Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 05:29:24
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I used to get the odd crash with V/V, back when I was running 6.2.1PE (6 was the version which introduced V/V by the way, not 5 or 7) But with 8 onwards, I've not experienced a single crash of any sort, and I must have made thousands of V/V clips & edits, all running live, no bouncing down. There are many precautionary steps you need to take before you invoke V-Vocal. I trsut you're familiar with them and follow them to the letter?
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Glyn Barnes
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 05:30:54
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bitflipper Well, after I was told the details, I understood their position better, which is that it was a very specific solution to one particular instance, and not only would it not work for everybody it wouldn't be their first choice of actions to recommend to others with similar symptoms. If you think of it in those terms, you can see where sometimes broadcasting a unique fix might just be opening a can of worms. I think this is very a valid point, In my day job organisation, I have a technical support role. The solution to many issues we publish in a knowledge database, but there are many others we do not publish. This occurs when the problem is thought to be specific to an isolated set of circumstances, or it involves too much risk and requires intervention by tech support if it is to be used. Of course on a peer to peer forum one can post solutions like "I put my finger in the fan, that finally stopped it going around." not realising the person you are answering has a 14 inch high power extractor fan, not the little plastic battery powered one you use. Corperations have to be much more careful.
post edited by Glyn Barnes - 2010/09/02 05:41:35
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progtronic
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 05:36:00
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yeah, I had my own problems with v-vocal as well. none of the solutions, or work flow tweaks others suggested worked for me. I discovered that if I delete one or more (sometimes all, it's totally random..) of the fx I've inserted, in any of the fx bins.. I can suddenly start creating v-vocal clips again, with no crashes. but if I start inserting fx after that point.. there's a good chance the crashes will start again. couldn't get anyone to help verify my findings by trying it out on their end though.. so who knows. now I pre-convert all the vocal bits I'm going to use for a remix, at the beginning of a project.. before I start inserting any fx. this solution isn't much help for anyone who records their own vocals though..
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Glyn Barnes
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 05:39:51
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glrecordings Or is that part of CW board policy that grammar and typos has to be pointed out and the submitter ridiculed and flogged? It is certainly a good way to make sure that non-english speaking people will think twice about helping out. But I guess it is their own fault for not speaking english. While I do not fully agree with your methods, I do agree with you on this. Your English very good for a non native speaker. Hell, I am a native speaker and I make my fair share of typos. Posts that are precived to be belligerent, however often provoke belligerent responses.
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Karyn
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 06:30:05
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ummm... Did you mean perceived ?
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Glyn Barnes
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 06:36:07
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Karyn ummm... Did you mean perceived ?  
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Sijel
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 10:16:56
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You are communicating far more clearly than most of the forum visitors could do in a 2nd or 3rd language. Just keep doing your best on communicating in English - if you're constructive in your thoughts and message, most of us can see past some bad grammar from time to time  . (Personally, I'm VERY critical of people in the US whose first language is English using incorrect grammar. IMHO, that's simply unacceptable. Now, for those Brits that think all Americans speak ungrammatically and have ruined the English language... get over it! LOL) Let's get this thread back to the ROOT CAUSE of your frustration... V-Vocal stability. All these side-threads spewing anger and "grammar tips" are just bringing out the ugly side of the forum. Have you (patiently) tried any of the workflow tips yet? I fully know how frustrating it can be with V-Vocal when you use it without a structured work process. Please try the workflow I mentioned. I'm interested in your feedback on what works. <editted to correct a missing article >
post edited by Sijel - 2010/09/02 10:26:15
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 11:44:53
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Actually, I did just that. V-V is my go-to pitch corrector 95% of the time. The ease at which you can rein-in intonation (akin to using percentage quantization for MIDI) is what sold me on Melodyne. You can tighten up vocal harmony (just a bit) so quick/easy...
post edited by Jim Roseberry - 2010/09/02 11:46:41
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 11:51:36
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Hell, I am a native speaker and I make my fair share of typos. What's even worse is when you type so much that your fingers start to have a mind of their own. ie: I'll mean to type "auto"... but my fingers are used to typing the word "audio"... so muscle memory takes over and out comes the word audio. 
