californiamusic
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VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
What do you guys use when recording Vocals.. Outboard compressors or VST ? I seem to have the best results with Vocals when I compress them before they hit the soundcard. VST compressors haven't worked as well for me. ; )
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/17 12:18:26
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VST all the way here.
I do own a couple of outboard compressors, but they're nothing like high end.
Some of the vst compressors I own seek to emulate what would be considered High End in the hardware world, and I think they do a reasonable job of attaining this goal.
So, the bottom line is, I'd rather put my vocals (or anything else) through a decent vst than a cheap hardware unit.
And of course, unless you are absolutely sure about what you're doing with the hardware, you run the risk of utterly destroying what might have been the one take that could never be repeated.
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cowboydan
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/17 12:22:21
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I think once you compress the vocals before it enters the box, then that is what you have to work with. If you compress too much thats where the problems begin. You cant take the compression away or change the level of compression.
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Razorwit
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/17 12:30:40
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Hi Californiamusic,
It's pretty common to compress on the way in, but I'd never do it with a vocalist that I was unfamiliar with. If you want to use outboard and have decent converters you don't lose anything by recording uncompressed and then sending that track through your outboard gear later. I frequently record myself or singers I'm really familiar with though an 1176 or 525, but if it's some singer that I don't know on material that I haven't heard I'll just record dry and do it later.
As far as VST vs hardware, I tend to use hardware on critical tracks, but a lot of the VST's out there are very good....UAD, IK, Softube, Waves and the Pro Channel compressors all see lots of use in my joint.
Absolutely agree with good VST is better than poor hardware, btw...
Dean
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Guitarhacker
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/17 12:31:29
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My music interface, the Focusrite Saffire, has DSP built in.... but I guess that could be debated whether it is digital or hardware. It's not a VST like we understand VST's to be....where you add it to a track or buss in a project.
It's a compressor on the input and I have it set to a very light setting, since I pretty much never go in to change it. There's also reverb and EQ in the DSP settings too, but they are not used much either..... set and forget.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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JSGlen
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/17 12:55:01
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I always compress on the way in with an 1176 or LA2A. It has been very common practice for many, many years, and is still a common practice by many engineers and producers. It is just a practice I've used long before DAW's came into being. After doing it for a long time you can just rehearse an artist and determine your settings. Sure, sometimes you may need to make further adjustments if the genre of music is not your typical specialty.
That being said, with today's DAW technology you certainly do not need to compress going in. Plug-ins are getting better, but, in my opinion hardware will be put to good use for many years to come.
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Razorwit
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/17 13:15:24
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JSGlen
I always compress on the way in with an 1176 or LA2A. It has been very common practice for many, many years, and is still a common practice by many engineers and producers. It is just a practice I've used long before DAW's came into being. After doing it for a long time you can just rehearse an artist and determine your settings. Sure, sometimes you may need to make further adjustments if the genre of music is not your typical specialty.
That being said, with today's DAW technology you certainly do not need to compress going in. Plug-ins are getting better, but, in my opinion hardware will be put to good use for many years to come.
+1 to all this (and I'm super jealous of your LA-2A...I gotta get one of those) To the O.P. - One more thing to consider is how the production is going to happen after tracking. It's increasingly common these days to track somewhere and then ship it off somewhere else to mix. If you're sending the tracks to a different mixer you may not want to compress on the way in to avoid limiting the mixing engineers options. OTOH, if you have a better compressor than the mix engineer does (say, an LA-2A  ), you may want to use it after all, but only after consulting with the other engineer. Shorter answer, there isn't really a rule on this....it's a situational decision. Dean
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/17 13:15:56
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My music interface, the Focusrite Saffire, has DSP built in.... but I guess that could be debated whether it is digital or hardware. It's not a VST like we understand VST's to be....where you add it to a track or buss in a project.
