jbow
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Velocity in MIDI??
I am watching the G3 videos and am on the MIDI editing part. It is talking about adjusting the note velocity, maybe it was explained and I missied it but I need a "for dummies" explaination not of what it does technically but what the result is. I looked in the X1 manual, page 222, and it explains that the velocity is "how fast the key was struck when the MIDI note was recorded". Does this have to do with how hard it was hit, meaning it is louder or is it a speed thing like the difference between SS and class A tube amps where the rectifier tube produces a "lag" and the SS is more immediate. So, I understand the explaination but I don't know wht the result will be for slower or faster velocity. I can make some assumptions but I learned to not assume things long ago, when I did, was wrong, and the boss told me that when I assume something, I make an "ass (out of ) u (and) me". So... thanks for helping a dummie! (kaint spel "dummy"... foniks wurked 4 me) Julien
post edited by jbow - 2011/04/27 17:37:19
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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garrigus
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 17:12:53
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dantarbill
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 17:13:21
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jbow I am watching the G3 videos and am on the MIDI editing part. It is talking about adjusting the note velocity, maybe it was explained and I missied it but I need a "for dummies" explaination not of what it does technically but what the result is. I looked in the X1 manual, page 222, and it explains that the velocity is "how fast the key was struck when the MIDI note was recorded". Does this have to do with how hard it was hit, meaning it is louder or is it a speed thing like the difference between SS and class A tube amps where the rectifier tube produces a "lag" and the SS is more immediate. So, I understand the explaination but I don't know wht the result will be for slower or faster velocity. I can make some assumptions but I learned to not assume things long ago, when I did, was wrong, and the boss told me that when I assume something, I make an "ass (out of ) u (and) me". So... thanks for helping a dummie! Julien MIDI note Velocity should be how hard you hit the key. Generally, MIDI instruments interpret that as more or less volume (in simple cases) or/also by opening up a filter to simulate a harder strike or selecting a different (velocity switched) sample to represent the more aggressive strike...or pretty much anything else that strikes the patch designer's whim.
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Bub
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 17:14:20
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I always understood Velocity to be how hard the key was struck. How fast you hit the key would be Attack wouldn't it? While we're on the subject, does anyone know what the controller is to pitch bend a note when not using the wheel on a midi controller? I'm trying to pitch bend a note manually in PRV. Thanks, Bub
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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John
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 17:18:47
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The result depends on the synth. Some synths don't respond to velocity. Most often a synth will use velocity to either use a different sample or add a different FX to the playback. This is done with layers. Many times it will make the playback louder. Velocity is a note attribute it is not a CC.
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dantarbill
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 17:19:12
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Bub I always understood Velocity to be how hard the key was struck. How fast you hit the key would be Attack wouldn't it? How hard and how fast are pretty much the same thing...until you reach the keybed. Then, if you keep on pressing...how hard you press now becomes aftertouch information.
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brundlefly
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 17:32:08
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Velocity is just as you would expect, the speed at which the key is traveling when it bottoms - or at whatever point in the stroke a given keyboard design measures it. The force that it takes to achieve that speed is different for different keyboards, but it's the speed that is measured, and transmitted as velocity. Some keyboards also generate aftertouch controllers based on key or channel (average of all keys) "pressure" (more correctly "force") applied to the key after it bottoms, but that has no effect on what velocity is sent with the note event. Attack time of the sound may or may not be affected by velocity. That's up to the synth engineer and patch programmer. As is whether the volume increase or the timbre changes. The MIDI spec does not dictate how an instrument should respond to velocity, but it's most common to get a loudness increase and a brighter timbre with increasing velocity, as is the case with most real-world instruments.