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Sijel
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 12:06:00
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couldn't get anyone to help verify my findings by trying it out on their end though.. so who knows. I'll retry again over the weekend, but I'm positive that I've added FX after I've V-Ved some clips. For example, I usually correct the pitch first and then add VX64 to the track for dynamics and EQ processing. (No point adding FXs to bad notes, right?) BTW - I also realized last night that I do restart Sonar fairly regularly since my startup time for Sonar is about 7-8 seconds. My thesis is: V-Vocal has some serious memory leaks and pointer misallocations. Clearing the shell application (Sonar) can't hurt to clean-up things. BTW - I had similar crash behavior with AutoTune 4 back in the day. I've never bothered to upgrade since V-V seems to be working now. I've never tried Melodyne, but from all the forum posts here and in Melodyne, I don't think I'll gain much since I only make tiny corrections in pitch and/or vibrato. If I need more than that I re-cut the track or clip.
Microsoft Surface Book w/ Surface dock, dual 24-inch HD displays, Sonar Platinum, THD 4, GuitarRig, Amplitube, (Kontakt4), Garritan PO, Trillian Bass 1.3, Roland Octa-Capture, Waves Gold & various Waves, PSP and T-Racks plugins.KRK Rokit6, Lefty Guitars & Bass, racks/pedals galore and many other fun things.
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Sijel
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 12:09:55
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Which Melodyne product are you using for this? They've really confused their product marketing - I'd love to try Melodyne but I have no idea which SKU to put in the online-basket. And I just don't want to buy the $700 "Here, this does it all (maybe)!" suite to see if I get a value-add.
Microsoft Surface Book w/ Surface dock, dual 24-inch HD displays, Sonar Platinum, THD 4, GuitarRig, Amplitube, (Kontakt4), Garritan PO, Trillian Bass 1.3, Roland Octa-Capture, Waves Gold & various Waves, PSP and T-Racks plugins.KRK Rokit6, Lefty Guitars & Bass, racks/pedals galore and many other fun things.
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progtronic
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 12:23:21
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Sijel couldn't get anyone to help verify my findings by trying it out on their end though.. so who knows. I'll retry again over the weekend, but I'm positive that I've added FX after I've V-Ved some clips. For example, I usually correct the pitch first and then add VX64 to the track for dynamics and EQ processing. (No point adding FXs to bad notes, right?) actually.. that was directed at folks who already have a saved/crashing instance of sonar, when trying to create a v-vocal clip. if you know it's gonna crash when you try to convert something to a v-vocal clip, try deleting every effect from the fx bins (on every track and/or bus) first.. then see if you can convert, without it crashing.
