V-drums and the hi-hat pedal

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NotASpeckOfCereal
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2015/03/14 14:34:07 (permalink)

V-drums and the hi-hat pedal

Hi all,
 
V-Drums pro TD-10 (but just for MIDI, I'm not using the brains sounds)
Sonar Platinum
Addictive Drums (but probably others later)
 
Question: I've done the drum mapping and mostly have the instruments like I want them, but the hi-hat functionality is funky. Specifically, there are various sounds for hi-hat open and closed, but I'm looking for that sweep between, the sound you get when you hit it and open it up with the sound gradually changing.
 
Is that just the pitfall of driving plug-ins? Because the TD-10 itself does it well, and those are ROM samples, right?
 
I'm guessing that it's in the MIDI CC codes, and I know where to find those pages in the manuals and can see them in the Event view when I record MIDI, I'm just am not sure how to drive the ADrums to get this same sound. Can I get a leg up?
 
Thanks, Chris
 
 
#1

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    stickman393
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    Re: V-drums and the hi-hat pedal 2015/03/14 15:04:46 (permalink)
    >> I've done the drum mapping and mostly have the instruments like I want them, but the hi-hat functionality is funky.
     
    Yes. I think this is because of the way Addictive Drums has implemented hi-hat control - it's different from the "Roland standard".
     
    I also have a Roland FP-8 (?) hihat pedal, and I gave up trying to capture a hihat performance when driving AD.
     
    That said, I love AD and I'm not really proficient at a drum kit style controller, so I'm content. Other E-Drum players should probably give you better advice about how to integrate with AD or what alternative works better.
    #2
    Rimshot
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    Re: V-drums and the hi-hat pedal 2015/03/14 17:05:46 (permalink)
    I got that sound with AD2 and adjusting the "Foot Splash Sensitivity" at Mapping/CC Hihat.
    This is when your foot hits the pedal full on to get the cymbals to hit together for that open sound.  
    It works great on my TD-6 Mapping. 
    Just play with the sensitivity tool in this area. 

    Rimshot 

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    #3
    lawajava
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    Re: V-drums and the hi-hat pedal 2015/03/14 21:28:22 (permalink)
    Rimshot
    I got that sound with AD2 and adjusting the "Foot Splash Sensitivity" at Mapping/CC Hihat.
    This is when your foot hits the pedal full on to get the cymbals to hit together for that open sound.  
    It works great on my TD-6 Mapping. 
    Just play with the sensitivity tool in this area. 


    Rimshot please explain more. For precisely the reason of the OP I've given up using AD2. I can get everything to work with AD2 to capture our Roland TD12 live performance tracking except the hihat foot pedal. I thought I had tried absolutely everything.

    I've played with the sensitivity adjustments for the hihat pedal plenty in AD2 with absolutely no luck. Where are you referring to?

    I should add that AD2 does not even capture the timing of the hihat. All of the other drum softsynths and drum modules capture the hihat performance perfectly, just not AD2. So I'm very interested.

    Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
    #4
    NotASpeckOfCereal
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    Re: V-drums and the hi-hat pedal 2015/03/15 14:26:49 (permalink)
    "This is when your foot hits the pedal full on to get the cymbals to hit together for that open sound."
     
    Rimshot, if by that you mean the sound that you get without using sticks, where you hit the pedal hard and let up for that open sound, that's not what I'm talking about.
     
    Imagine this sound, using sticks: Tch, Tch, Tch, Tchhhhhhh, Tch, Tch, Tch, Tchhhhhhh, Tch, Tch, Tch, Tchhhhhhh, 
     
    I'm talking about the sound that the high hats make between the 3rd "Tch" and the "Tchhhhhhh" (or starting with the closed hit for the start of the "Tchhhhhhh"), then the sweep before the hats are fully open.
     
    Example: the first 4 bars of Steely Dan's "I Got The News", the hi-hat sound on the 4 beat of each bar.
     
     

     
    NotASpeckOfCereal
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    #5
    NotASpeckOfCereal
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    Re: V-drums and the hi-hat pedal 2015/03/15 14:29:48 (permalink)
    lawajava,
     
    I do have a work-around in mind, but haven't tried it yet. Record the midi for all pads of your TD except the hi-hat, then send the TD hi-hat only to the audio outputs of your TD (I'm thinking outputs #3 or 4, but I'm not sure if your model has the 3 and 4 outputs for unprocessed sends).
     

     
    NotASpeckOfCereal
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    #6
    twaddle
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    Re: V-drums and the hi-hat pedal 2015/03/16 11:19:26 (permalink)
    I think what you're wanting is called, "variable hi-hat control"
    I don't know if Addictive drums has this or superior (it may go by another name) but BFD3 does and I have used it
    when programming in the piano roll and it does exactly as you describe going from closed to open hat quite seamlessly as a drummer would.
     