post edited by brundlefly - 2011/04/27 17:33:43
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jbow
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 17:49:11
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Lower velocity (when you hit a keyboard key softer) = lower volume (as well as change in tone or timbre). Higher velocity (when you hit a keyboard key harder) = higher volume Scott Now I feel really dumb... it seems so obvious now. laff, then again I am just a singer who plays guitar. Thanks, Julien
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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jbow
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 17:53:16
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Velocity is just as you would expect, the speed at which the key is traveling when it bottoms - or at whatever point in the stroke a given keyboard design measures it. The force that it takes to achieve that speed is different for different keyboards, but it's the speed that is measured, and transmitted as velocity. Some keyboards also generate aftertouch controllers based on key or channel (average of all keys) "pressure" (more correctly "force") applied to the key after it bottoms, but that has no effect on what velocity is sent with the note event. Attack time of the sound may or may not be affected by velocity. That's up to the synth engineer and patch programmer. As is whether the volume increase or the timbre changes. The MIDI spec does not dictate how an instrument should respond to velocity, but it's most common to get a loudness increase and a brighter timbre with increasing velocity, as is the case with most real-world instruments. So if I go into the piano roll view and I adjust the velocity to the max on all midi notes in a clip. it will sound like I am pounding the keys?? and if I back it way down it will sound like I am playing very softly, maybe muted or what? Does aftertouch have to do with sustain? BTW, Brundlefly. I lived in Manitou Springs for a few months in the early 70s, lived in Co Spgs on Wihemina ave or something like that before Manitou... great place, wild times (high times). I hitch hiked out there from GA and back. I assume it is sti nice out there. Thanks again. Julien
post edited by jbow - 2011/04/27 17:58:22
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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dantarbill
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 18:06:44
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Does aftertouch have to do with sustain?
No. It's a continuous controller message that (if implemented on the patch on your synth) would do something like simulate blowing harder on your horn or whatever. Sustain (at least in a piano/keyboard context) indicates that you are holding down the sustain pedal which prevents any currently held notes (NOTEONs without a subsequent NOTEOFF or NOTEON with zero velocity) from releasing until the sustain pedal is lifted (OFF). Someone will give a better explanation of this soon...if they haven't already.
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dantarbill
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 18:07:44
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So if I go into the piano roll view and I adjust the velocity to the max on all midi notes in a clip. it will sound like I am pounding the keys?? and if I back it way down it will sound like I am playing very softly, maybe muted or what? Yes
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rbowser
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 18:25:02
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Bub ...While we're on the subject, does anyone know what the controller is to pitch bend a note when not using the wheel on a midi controller? I'm trying to pitch bend a note manually in PRV. Thanks, Bub Your question was lost in the shuffle, Bub - In the PRV, go to where you add "New value type." In the pop-up, on the left, under "Type," choose Wheel. They mean the pitch bend wheel, not the mod wheel. In the control pane which is now for pitch bend, take a look - Zero is at the center of the pane, so you can draw going up or down. Be sure your snap to grid is off, and to hold Ctrl while drawing your curve - AH, actually in X1 you may not need Ctrl--not sure. You'll see once you're there. Randy B.
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brundlefly
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 18:38:19
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BTW, Brundlefly. I lived in Manitou Springs for a few months in the early 70s, lived in Co Spgs on Wihemina ave or something like that before Manitou... great place, wild times (high times). I hitch hiked out there from GA and back. I assume it is sti nice out there. Looks like your follow-up questions have been answered. The above is a funny coincidence, because I think the street you're thinking of is Willamette. Before moving to Manitou, I lived on the corner of Cedar and Willamette for 17 years, and I grew up at the other end of Willamette where it dead-ends into Monument Valley Park. In between, I did move around the country a bit, but never found a place I'd rather live. Do you remember what your cross-street was on Willamette? I probably know the house from all the years I walked up and down it.
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garrigus
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 18:46:19
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Hey Brundlefly... Not to hijack this thread, but did you want that account that you initiated over at the DigiFreq forums? It needs to be activated. Or should I just remove it? Did you receive the activation email? Thanks, Scott -- Scott R. Garrigus * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://www.garrigus.com/ * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://www.proaudiotutor.com/ * Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/ * Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/
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brundlefly
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 18:49:40
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Hey Brundlefly... Not to hijack this thread, but did you want that account that you initiated over at the DigiFreq forums? It needs to be activated. Or should I just remove it? Did you receive the activation email? Thanks, Scott Forgot all about it. I was just "slumming" when the forum was down. Was going to answer a question someone posed, but blew it off when I didn't get confirmation e-mail right away. I'll go ahead and activate it for future reference.
