Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken

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mdages
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2015/01/29 18:47:32 (permalink)

Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken

I've discovered some problems with video support in the new Sonar 2015 Platinum, version 21.00.01 Build 253 x64, which I've reported to support but also want to describe here in the forum.
 
I'm a film composer and work a lot with video material in DAW. In X3 Producer I got not bigger problems with video.
I want to continue some of my X3 projects in the new Sonar version, but when I start playback Sonar freezes completely for many seconds until the playback starts.
 
I've done some tests and could evaluate this problems regarding the "Tim In-Time" property. The larger value I set for "Trim In-Time" as longer Sonar freezes on every playback start.
For example I've project with a video in wmv with dimension of 640x480 and 12 minutes long. When I set Trim-In-Time to a value of 5 minutes and press playback from project start, Sonar freezes and waits about 13 seconds. It goes faster as I move the start locator to the end of the project. 
The same projects with same video loaded in Sonar X3 causes no problems, so it seems there must be something broken with video support in 2015 21.00.01.
I've tried different video formats, but always the same.
 
And that's not all. In X3 there was a "Render Quality" tab in the video properties on which I could set some properties for playback improvements like a Preview-Quality option. Also I could set an external DV-Output. In Sonar-2015 I miss all of them completely. I don't see the Render-Quality tab and no option for sync to an external output.
 
If this are bugs, then I hope Cakewalk will fix this very quickly.
 
_Markus

 
music is just a sequence of sounds...
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    Splat
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/10 13:20:57 (permalink)
    Could you please give us full steps to reproduce and a CWBRN number please. It needs to be validated in these forums in order to be moved forward. 
     
    Please make sure that one problem = one thread.
     
    Thanks...

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    Splat
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/12 14:16:08 (permalink)
    We've just had one logged here:
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/Sonar-X3-Video-trouble-during-countin-m3172255.aspx
     
    We really need one thread = one bug and full steps to reproduce from a new project, otherwise we may end up locking this thread or throwing this out to the Sonar forums.
     
    thanks..

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    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/12 14:27:23 (permalink)
    mdages
    I've discovered some problems with video support in the new Sonar 2015 Platinum, version 21.00.01 Build 253 x64, which I've reported to support but also want to describe here in the forum.
     
    I'm a film composer and work a lot with video material in DAW. In X3 Producer I got not bigger problems with video.
    I want to continue some of my X3 projects in the new Sonar version, but when I start playback Sonar freezes completely for many seconds until the playback starts.
     
    I've done some tests and could evaluate this problems regarding the "Tim In-Time" property. The larger value I set for "Trim In-Time" as longer Sonar freezes on every playback start.
    For example I've project with a video in wmv with dimension of 640x480 and 12 minutes long. When I set Trim-In-Time to a value of 5 minutes and press playback from project start, Sonar freezes and waits about 13 seconds. It goes faster as I move the start locator to the end of the project. 
    The same projects with same video loaded in Sonar X3 causes no problems, so it seems there must be something broken with video support in 2015 21.00.01.
    I've tried different video formats, but always the same.
     
    And that's not all. In X3 there was a "Render Quality" tab in the video properties on which I could set some properties for playback improvements like a Preview-Quality option. Also I could set an external DV-Output. In Sonar-2015 I miss all of them completely. I don't see the Render-Quality tab and no option for sync to an external output.
     
    If this are bugs, then I hope Cakewalk will fix this very quickly.
     
    _Markus




    Hi Marcus,
     
    The long time when setting a large trim-in time is due to some inefficiencies in Microsoft's Media Foundation. I will pass on this information to them.
     
    There are no changes to video performance in Platinum - are you running the project on the same system with Platinum and using the same video engine? SONAR supports the directshow engine as well as the Media Foundation engine. Regarding the render quality and external DV - that is only available in the Directshow engine. You will need to switch SONAR to that mode to use those features. See this link to learn how to switch the engine.
    Perhaps you were using the DirectShow engine in X3?

    Noel Borthwick
    Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
    My Blog, Twitter, BandLab Profile
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    Splat
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/12 14:33:53 (permalink)
    Thanks for posting Noel...

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    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    Splat
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/17 13:46:20 (permalink)
    Is this still an issue after Noels feedback?


