BbAltered
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VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
Hello. What is the difference between VST and VST3?
Some of my plug-ins (Z3TA+ and Rapture Sessions) appear in my Plugin Manager in both VST and VST3 versions. Which version should I use? Is there an advantage to using the VST3 version over the VST version? (I am thinking that once I figure out which version I will use, I will hide the other version.)
Thanks.
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Zargg
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/02 18:36:04
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Hi. I seem to remember reading that VST3 is less resource hungry. And has better coding, if I understand correctly. But that is where my (lack of) knowledge ends. Other will know better.
All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
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Zargg
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/02 18:38:41
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Ps. I use VST3 exclusively instead of the VST2 version. You can tell SONAR to exchange VST2 for VST3 if available under Preferences (P), Vst Settings.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
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davec69
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/02 20:52:41
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BbAltered
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/02 23:03:16
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Hello. Thanks Dave and Zargg for your helpful replies. So I will do a little reading on VST3.
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dcumpian
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 08:17:55
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The other difference is that VST3 will eventually replace VST2, so that's where you're going to want to invest. VST2 is on its way out. However, at this somewhat early stage, not every DAW is VST3-ready, and some that are still run into issues with VST3 plugins because the plugin developers are still learning. It is good to have both, for now, so if the VST3 doesn't work correctly, the VST2 may.
Regards,
Dan
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Sidroe
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 08:30:12
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☄ Helpfulby joden 2016/02/03 11:02:10
Some people have already started having problems with the Sampletank 3 VST 3 plug, or so I have heard. I know mine was kind of buggy so I switched over to the vst 2 version and never had a problem.
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bitflipper
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 09:01:35
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☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2016/02/03 09:17:04
VST3 plugins are not more efficient. In all likelihood you will experience exactly the same performance with either VST2 or VST3. Developers maintain a common code base for both, with 99.9% of the internal code being identical. The idea that VST3 is more efficient stems from its feature for shutting off a plugin when there is no data coming in. However, plugins have always had that ability if the developer chose to implement it.
VST2 is not going to stop working due to obsolescence. Some new products, in particular those from Steinberg/Yamaha, will only be available as VST3. But as long as the host supports the VST2 standard, your VST2 plugins will continue to work. Eventually, vendors may decide to stop developing new VST2 plugins just to simplify things for themselves. Eventually, VST3 may be the only choice for new products. But even then, your existing VST2 plugins will still work.
To answer the original question (what is the difference between VST and VST3?), they are two versions of a written specification describing how hosts (DAWs) and plugins (VSTs) communicate with one another. That's it. It does not dictate how plugins work internally.
VST3 does add some new capabilities, mostly relevant to soft synths, such as support for multiple MIDI ports that can be switched on the fly. There is a myth that only VST3 plugins can use external sidechains, but that only applies to Cubase users. We've been doing it in SONAR for more than a decade, long before the advent of VST3.
Being a new standard, many developers have hit snags while adapting to it. Consequently, many newly-reported bugs turn out to apply only to the VST3 version of a plugin. When that happens, you can simply revert to the VST2 version and carry on.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Sanderxpander
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 09:17:44
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Importantly, the automation menu in Sonar is much better organized for VST3s. You can find each parameter by category instead of long random lists of 128 parameters. That is, if the synth manufacturer took advantage of the categorization options.
post edited by Sanderxpander - 2016/02/03 09:31:16
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BbAltered
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 09:30:41
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Hello. Thanks guys, for the interesting and enlightening discussion.
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joden
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 10:49:25
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Sidroe
Some people have already started having problems with the Sampletank 3 VST 3 plug, or so I have heard. I know mine was kind of buggy so I switched over to the vst 2 version and never had a problem.
Agree totally !
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Shambler
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 11:06:54
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 11:11:12
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ston
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 11:29:25
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Steinbork shot the pooch, the fox, kicked them both into a tri-cornered cocked hat and then ended with a flourish of ballsing it right up when they came up with VST3. A nightmare for developers; badly designed, poorly architectured, and more prone to issues (i.e. than 2.4) due to this overly complex nature (both for host and plugin authors). You do get some fancy new bells and whistles, but really not much more than you can do with VST 2.4 already. For example, in 2.4 you might have dedicated mono- and stereo- plugins, but in 3, a single plugin can automagically configure itself depending on the nature of the channel it's dropped into. Not that much of a big deal and certainly not worth the considerable extra development overhead.
My VST3 folder is empty.
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Paul P
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 11:42:35
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And vst3's have to go to the C drive. What kind of an improvement was that.
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scook
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 11:57:29
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☄ Helpfulby stickman393 2018/04/19 03:37:43
It solves the "where is my dll" problem. A frequent subject posted here. Of course, the spec is just a recommendation about the location of the plug-ins. All Cakewalk DAWs which host VST3 will load them from anywhere and for those strictly interpreting the spec, there are directory junctions.