post edited by progtronic - 2010/09/02 12:25:05
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glrecordings
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 17:06:57
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Sijel You are communicating far more clearly than most of the forum visitors could do in a 2nd or 3rd language. Just keep doing your best on communicating in English - if you're constructive in your thoughts and message, most of us can see past some bad grammar from time to time . (Personally, I'm VERY critical of people in the US whose first language is English using incorrect grammar. IMHO, that's simply unacceptable. Now, for those Brits that think all Americans speak ungrammatically and have ruined the English language... get over it! LOL) Let's get this thread back to the ROOT CAUSE of your frustration... V-Vocal stability. All these side-threads spewing anger and "grammar tips" are just bringing out the ugly side of the forum. Have you (patiently) tried any of the workflow tips yet? I fully know how frustrating it can be with V-Vocal when you use it without a structured work process. Please try the workflow I mentioned. I'm interested in your feedback on what works. <editted to correct a missing article > Thanks for your sanity. I guess I will give it a try - I have some projects to finish. I must admit it sounds rather cumbersome. I really do not think my expectations of 4-5th generation commercial sw working well are too high. And I don't think it too much to ask the manufacturer to handle the problem in a professional manner rather than provide instructions on how re-install 17 layers of badly managed versions and patches - and then have to manually clean the registry! Jeez! The really irritating part is that it works for a quite a while and then for no apparent reason pops up again after couple of weeks. The crash occurs not only when working with V-vocal clips. It can happen in the middle of playback or working with a plugin on a non-Vv track. However, it is the saem cronus.dll error. The only option is to re-install. Yes, I use an image restore program - but I do not think that is a reasonble solution. Why are they not asking for debug information, dump files, erros logs, provide debug versions and instructions on how to capture useful information? Instead CW is sweeping it under the rug by not acknowledging the problem and allowing freedom to share useful information....aarrggghh there goes my blood pressure again! (here are some commas for the grammar geeks to insert at will: ",,,,,,")
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Dave Modisette
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 18:02:00
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Why are they not asking for debug information, dump files, erros logs, provide debug versions and instructions on how to capture useful information? http://www.cakewalk.com/images/SONAR7/Campaign/S7_Vvocal_lowres.pdf Notice whose name is on V-Vocal. We've already learned that Bitbridge was outsourced and when problems popped up with Bitbridge 2, the fix was to buy another 3rd party bridging program. This is based on purely anecdotal speculation but the problem will likely have to be solved by Roland. V-Vocal is their baby.
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glrecordings
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 18:07:45
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Notice whose name is on V-Vocal. We've already learned that Bitbridge was outsourced and when problems popped up with Bitbridge 2, the fix was to buy another 3rd party bridging program. This is based on purely anecdotal speculation but the problem will likely have to be solved by Roland. V-Vocal is their baby. I bought my SW from Cakewalk - they are on point. No matter who owns Cakewalk and who wrote V-vocal.
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alexoosthoek
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 19:08:04
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It's not the end of the world, now is it? If V- Vocal isn't working?
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Bonzos Ghost
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/02 19:30:29
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alexoosthoek It's not the end of the world, now is it? If V- Vocal isn't working? No, it's not the end of the world, but the OP has a point. I got onto Melodyne prior to having V-Vocal as an option and liked it, so I've never bothered to try V-Vocal once I had it onboard. Obviously people do use it with success. It seems that it's best to load, apply correction, bounce & close from what I gather. (I still haven't used it, even though I'm on the latest version of Producer so I can't comment.) With V-Vocal being one of the built-in features that Sonar boasts though, I would think that it should be all but bullet proof by now. To me, a bundled feature included as a standard editing tool should work - period. I can understand the frustation that people have based on this fact.
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glrecordings
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/03 02:45:26
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alexoosthoek It's not the end of the world, now is it? If V- Vocal isn't working? It's not the end of the world, now is it? If V- Vocal isn't working? Wheeeeeew - thank you so much for your insightful post. I was so worried. I actually thought it was the end of the world as you can see in all my posts where I say "V-vocal is not working - it is the end of the world!!". It is because of people like you that we can carry on. I really admire the devotion and selflessness of people like you. Do you wake up every morning and think - "who can I save today? What can I post on the Cakewalk forum that will really move things forward?". Maybe you can post in every thread where somebody cares about something. Maybe they thought it was the end of the world? And there is a whole internet out there with lots fora about lots of things....- is it a bird, is it a plane - no it is alexoosthoek! We are saved! I hear they are looking for reporters at FOX news.
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glrecordings
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/03 02:46:30
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With V-Vocal being one of the built-in features that Sonar boasts though, I would think that it should be all but bullet proof by now. To me, a bundled feature included as a standard editing tool should work - period. I can understand the frustation that people have based on this fact. AMEN!
