & 8.5.30) also JUST KILL VS-700 ASIO driver. Downloading latest ZETA confirmed the "original" behaviour - I can pick the VS-700 ASIO, BUT have no choice of Outputs and once I close ZETA VS-700 ASIO driver is gone.
 
Sadly enough : EDIROL/Roland has been able to provide for the M-16DX a Win10 driver and a stable ASIO driver. Architecture looks completely similar!!! So possibly Craig & Team might still provide some contacts there for a possible resolution for VS-700.

I have tried to find the ASIO DLL which still works and does not kill ZETA not Cubase, how :

I changed the DLL within the driver installation package and Windows/Sytem32 package - gained with that approach using the Win7 driver DLL stability for SONAR PLATINUM & Ableton (lower latancy usable on large projects before drops occurred). BUT have not been able to find the ONE before ZETA issues started.

Could please someone from Cakewalk provide all the available ASIO DLL versions, possibly with available release notes?
There might still be the right ASIO available to solve the problem ...

Ideally a last pretty small effort by contacting e.g. the M-16DX developers (or some cakewalk developers resources) might help getting a Win10 driver and ASIO DLL fixed ....

@Craig/Noel/wider cakewalk Team : Please help!!!
@Community : Please help by gathering all the different available ASIO DLL version (e.g. driver v2.02 came with one stamped at 1:23 and another 2:23).

Hope we might get this back on track, before we have to solve the Win10 Creators update related issues ...


Thanks,
 
Starfield

Win10SP1,SONAR Platinum, Cubase 8 Pro, Ableton Live, Cakewalk : VS-700 Cons. & 2 I/O's. YAMAHA Tyros4, MOTIF XS Rack, MOXF8,  Roland JUNO Stage. Dell Precision T7500 Dual HexCore 5650@3.5GHz, 96GB RAM
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    azslow3
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    Re: VS-700 ASIO DLL / Driver ... 2017/03/16 17:21:41 (permalink)
    I just want to say thanks for that information. That can be a good tip in which direction should I look next time I see something weird. Not with the same hardware and not under the same conditions, but I could observe a "memory effect" of ZETA (standalone) and ASIO.
     
    Let me explain. Note that I am not convinced that is correlated with your problem, but who knows.
     
    I do not think applications can technically "kill" ASIO drivers explicitly. I mean I do not believe that ZETA during installation overwrite some drivers or settings for them.
     
    Updating some shared MS runtime  theoretically can course problems (in case the driver is badly written). But that is relatively easy to check on "clean" system. If the driver stop working right after some other program installation, I mean BEFORE you run the program for the first time (but normally after reboot), the problem is most probably in the runtime installed with the program (most program bring MS runtime version which they like, and run its installer without asking the user first...).
     
    But if driver stop working only AFTER you run the program at least once, I guess the reason is different. That guess comes from your post and my observations before.
     
    When an application access ASIO drivers, it (logically) set ASIO parameters in the driver. That is not visible in some ASIO panels (f.e. Roland VS20, TS-11) but it is visible in other (f.e. M-Audio). That parameter can have "memory effect", I mean they can be saved somewhere in the system (by the driver, not the application) (again, that is from my M-audio observations).
     
    And now the guess: if that particular setting are triggering some bug in the driver (mode not supported, HW timeout, simply a software bug), than the application can not work with that driver at all since there is no chance to change these settings before the driver crash/stuck and there is no chance to change the setting before you select that driver in the application.
     
    And in case the driver has "memory effect", that bad settings are saved. And each time the driver is loaded (can be after reboot and in other application), it tries to apply bad settings (as the default) and immediately crash/stuck. For the user, the result is "the driver is killed by the application".
     
    I repeat, that is just a guess. May be off-topic to your post. But I have decided to write it, may be someone will one day confirm or disintegrate it...
     
     

    Sonar 8LE -> Platinum, Windows 10 pro
    GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
    M-Audio Audiophile Firewire, SB X-Fi Gamer, Kawai CN43, Roland A500S, TD-11, VS-20, Akai MPK Mini, Peavey StudioMix etc.
    www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR
    #2
    starfield
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    Re: VS-700 ASIO DLL / Driver ... 2017/03/17 08:29:34 (permalink)
    I completely agree with your observations and should have been more carefull with my words used to describe the issue. The ASIO driver (ONLY) "hangs", gets "stuck" is not released after using ZETA (or Cubase), with that it is not available for any application (SONAR, Ableton, ADKeys, etc.). Error message states : Driver for this device not available or still used by another application.
    Nevertheless the device VS-700 in device manager does not show any errors and works still fine on OS level, BUT not as ASIO device. The only way to get ASIO up again is restart or reinstall, since this is the only way to initialize ASIO again and have it available.
     
