VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?)

Author
Digital Aura
Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5118
  • Joined: 2004/01/18 13:30:46
  • Location: Petrolia,Ontario ORIGINAL P5 FORUM JUNKIE
  • Status: offline
2005/11/11 08:27:02 (permalink)

VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?)

"A friend" was wondering what the difference between these two synth types really was. He was hoping for some non-technical jargon that didn't mention the actual proprietors of the format but simply explained what the differences between these were. Obviously, I couldn't explain it in such layman terms so that he (or she) could understand so I think that "my friend" is still mystified as to why a plugin has to appear twice in his P5 instrument list...and which would be better to use and why?

I figured it would be beneficial to the new initiates here if someone could explain it to them...er...someone other than me, you know... I don't wanna bore you... and...um...my "friend" would appreciate it too!
#1

18 Replies Related Threads

    :10:
    Max Output Level: -38.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3678
    • Joined: 2004/10/24 21:31:38
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/11 08:39:39 (permalink)
    oooh...who's your friend DA? is she hot? got any pictures?...........

    yep...there goes this thread....

      
    #2
    Digital Aura
    Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5118
    • Joined: 2004/01/18 13:30:46
    • Location: Petrolia,Ontario ORIGINAL P5 FORUM JUNKIE
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/11 08:42:40 (permalink)
    *Sigh... thanks :10:
    #3
    rabeach
    Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2703
    • Joined: 2004/01/26 14:56:13
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/11 08:53:43 (permalink)
    there are always as many ways to do something as someone can think of. the method referred to as vst/vsti was developed by steinberg the one referred to as dx/dxi was developed by cakewalk. anything developed under these two different specifications will be as good as the programmer's capability in understanding and implementing the specification. generally with specifications one has more to offer one is easier to work with. guess which is which. :-)
    #4
    :10:
    Max Output Level: -38.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3678
    • Joined: 2004/10/24 21:31:38
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/11 08:57:18 (permalink)
    not sure if this would help? but it is kinda intresting.

    http://www.tweakheadz.com/software_plugins.htm

      
    #5
    wrench45us
    Max Output Level: -25.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4991
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 15:57:01
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/11 09:11:07 (permalink)

    Micrsoft has a standard DirectX interface for 'media' of all sorts, including sound. I think its up to verson 9. So Cakewalk has this prefernce for dealing with sound devices through the 'native' Windows' interface DirectX, instead of through the standard vst interface specification.

    i remeber more than once at early road shows hearing the Cakewalk reps indicate there were advantages to this, but I don't recall any details.

    it should be noted that any given host wraps or adapts sound devices in some way to inteact with their host program. Cakewealk chooses to wrap the vst in Microsft's DirectX interface.

    I don't know what's gone on with Sonar 5, but it sounds like the wrapper is now somehow attached or linked to the plug more directly so it's more portable. (that's a guess)
    And given that OSX is in th efuture the whole wrapping issue must be occupying a few brain cells at CW these days.


     


    #6
    MurderDethKill
    Max Output Level: -56 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1904
    • Joined: 2005/02/13 15:46:22
    • Location: Houston_we_have_a_Problem_here...
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/11 11:29:04 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: wrench45us


    Micrsoft has a standard DirectX interface for 'media' of all sorts, including sound. I think its up to verson 9. So Cakewalk has this preference for dealing with sound devices through the 'native' Windows' interface DirectX, instead of through the standard vst interface specification.

    i remeber more than once at early road shows hearing the Cakewalk reps indicate there were advantages to this, but I don't recall any details.

    it should be noted that any given host wraps or adapts sound devices in some way to inteact with their host program. Cakewealk chooses to wrap the vst in Microsft's DirectX interface.

    I don't know what's gone on with Sonar 5, but it sounds like the wrapper is now somehow attached or linked to the plug more directly so it's more portable. (that's a guess)
    And given that OSX is in the future the whole wrapping issue must be occupying a few brain cells at CW these days.


    ..and don't forget Longhorn/Vista's Win Fx

    ORIGINAL: Brad Abrams
    So what’s WinFX? Well, WinFX is an object-oriented API that leverages the .NET framework and exposes the breadth of Longhorn, the breadth of the operating system to developers.


    I believe the bakers have already stated that they are on top of this (i don't remember the exact post and I can't find the link for it...), so I'm guessing that since they're going to have to handle the updated MS-API they might as well deal with OSX/AU, no?

    My site i guess;)
    Monstruousubergeekyhardcorefunkytrancepolkaoptimism Lives!!!
    #7
    ZuN
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 622
    • Joined: 2004/04/01 11:57:50
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/11 11:46:39 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: MurderDethKill
    I believe the bakers have already stated that they are on top of this (i don't remember the exact post and I can't find the link for it...)


    yeah in this thread

    http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.asp?m=549434
    #8
    Digital Aura
    Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5118
    • Joined: 2004/01/18 13:30:46
    • Location: Petrolia,Ontario ORIGINAL P5 FORUM JUNKIE
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/11 11:47:18 (permalink)
    so should I tell my "friend" that zeta, sampletanks, etc should only need the DXi version installed and not both? He/she is sick of having two instruments with the same name showing up in his/her list of plugins.

    Will the DXi perform better with P5?

    Is there any benefits for latency, stability, etc?
    #9
    Andy C
    Max Output Level: -65 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1272
    • Joined: 2003/11/04 10:09:38
    • Location: Scotland
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/11 11:55:44 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Digital Aura

    so should I tell my "friend" that zeta, sampletanks, etc should only need the DXi version installed and not both? He/she is sick of having two instruments with the same name showing up in his/her list of plugins.