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/03 03:39:47
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Having always paid special attention to threads about pitch-correcting, my 2 cents is: These pitch correcting programs seem to be extremely sensitive. All of them. I suppose their task is so demanding that they are very picky about their "working ergonomy". Depending on the combination of hardware and software they're used with, they can turn very, very problematic in a million different ways (well...as if other programs couldn't..). A small difference in workflow or even too fast finger/mouse moves can make them seriously offended. They absolutely do not tolerate being pushed one millimetre too far. I've put these problems in my "Mystery"-file. I've worked with Melodyne Plugin and V-Vocal, and had success and failure with both of them.
SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre - Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc. The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
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Skyline_UK
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/03 03:54:15
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I've always used Melodyne plugin so I don't have first hand experience of the V Vocal issue, but having read the thread I have a couple of observations. There are two possibilities it seems to me: (1) Sonar software has a fundamental flaw which prevents V Vocal performing properly in all its aspects, ergo Cakewalk are at fault, especially as they must be aware of the problem(s) via tech support and this forum. or: (2) Sonar software is to all intents and purposes perfect, and the problems some people are having is entirely attributable to the thousands of different varieties of PC, components, and permutaions thereof that we use and one or more of those permutations interferes with the proper functioning of V Vocal. If it's (1) then I think it's remiss of Cakewalk not to respond to this thread with a 'mea culpa' plus explanation of the issues involved and intentions regarding a fix. Simple. This could at least prevent a lot of people here wasting angst and brain power unnecessarily. If it's (2) then I think it's remiss of Cakewalk not to respond to this thread explaining how their tests have shown it is not a program fault and some conjecture as to what PC setup vagary might be the culprit. Miscellaneous observation on software products in general (not Sonar): how come as consumers we have been conditioned to tolerate a level of flakiness in commercial software that we would never dream of tolerating in any other consumer product? When I buy a household item I don't buy it under the agreed proviso that it's a 'work in progress' so is bound to have things wrong with it which may or may not be fixed later on with the release of a better version? All commercial products should be fit for purpose. John
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scottfa
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/03 08:53:48
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I went through the phase of Sonar Producer early on in order to get synths, effects etc. After the dumping of effects, synths(Vsampler?) with every new version, I came to the realization that I should look at it differently. I have used Cakewalk since the DOS days, before audio! IMO Sonar 8.5.3 is a great application. Rock steady for me. Sure I would like workflow improvements(FX chains, improved MIDI learn etc) but I no longer expect Cakewalk to do all the other stuff. So, Melodye not V-Vocal, Kontakt 4 not Dimension Pro(even though I bought DP!). UAD for effects etc. These companies have to stand by their products and have often bent over backwards so that the products work in Sonar. Cakewalk just can't offer support to all of their product line, let alone all of the synths, effects etc. They just do not have the number of employees IMO. So instead of banging my head against the wall, I use Sonar studio, which Cake has to support, and other third party stuff. It works out well for me.
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TomG
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/03 09:23:23
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[ perspective ] " ....... the ability to perceive things in their actual interrelations or comparative importance ..... "
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alexoosthoek
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/03 10:12:35
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Bonzos Ghost alexoosthoek It's not the end of the world, now is it? If V- Vocal isn't working? No, it's not the end of the world, but the OP has a point. I got onto Melodyne prior to having V-Vocal as an option and liked it, so I've never bothered to try V-Vocal once I had it onboard. Obviously people do use it with success. It seems that it's best to load, apply correction, bounce & close from what I gather. (I still haven't used it, even though I'm on the latest version of Producer so I can't comment.) With V-Vocal being one of the built-in features that Sonar boasts though, I would think that it should be all but bullet proof by now. To me, a bundled feature included as a standard editing tool should work - period. I can understand the frustation that people have based on this fact. I agree with you he has a point and I hope he can get it to work. But I think writing " This is being sent to all magazines and websites in the industry. I will create a website dedicated to this particular problem and Cakewalk's unbelievable arrogance. I will post it when it is up and I urge all of you to post official and unofficial 'solutions' to this problem. If I get caught by Cakewalks Forum Police I will post it again. If they revoke my forum membership I will sign up again with different names" is not going to help solve the problem.