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garrigus
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 18:53:27
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brundlefly Forgot all about it. I was just "slumming" when the forum was down. Was going to answer a question someone posed, but blew it off when I didn't get confirmation e-mail right away. I'll go ahead and activate it for future reference. Okay, cool. Scott -- Scott R. Garrigus * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://www.garrigus.com/ * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://www.proaudiotutor.com/ * Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/ * Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/
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bmdaustin
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 19:15:31
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Re: Aftertouch - since you're a guitarist, think of aftertouch as what your left hand would do after you've plucked a string. While keeping your finger in place (to maintain the pitch and keep the note sustaining) you might create vibrato or bend the string. Aftertouch allows for that to happen in the synth keyboard world. After the note has been turned "on" with a Note On event and a velocity value of 1 or more, aka you press a key, you can further affect the note via aftertouch, assuming the synth patch responds to aftertouch. For example, a guitar patch would likely add vibrato or bend with aftertouch whereas a drum sample might not respond at all. Creative programmers can devise all manner of uses for aftertouch depending on the initial patch/sound they're working with.
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jbow
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 19:30:58
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No, I don't remember but I shared a basement apartment with Tom Duffy (Tom is half Japanese half caucasian) and a neighbor was Duane Freeman. Duane was an artist who worked with wood carving. I've often wondered what became of Tom. It was so long ago... it is almost like a dream. Another friend was Paul Willard. I don't know if any of those names ring a bell. Tom had a 1970 or 71 Charger... I was driving his Charger one night up a long hill near the HS with several tabs of "Purple microdot" in my head.. I kicked it, was flying up the hill and all the lights on the car went out, laff. IIRC, there was a long curve up near the top of the hill... but it was a long time ago. I'm lucky I didn't get in real trouble in Colorado... there was some of almost everything in the fridge... all of it illegal. I guess nearly 40 years later it is ok to mention it... I am happy to be alive and free!! I do remember the road or ave (Willimette, if that was it) didn't run into Co blvd but if it had continued on it would have crossed it. I guess it ran N/S and was out about halfway between downtown and Manitou Spgs. Edit: I looked at a map and I think this is where I lived. Well, that map link didn't work but it is, I think, Wilhemia Ave. It runs W. Uintah and N. 28th, it is close to Willimette. Julien
post edited by jbow - 2011/04/27 19:43:36
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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jbow
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 19:46:50
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Re: Aftertouch - since you're a guitarist, think of aftertouch as what your left hand would do after you've plucked a string. While keeping your finger in place (to maintain the pitch and keep the note sustaining) you might create vibrato or bend the string. Aftertouch allows for that to happen in the synth keyboard world. After the note has been turned "on" with a Note On event and a velocity value of 1 or more, aka you press a key, you can further affect the note via aftertouch, assuming the synth patch responds to aftertouch. For example, a guitar patch would likely add vibrato or bend with aftertouch whereas a drum sample might not respond at all. Creative programmers can devise all manner of uses for aftertouch depending on the initial patch/sound they're working with. Cool, thanks! Julien
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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dantarbill
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 19:58:24
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jbow ...Tom had a 1970 or 71 Charger... I was driving his Charger one night up a long hill near the HS with several tabs of "Purple microdot" in my head.. I kicked it, was flying up the hill and all the lights on the car went out, laff. IIRC, there was a long curve up near the top of the hill... but it was a long time ago. I'm lucky I didn't get in real trouble in Colorado... there was some of almost everything in the fridge... all of it illegal. I guess nearly 40 years later it is ok to mention it... I am happy to be alive and free!! I do remember the road or ave (Willimette, if that was it) didn't run into Co blvd but if it had continued on it would have crossed it. I guess it ran N/S and was out about halfway between downtown and Manitou Spgs. I've heard it said...if you say you can remember the 70's...you obviously didn't go through it yourself. (Large amounts of substances with three letter designators are like that...) (I don't remember where I heard that though...)
post edited by dantarbill - 2011/04/27 20:07:09
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lorneyb2
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 20:04:33
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jbow there was some of almost everything in the fridge... all of it illegal. I guess nearly 40 years later it is ok to mention it... I am happy to be alive and free!! Julien I would be worried if I were you. I am pretty sure there is no statute of limitation in Colorado for illegal fridge stuff. I suppose you could escape to Alaska to avoid having to deal with it. They could always use more music there.