FWIW, Those digital EFX/processors are post A/D... so it's really no different than using plugins after the fact (other than no load on the CPU). With modern day i7 CPUs, compressors are typically pretty light load... Personally, I'd rather see audio interface manufacturers focus on pushing the envolope of lowest possible round-trip latency. I've already got prime EQ, Dynamics, Reverb, etc. I don't need mediocre' DSP offerings to create cue mixes. Give me rock-solid performance at the lowest possible round-trip latency. At this point in time, I like to track sans compression. I usually use a LA-2A, 1176, SSL Channel, or SSL Bus compressor (depending on what I want/need). That covers a lot of ground...
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Razorwit
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/17 13:17:48
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Jim Roseberry
My music interface, the Focusrite Saffire, has DSP built in.... but I guess that could be debated whether it is digital or hardware. It's not a VST like we understand VST's to be....where you add it to a track or buss in a project.
FWIW, Those digital EFX/processors are post A/D... so it's really no different than using plugins after the fact (other than no load on the CPU).
With modern day i7 CPUs, compressors are typically pretty light load...
At this point in time, I like to track sans compression.
I usually use a LA-2A, 1176, SSL Channel, or SSL Bus compressor (depending on what I want/need).
That covers a lot of ground...
Wait, Jim, you have an LA-2A as well? Sheesh....I'm starting to feel a bit left out here... Now, where was that credit card..... Dean
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/17 13:22:48
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Wait, Jim, you have an LA-2A as well? Sheesh....I'm starting to feel a bit left out here... Now, where was that credit card..... Hi Dean, No... I have several different "LA-2A" plugin options. I track without compression.
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JSGlen
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/17 13:29:54
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Razorwit
JSGlen
I always compress on the way in with an 1176 or LA2A. It has been very common practice for many, many years, and is still a common practice by many engineers and producers. It is just a practice I've used long before DAW's came into being. After doing it for a long time you can just rehearse an artist and determine your settings. Sure, sometimes you may need to make further adjustments if the genre of music is not your typical specialty.
That being said, with today's DAW technology you certainly do not need to compress going in. Plug-ins are getting better, but, in my opinion hardware will be put to good use for many years to come.
+1 to all this (and I'm super jealous of your LA-2A...I gotta get one of those)
To the O.P. - One more thing to consider is how the production is going to happen after tracking. It's increasingly common these days to track somewhere and then ship it off somewhere else to mix. If you're sending the tracks to a different mixer you may not want to compress on the way in to avoid limiting the mixing engineers options. OTOH, if you have a better compressor than the mix engineer does (say, an LA-2A ), you may want to use it after all, but only after consulting with the other engineer.
Shorter answer, there isn't really a rule on this....it's a situational decision.
Dean
Actually Dean, I only have an 1176. The LA2A is shared between me and a friend. Jay
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Middleman
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/17 13:36:23
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I use one of three hardware compressors when tracking vocalists.
1176
LA2A
Portico 5043
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chuckebaby
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/17 13:40:26
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nothing.except sometimes a de esser,proper vocal habits lead to proper levels.what you can do after is more important them whats happening before imo.
thats ofcourse unless you have one of those guys that swallows the microphone and goes from dead quite to explostions.
just as when i recieve a project to master,i want it as unproccessed as possible.
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panup
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/17 14:04:21
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I use hardware compressor before A/D conversion, usually 1176. Never had any problems of over using.
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AT
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/17 14:31:48
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Yea, if you have nice hardware it makes sense to use it. The more experienced you are and the more familiar w/ what sound you want the harder you can use your outboard going in. Just be aware you are printing it and won't be able to change the sound w/o a lot of work - or at all.
A lot of VSTs these days are really good, and even the sonitus comp is a very flexible tool. Better than outboard in some situations. I like to serially compress for a more natural sound - more of a gentle massage over time rather than rolfing. A little going in, a little compression on the track, mix hot and a little overall during mastering.
Use all the tools you have - some will work better at times.
@
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/18 03:58:05
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A little going in, a little compression on the track, mix hot and a little overall during mastering. For God's sake don't mention this to Ben!!!!