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ChristopherM
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 12:54:46
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Apart from the U-He health warning, the biggest practical issue that I have come across is that by default, preset formats are different between VST2 and VST3. So if you cut across to the VST3 version, because it's all shiny and new, you suddenly find that your extensive library of presets is junk. This seems to be the case with Voxengo, for instance. Where the vendor uses a proprietary format, they apparently can sidestep the problem: FabFilter for instance seems to use the same format of preset.
BTW, I was a little surprised to find that Rapture Pro has no VST2 and comes as VST3 only.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 12:57:36
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FabFilter and Waves VST3s are great, I use them all the time.
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pwalpwal
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 13:04:43
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U-He health warning was from 2013 ;-)
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ChristopherM
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 13:17:34
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... but as late as September 2015 the very same thread in which Urs 'fessed up his concerns was still active on U-He's own forum. As far as I know, Urs has still not given his VST3s a proper endorsement. I may be wrong about that. of course, because I don't slavishly follow the pronouncements of developers. 
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scook
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 13:26:05
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ChristopherM
BTW, I was a little surprised to find that Rapture Pro has no VST2 and comes as VST3 only.
RPro includes both VST2 and VST3 formats
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ChristopherM
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 14:55:52
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scook
RPro includes both VST2 and VST3 formats
... and I'm surprised to hear that, because I came to my conclusion when I realised that I couldn't find a VST2 version of it, and so I took a look at Cake's own Product page about it and saw there that it says "NOW AVAILABLE IN VST3 | AU | AAX" and nowhere on the site does it seem to mention any other flavour of VST. So I gave up looking for it. Although I am not doubting what you say, Steve.
post edited by ChristopherM - 2016/02/03 15:09:31
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scook
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 15:08:44
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I believe you may be looking at the Mac info, for details see http://www.cakewalk.com/P...re/System-RequirementsThe VST2 version is used by the stand alone minihost. The default path to both the dll and minihost is "C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Vstplugins\Rapture Pro" edit: fixed link
post edited by scook - 2016/02/04 04:19:22
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/03 16:52:49
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☄ Helpfulby pentimentosound 2016/02/05 08:47:45
Christopher, where are you looking for the VST2 version? If you're only looking in Sonar's media browser it might not be visible, depending on what you've got set here: 
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ChristopherM
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/04 03:52:41
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Steve: your link returns a colourful Page Not Found, but I had found the reference exclusively to VST3 simply by using the Products pull-down at the top of Cake's home page. I confess I didn't spend too much time researching it but just put 2 and 2 together and made 4 (or rather I couldn't see 2 at all but could see 3). I can see the dll lurking next to the mini-host now, but I am not seeing it in Plugin Manager, although it lies in one of my scan paths (along with umpteen other CW VST2s that are available). I don't have the time to delve deeper into this mystery today, regrettably.
Jonesy: I have left both of those boxes unchecked, because experience tells that typically any such glib automation methods often work fine most of the time, but when they occasionally get it wrong, the mess outweighs any advantage. Hmm ... sorry ... I must be in an atypically cynical frame of mind today: I'll be better after breakfast, I promise.
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scook
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/04 04:15:13
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/04 04:22:24
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ChristopherM
Jonesy: I have left both of those boxes unchecked, because experience tells that typically any such glib automation methods often work fine most of the time, but when they occasionally get it wrong, the mess outweighs any advantage. Hmm ... sorry ... I must be in an atypically cynical frame of mind today: I'll be better after breakfast, I promise.
No need for apologies, but it does explain why you are seeing both the VST2 & VST3 versions
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benjaminfrog
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/04 07:54:13
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It may also be worth noting that, unless a fix has gone in since the last time I checked, FX Chains do not play well with VST3 plugins.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/04 20:58:14
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VST3 and VST2 are different plugin authoring standards. Its really a misnomer that its called VST3 since its not even close to being the same thing as VST2.
VST3 has a more modern design for software development but it abandoned a few more traditional mechanisms for MIDI data. There is no notion of MIDI SYSEX or controller events in VST3 for example. Its replaced by generic parameters. There are a few new extensions in VST3 such as built in mechanism for having client server based plugins, and for multiple MIDI output ports.
For most practical purposes VST2 and VST3 plugins work and sound the same and almost all vendors have a lowest common denominator implementation of VST3. IOW only VST2 compatible capabilities are available for the vast majority of VST3 plugins.
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Paul P
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Re: VST vs. VST3 Plug-ins
2016/02/04 21:44:06
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
There are a few new extensions in VST3 such as built in mechanism for having client server based plugins, ...
That'll take us to a whole new level of having to be online and logged in.
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