    Well behaving applications are : SONAR, Ableton Live, EZdrums, EZKeys, Halion6 ... meaning those do release the ASIO driver each time started and closed again.
     
    I obsereved that "not released ASIO driver" first with ZETA (and unfortunately latest releases of Cubase 8.5, 9 & Dorico show same behaviour).
     
    It would be great being able to re-start/re-install JUST the ASIO diver after having such an issue.
     
    One final and probably most important note : Using the steinberg provided "General Low Latancy ASIO driver" with VS-700 NEVER causes any problems within any application. BUT it only gives 1 Stereo Input + 1 Stereo Output (40 ms latency @96kHz, 24bit). This is a clear indication towards a bug within the cakewalk/Roland ASIO driver for VS-700. :-(:-(:-(
     
    And my hope bringing this up in this forum was to find out, if there is a version of the RDAS1089.DLL not having that "not releasing ASIO driver" bug.
     
    My impression is that ASIO/VST implementation knowledge never was a strength at cakewalk/Roland. Another example : My MOXF8 & MOTIF Rack XS VST3 interfaces just do not work within SONAR, can not assign MDI inputs, because standard Channel 1 inputs are not offered for selection. :-(
     
    Right now I am trying to complete a native Win10 VS-700 driver package (before Win10 Creators release hits) and hope I might get ridd of all my issues at once with that.
     
    Meanwhile hoping for any further input from the bakers ... on e.g. how to possibly just restart ASIO driver without a full driver package re-install, or to explain what ZETA (standalone) does different from SONAR PLATINUM accessing VS-700 ASIO driver?!?
     

    Win10SP1,SONAR Platinum, Cubase 8 Pro, Ableton Live, Cakewalk : VS-700 Cons. & 2 I/O's. YAMAHA Tyros4, MOTIF XS Rack, MOXF8,  Roland JUNO Stage. Dell Precision T7500 Dual HexCore 5650@3.5GHz, 96GB RAM
    #3
    azslow3
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    Re: VS-700 ASIO DLL / Driver ... 2017/03/17 15:51:42 (permalink)
    What you can check is that ASIO settings in ZETA are EXACTLY the same as in Sonar. If they are different, you may be have to first change them then completely restart the system before checking that helps. If they are the same, you still can try more relaxed settings in ZETA (and set more relaxed settings in ASIO pannel when ZETA is running). Again, for test you probably have to restart the system after (normally switching off/on the device helps, but not always).
     
    I do not think ZETA is not releasing ASIO, it is more likely that the driver is stuck in that releasing (so the driver problem). Note that Cakewalk can not help with that part, I do not think they have ever seen Roland source code...
     
    "General ASIO" drivers are probably a kind of ASIO4ALL, they are not working throw ASIO API at all. Also note that they can course problems when installed. The reason is not understood, but there are several observations (including my own) that happens.
     
    VST3 standard is much more tricky then VST2. And so more bugs are possible on both sides. It can be MOTIF is expecting something Sonar does not have or providing something Sonar does not understand. By the standard, both sides should be prepared that other side has not implemented particular feature. But in practice that is far from always the case.
     

    Sonar 8LE -> Platinum, Windows 10 pro
    GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
    M-Audio Audiophile Firewire, SB X-Fi Gamer, Kawai CN43, Roland A500S, TD-11, VS-20, Akai MPK Mini, Peavey StudioMix etc.
    www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR
    #4
    M@
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    Re: VS-700 ASIO DLL / Driver ... 2017/04/01 19:23:46 (permalink)
    Hi Guys,
    I have written to CW about this already long time ago without reply. It not only is caused with Zeta but also with Dimension pro and only in the Standalone applications. I am pretty sure it appeared since VSt3 standard was introduced. I am quite busy just at the moment but when I find time I will check on all mails/posts I sent and provide more info what was going on on my system. Problem remains unsolved at least on my system......

    Tracking: Sonar Platinum (X3 Producer, X2 studio, X1 expanded, 8.3) (64bit)
    System: Win10 Pro (64bit), Asus  P8Z77 V Le Plus, I7-3770k, 16GB Ram, SSD System drive, Raid1 Recording & Backup drive, VS-700 Set, TC Konnekt 48
    Instruments: Roland Juno Stage, Kawai CA5, Washburn X50Pro, Blackstar-One100, Merida,...
    #5
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