    Since you mentioned you might get others later now might be a good time to tell you that BFD3 is currently on sale as of today until April 16th for half price.
     
    Actually there are two versions, the boxed version which is on sale less 43% and the download version on sale less 50% so now might be a good time to visit the FXpansion Shop
     
    Steve

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    vintagevibe
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    Re: V-drums and the hi-hat pedal 2015/03/16 12:11:49 (permalink)
    You can do it with AD.  Make sure you are sending c.c. 04 and make sure you are using a variable HH in AD.  In the maps window there is section for setting up your HH.  
    #8
    lawajava
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    Re: V-drums and the hi-hat pedal 2015/03/16 20:00:04 (permalink)
    vintagevibe
    You can do it with AD.  Make sure you are sending c.c. 04 and make sure you are using a variable HH in AD.  In the maps window there is section for setting up your HH.  


    Already tried that with no improvement for our Roland TD-12 hi hat. I'm very open to suggestions. Would love to make it work. Timing for hi hat pedal is way off, even though for other softsynth drums it's right on. I'm frustrated but willing to keep going after a solution if there's something that breaks the roadblock issue. The kits sound awesome, just not the hi hat live performance recording timing.

    Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
    #9
    vintagevibe
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    Re: V-drums and the hi-hat pedal 2015/03/16 21:49:53 (permalink)
    lawajava
    vintagevibe
    You can do it with AD.  Make sure you are sending c.c. 04 and make sure you are using a variable HH in AD.  In the maps window there is section for setting up your HH.  


    Already tried that with no improvement for our Roland TD-12 hi hat. I'm very open to suggestions. Would love to make it work. Timing for hi hat pedal is way off, even though for other softsynth drums it's right on. I'm frustrated but willing to keep going after a solution if there's something that breaks the roadblock issue. The kits sound awesome, just not the hi hat live performance recording timing.


    I don't know about the TD-12 but I'm using a Roland HH pedal through an old SPD20 and it's working fine.
    #10
    SvenArne
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    Re: V-drums and the hi-hat pedal 2015/03/17 13:30:39 (permalink)
    I'm not quite sure if I understand which effect the OP is referring to, but in general I feel AD2 has the best hihat response of all the drumplers (with my Roland TD-4K pedal). The one I struggle with is BFD3.





    #11
    Billy86
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    Re: V-drums and the hi-hat pedal 2016/03/07 17:13:44 (permalink)
    Hi all. Would love to set up my Roland TDK 11kv pads to trigger corresponding AD2 kit pieces in Sonar Professional via MIDI.
     
    In searching the boards, I've learned the answer to my first question here, that being "Can the Roland pads be mapped to trigger AD2 sounds?" I see from the discussion that the answer is apparently yes, though there seems to be a hihat issue. To get started, can someone point me to a resource that explains how to map the roland to AD2. 
     
    Thanks!

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    #12
    Billy86
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    Re: V-drums and the hi-hat pedal 2016/03/07 17:26:37 (permalink)
    Doh! Disregard my post. I see that AD2 has built in map for Roland kits. Awesome!

    Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
    #13
    lawajava
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    Re: V-drums and the hi-hat pedal 2016/03/08 21:26:31 (permalink)
    Billy86
    Doh! Disregard my post. I see that AD2 has built in map for Roland kits. Awesome!


    That mapping never worked for my hi hat foot pedal. I switched to BFD3 and everything worked like a charm from the first attempt.

    I'm now waiting for the next version of Addictive Drums with the hope they add some improvements in.

    Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
    #14
    Billy86
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    Re: V-drums and the hi-hat pedal 2016/03/08 23:44:55 (permalink)
    Got the mapping figured out and the hihat seems to be responding okay. Dealing with a latency issue now. Play to Sonar's metronome and the drum sounds lag the pad strikes so everything is out of synch.

    Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
    #15
    ston
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    Re: V-drums and the hi-hat pedal 2016/03/09 06:04:43 (permalink)
    I have a Roland TD30.  In my experience, the built-in map in Addictive Drums for Roland V-Drums is not quite correct, but mostly so.
     
    I had to tweak the map to match the V-Drums.  Using this map, AD uses MIDI CC #4 as the HiHat control signal which is what is transmitted by the V-Drums; this information is used by AD to determine how open the hats are and thus what samples to play to represent the HiHats being that open/closed.
     
    I'll try to find out what tweaks I needed to make from the default V-Drum map in AD and if successful I'll update this thread.
     
    [edit] Just saw the note about latency, I am experiencing something similar; I get less latency monitoring the audio from the V-Drums (i.e. through the DAW!) compared to sending MIDI from the V-Drums and using that to control AD.  Which is plain daft.  I did have an idea to turn local OFF inside the V-Drums to see if that made any difference to the latency but haven't yet tried that.
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