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Bub
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 22:29:49
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rbowser Bub ...While we're on the subject, does anyone know what the controller is to pitch bend a note when not using the wheel on a midi controller? I'm trying to pitch bend a note manually in PRV. Thanks, Bub Your question was lost in the shuffle, Bub - In the PRV, go to where you add "New value type." In the pop-up, on the left, under "Type," choose Wheel. They mean the pitch bend wheel, not the mod wheel. In the control pane which is now for pitch bend, take a look - Zero is at the center of the pane, so you can draw going up or down. Be sure your snap to grid is off, and to hold Ctrl while drawing your curve - AH, actually in X1 you may not need Ctrl--not sure. You'll see once you're there. Randy B. Hi Randy, Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try tomorrow. Thanks, Bub
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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brundlefly
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/27 23:56:10
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jbow No, I don't remember but I shared a basement apartment with Tom Duffy (Tom is half Japanese half caucasian) and a neighbor was Duane Freeman. Duane was an artist who worked with wood carving. I've often wondered what became of Tom. It was so long ago... it is almost like a dream. Another friend was Paul Willard. I don't know if any of those names ring a bell. Tom had a 1970 or 71 Charger... I was driving his Charger one night up a long hill near the HS with several tabs of "Purple microdot" in my head.. I kicked it, was flying up the hill and all the lights on the car went out, laff. IIRC, there was a long curve up near the top of the hill... but it was a long time ago. I'm lucky I didn't get in real trouble in Colorado... there was some of almost everything in the fridge... all of it illegal. I guess nearly 40 years later it is ok to mention it... I am happy to be alive and free!! I do remember the road or ave (Willimette, if that was it) didn't run into Co blvd but if it had continued on it would have crossed it. I guess it ran N/S and was out about halfway between downtown and Manitou Spgs. Edit: I looked at a map and I think this is where I lived. Well, that map link didn't work but it is, I think, Wilhemia Ave. It runs W. Uintah and N. 28th, it is close to Willimette. Julien Wilhelmia. Okay, got it. I actually just noticed that street recently, since I frequently go back a forth across town on Uintah. It's only like a block long. The high school at the top of the long curving hill would probably be Coronado on top of the mesa at the intersection of Mesa Road and Fontmore/Fillmore, which isn't far from there. Ah, yes, Purple Microdot, Red Dragon, Window Pane... Those were the days, weren't they?.
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admagination
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Re:Velocity in MIDI??
2011/04/28 00:51:54
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Bub I always understood Velocity to be how hard the key was struck. How fast you hit the key would be Attack wouldn't it? While we're on the subject, does anyone know what the controller is to pitch bend a note when not using the wheel on a midi controller? I'm trying to pitch bend a note manually in PRV. Thanks, Bub Typically pitch bend was assigned to control 12, which was generically called "Effect 1" It remained somewhat undefined for the first generation of MIDI because it required a higher resolution than the typical 0-127. It is transmitted in a 14 bit word in order for it to gain over 16,000 variences of voltage control which is usually + / - 5 volts. In Sonar, it shows up in event as "wheel" which is indicative of it's somewhat elusive beginnings. As opposed to "Modulation" which requires less resolution so it can stay 0-127 and be fine. That standard being controller 1 which shows in the data area of events. But event does show the + 8,000 (or so) and -8,000 (or so) numbers which you can manually edit. But that's a lot of editing as opposed to lets say a simple velocity (0-127) edit. Might be worth just recording a real time pitch bend until you get what you want. So if you want to go total data, it would be controller 12 with a -8000 to +8000 controller range
"I once read that it takes 8 years for an oyster to make a pearl...somehow we are able to crap one out in a day"
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