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AT
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/18 14:54:03
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Man it is the third order harmonics that make a vocal hot hot hot! Transistor hot.
@
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Freddie H
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/18 18:17:13
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californiamusic
What do you guys use when recording Vocals.. Outboard compressors or VST ? I seem to have the best results with Vocals when I compress them before they hit the soundcard. VST compressors haven't worked as well for me. ; )
During recording ----> Outboard hardware "Vocal strip" De esser, Compressor, Expanders etc..Manley Voicebox.. Avalon   After that inside the DAW. Pro Channels modules and , PC2A-T-Type etc..., other gates, de esser + other 3part plugins... http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/ProChannel-Modules/PC2A-T-Type-Leveling-Amplifier.aspx 
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californiamusic
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/18 21:57:12
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Ahh If I could only afford a Manley Anything..
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carlosagm79
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/18 22:38:57
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Hey Bro, I love Sony and Waves compressors, you don't really need hardware
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Zo
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/19 00:51:42
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Cali just put a Cl1B and cry (by emotion) even a Rvox (from waves) will do the job ...then route all your vocals tracks on a bus (i have one for lead vox , one for hook , both goes on a main vox bus then) put what ever you want on + a LA2A (the waves is excellent and prserved the transient , the pc2a also iks wiked)
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A1MixMan
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/19 02:42:00
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Razorwit
Hi Californiamusic,
It's pretty common to compress on the way in, but I'd never do it with a vocalist that I was unfamiliar with. If you want to use outboard and have decent converters you don't lose anything by recording uncompressed and then sending that track through your outboard gear later. I frequently record myself or singers I'm really familiar with though an 1176 or 525, but if it's some singer that I don't know on material that I haven't heard I'll just record dry and do it later.
As far as VST vs hardware, I tend to use hardware on critical tracks, but a lot of the VST's out there are very good....UAD, IK, Softube, Waves and the Pro Channel compressors all see lots of use in my joint.
Absolutely agree with good VST is better than poor hardware, btw...
Dean
Wow great responce Dean!
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Guitarhacker
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/19 08:12:18
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Jim Roseberry
My music interface, the Focusrite Saffire, has DSP built in.... but I guess that could be debated whether it is digital or hardware. It's not a VST like we understand VST's to be....where you add it to a track or buss in a project.
FWIW, Those digital EFX/processors are post A/D... so it's really no different than using plugins after the fact (other than no load on the CPU). With modern day i7 CPUs, compressors are typically pretty light load...
Personally, I'd rather see audio interface manufacturers focus on pushing the envolope of lowest possible round-trip latency. I've already got prime EQ, Dynamics, Reverb, etc. I don't need mediocre' DSP offerings to create cue mixes. Give me rock-solid performance at the lowest possible round-trip latency.
At this point in time, I like to track sans compression.
I usually use a LA-2A, 1176, SSL Channel, or SSL Bus compressor (depending on what I want/need).
That covers a lot of ground...
That clears that up for me.... thanks. I knew the settings I had in there were very light because I did not want any undue color or "other" added to the mix. Next time I'm in the DAW, I'll reopen that Saffire control panel and have a look at those settings with a more critical eye. I may just turn them all off and record for a while that way. again thanks Jim
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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ProjectM
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Re:VST Compressors -vs- Outboard Compressors on Vocals
2012/05/19 08:18:27
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If I'm not pluging straight into my Audio Interface I like to use a little light compressor to just ease off the volume peaks a little. Plus, with a lot of things I do, singers prefer just a little bit of compression so they can push themselves as much as they want without worry and their own volume is slightly more consistent. It's a psychological thing nad the performance is usually better. But I never let the compressor compress at all times. Most of the signal is recorded without any processing. The key is to have a transparent compressor if you want to do it like this. I usually use a Focusrite Isa220 for this without any EQ and Limiting - unless for voice over stuff. I tend to process a little more for that. Then in Mix I add as many VSTs as I have!!!! Or at least feel the need for
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