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brundlefly
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/03 11:12:29
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how come as consumers we have been conditioned to tolerate a level of flakiness in commercial software that we would never dream of tolerating in any other consumer product? When I buy a household item I don't buy it under the agreed proviso that it's a 'work in progress' so is bound to have things wrong with it which may or may not be fixed later on with the release of a better version? Name a household product that can perform thousands of different and totally unrelated functions out of the box, and is capable of performing an unlimited number of new functions simply by plugging in different modules supplied by thousands of other vendors. Household appliances are not remotely comparable to DAWs in their complexity.
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Dave Modisette
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/03 11:34:10
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glrecordings Notice whose name is on V-Vocal. We've already learned that Bitbridge was outsourced and when problems popped up with Bitbridge 2, the fix was to buy another 3rd party bridging program. This is based on purely anecdotal speculation but the problem will likely have to be solved by Roland. V-Vocal is their baby.
I bought my SW from Cakewalk - they are on point. No matter who owns Cakewalk and who wrote V-vocal. This is true. However, what should be and reality doesn't always intersect. Cakewalk should fix it but it will probably be a separate Roland team that will have to do it. The tail doesn't always wag the dog.
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Sijel
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/03 11:54:40
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I hear they are looking for reporters at FOX news. They have FOX News in Denmark? That's odd. In any case, Greg - you are spending a lot of time on this forum fueling your own anger and frustration. People are having fun or engaging in self-masochistic revelry by amplifying your frustration with seemingly cathartic outpours - but that's not getting your problem solved. Is it? May I suggest that you: Turn off the internet for a while, forget about these posting and relax yourself, fire up your Sonar and work patiently and methodically on the workflow we suggested for V-Vocal. Virtually everyone will benefit from that approach.
Microsoft Surface Book w/ Surface dock, dual 24-inch HD displays, Sonar Platinum, THD 4, GuitarRig, Amplitube, (Kontakt4), Garritan PO, Trillian Bass 1.3, Roland Octa-Capture, Waves Gold & various Waves, PSP and T-Racks plugins.KRK Rokit6, Lefty Guitars & Bass, racks/pedals galore and many other fun things.
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stratman70
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/03 15:14:01
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glrecordings rbowser "...there is numerous users..." Such confidence-inspiring English usage.---- Randy B. What is the purpose of posts like this in this particular forum? Do you get a sense superiority by pointing out mistakes like this? Does it make you feel good? Or is that part of CW board policy that grammar and typos has to be pointed out and the submitter ridiculed and flogged? It is certainly a good way to make sure that non-english speaking people will think twice about helping out. But I guess it is their own fault for not speaking english. As a matter of fact we should have our own board. Maybe we should wear a yellow star on our chest. He posted an apology before you posted this-so give it a rest.
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bitflipper
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/03 15:37:28
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I think this whole thread should be given a rest. We've already established the basic information: a few users experience crashes with V-Vocal and the majority do not. Leave Melodyne out of it, as it is irrelevant. Lighten up on the grammar policing. ("english" should be capitalized, btw :) CW support should have easily determined the cause of the crash from the crash dumps glrecording sent them (gl, you did send one, didn't you? They can't divine the answer from tea leaves, you know!). I'm guessing they know exactly what causes it and are waiting for a fix from Roland. Another possibility is that the crashes are the result of an interaction with some 3rd party component, in which case they may be very limited as to what actions they can take. What else really needs to be said about this topic?
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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BEATZM1D10T
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Re:V-Vocal cronus.dll CRASH - OPEN LETTER - I am not gonna take this s*** anymore.
2010/09/03 17:26:40
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glrecordings Maybe we should wear a yellow star on our chest. Please refrain from comparing your minor V-Vocal issues with the organized murder of 11-17 million Jews and other undesirables. You have absolutely no idea who reads these posts and it lends no credence to your argument and makes you look childish. I'm done with this thread.
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