    Will the DXi perform better with P5?

    Is there any benefits for latency, stability, etc?



    DA,

    The probelm is it's all down to the way it's been coded. In reality there is no advantage to DXi over VSTi or the other way round. At the heart of it all they do is define an interface between the host and the DSP (the Digital signal processor at the heart of any synth/FX) So all the standards actually tell you is :

    How midi goes in/out
    How Audio goes in/out
    How GUI controls go in/out.


    The stability issues are all down to the programmers and how they interprest the specs of each of them. There should be no or little performance difference as long as the programmers know how to handle the specs right.

    So bottom line is some synths will be better in DXi and some in VSTi, it depends on the diligence and skill of the programmers (IMHO).

    Andy
    #10
    rabeach
    Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2703
    • Joined: 2004/01/26 14:56:13
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/11 12:54:12 (permalink)
    i always install both, but all my vsti are in a vsti main directory and all my vst are in a vst directory so the dx/dxi show up under the name of the synth or plug and the vst/vsti show up as the name of the synth or plug under the vst and vsti head directory. so when you go to insert a synth you just see the dxi synth names plus a directory called vsti that in drop down fashion holds all the vsti via the synth's name.
    my insert synth would look something like

    dr-008
    z3ta+
    psyn
    velocity
    vsti

    so the vsti version of z3ta+ would also be available in the drop down list under vsti by name e.g. z3ta+

    you hardly notice you have both versions. some dxi work better some vsti work better.

    #11
    Digital Aura
    Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5118
    • Joined: 2004/01/18 13:30:46
    • Location: Petrolia,Ontario ORIGINAL P5 FORUM JUNKIE
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/11 17:17:02 (permalink)
    good idea Robert...I may have to restructure. i just hate the thought of having everything in there twice. er.... I mean ... my friend does.
    #12
    xylyx
    Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2505
    • Joined: 2003/11/23 12:23:25
    • Location: England
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/11 17:27:09 (permalink)
    Does your friend also make Canadian Trance?
    #13
    b rock
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 8717
    • Joined: 2003/12/07 20:31:48
    • Location: Anytown (South of Miami), U.S.A.
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/11 18:32:02 (permalink)
    Does your 'friend' use automation? If so, you .... er, he/she might notice huge differences in how this is implemented in either version of the same synth, and the extent of controllable parameters.
    #14
    Digital Aura
    Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5118
    • Joined: 2004/01/18 13:30:46
    • Location: Petrolia,Ontario ORIGINAL P5 FORUM JUNKIE
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/11 18:56:46 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: xylyx

    Does your friend also make Canadian Trance?


    erm.... hmmmm...I plead the fifth...no wait...we don't have that here...

    Does your 'friend' use automation? If so, you .... er, he/she might notice huge differences in how this is implemented in either version of the same synth, and the extent of controllable parameters.

    OH NO...this is what I was afraid of... Tom, do you happen to remember specific examples of synths that behave differently? zeta or sampletanks?
    #15
    b rock
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 8717
    • Joined: 2003/12/07 20:31:48
    • Location: Anytown (South of Miami), U.S.A.
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/11 19:09:20 (permalink)
    Z3ta+ is a prime example, Greg. Use the VSTi. I'll have to check around to verify the other examples. Let's hope that Dimension Pro doesn't lean towards this.

    As an aside, Greg: Remember when I was going to do the whole Dimension Modulators thing? Way back: post-Katrina, but pre-Wilma.
    It's starting to develop as we speak in this thread. Thought you might be interested.
    Jeff's got some enthusiastic questioning going on. Sound familiar?
    post edited by b rock - 2005/11/11 19:10:04
    #16
    xylyx
    Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2505
    • Joined: 2003/11/23 12:23:25
    • Location: England
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/12 04:20:18 (permalink)
    I think Synth1 DXi doesn't show up as many parameters for automation...don't know how true this is, don't use it myself, but I am sure I read this somewhere around here.
    #17
    TheSteven
    Max Output Level: -55 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2037
    • Joined: 2005/03/05 01:17:06
    • Location: Southern California
    • Status: offline
    RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2005/11/15 23:01:52 (permalink)
    I hate learning by trial & error if it can be avoided.
    What would be great is if we had a table for P5 that listed modules and showed which mode (VST/DXi) had which benefits.

    The format could be something like this:
    Manufacturer/module/version/mode/benefit or problem/date reported/reported by

    fictitious example of report:
    Joe's Sound Shop | Screaming Axe Murder | v1.06.3 | VST | ignores automation | Nov 15, 2005 | TheSteven
    Joe's Sound Shop | Screaming Axe Murder | v1.05.0 | DXi |CPU usage much higher than VST | Nov 15, 2005 | TheSteven

    I think this would be a great addition to the WIKI.
    Any ideas?

    ...Steven

    "Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils" Loius-Hector Berlioz

    www.AgitatedState.com MenuMagic - plug-in management powertools!
    My Tunes
    #18
    sepulchre
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 22
    • Joined: 2008/02/24 21:26:29
    • Location: Anoka, IN (USA)
    • Status: offline
    Re: RE: VST vs. DXi (Can't we all just get along?) 2013/05/27 04:47:43 (permalink)
    Yeah, I'm about 8 years late but, Steven, that sure would be cool. I'm still looking for such an animal.

    Activax Amplification
    #19
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1