    I may end up locking this thread otherwise (will give it a week) as we don't have much to go on.
    If there are any outstanding bugs it will be better you give us one thread per specific issue with full steps from a new project. That way if reproducible a CWBRN can be generated for each problem.
     
    Thanks

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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    mdages
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/19 20:59:14 (permalink)
    CakeAlexS
    We've just had one logged here:
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/Sonar-X3-Video-trouble-during-countin-m3172255.aspx
     
    We really need one thread = one bug and full steps to reproduce from a new project, otherwise we may end up locking this thread or throwing this out to the Sonar forums.
     
    thanks..




    my problem isn't related to Sonar X3, only to the new Sonar 2015. And it's not about any count-in as in the thread you quoted.
     
    I'd wrote this to support of Cakewalk, but I got no answer and no CWBRN number.
    To some of my support questions I got CWBRN numbers, and to some I got only automatic reply with case numbers.
     
    The steps are exactly as I wrote in the first post.
     
    1. Import a Video
    2. Set Trim-In Time
    3. Press Playback
     
    Depending on the length of the video and the trim-in-time, Sonar freezes as I press playback at the beginning of the project. A video with 12 minutes in complete length and trim-in time of 5 minutes causes a freezing of 13 seconds on every time I press playback or record.
     
    I could reproduce this with many different videos in wmv and avi.
     
    Doing exactly the same steps, with same videos on same PC in X3, no problems and playback starts immediately without any delay and without problems. So it's definitely not a problem to my pc or the video engine in windows, it's only in the new Sonar 2015 version.
     
    And further about the missing video settings in 2015.Here are some screenshots of the video properties in Sonar X3. As you can see there are 3 tabs. The third on is for setting some render quality parameters.


     
    And here the video properties in the new 2015 21.00.01 Platinum. As you can see, the third option tab is missing completely.

     
    regards
    Markus

     
    music is just a sequence of sounds...
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    mdages
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/19 21:16:09 (permalink)
    wtf, I wrote a larger post, preview it and after submit it was gone away. very frustrating.

     
    music is just a sequence of sounds...
    Sonar Platinum -> R.I.P (Shame on Gibson)
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    Focusrite Saffire Pro 24
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    mdages
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/19 21:18:40 (permalink)
    The problems I have are only related to the new Sonar 2015 21.00.01 and not in Sonar X3 on the same PC.
     
    The steps are:
    1. Import a video
    2. Setting a trim-in value
    3. Press Playback at the beginning of the project.
     
    Depending on the lenght of the video and the value of trim-in time, Sonar freezes for a moment. With a video of 12 minutes in lenght and trim-in time of 5 minutes, Sonar freezes about 13 seconds on every time I press playback.
    Tried this with different videos in wmv and avi format.
     
    Doing exactly the same steps, on same computer, with same videos in Sonar X3 there are no problems and playback always starts without any delay.
     
    So it's definitely not a problem with my computer or windows video engine, it's only related to the new Sonar 2015.
     
    Regards
    Markus
     
     
     

     
    music is just a sequence of sounds...
    Sonar Platinum -> R.I.P (Shame on Gibson)
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    mdages
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/19 21:20:48 (permalink)
    and here some screenshots from sonar 3 video properties:


     
    and here the video properties in Sonar 2015 21.00.01:

    As you can see, the third tab with the render quality settings are missing completely.
     
    Nothing changed to video in Sonar 2015?
     
    Markus
     

     
    music is just a sequence of sounds...
    Sonar Platinum -> R.I.P (Shame on Gibson)
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    scook
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/19 21:50:37 (permalink)
    It looks like the VideoEngine variable in AUD.ini was changed from the default value 1 to 0 in X3. This causes SONAR to use the old DirectShow engine engine. The new SONAR is running the default Media Foundation engine. The new media engine was introduced in X3d. In addition to the documentation, there are several articles about the change:
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013355/SONAR-X3d-Update
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013354/SONAR-X3d-Switching-between-Media-Foundation-and-DirectShow-Video-Engines
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013353/SONAR-X3d-Launch-Error-for-Missing-MF-dll
     
    #11
    scook
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/19 21:55:47 (permalink)
    mdages
    wtf, I wrote a larger post, preview it and after submit it was gone away. very frustrating.


    The posts were blocked by the automatic anti-spam software. Send a PM to a forum host with a link to the thread and the post will be restored
    post edited by scook - 2015/02/20 06:42:54
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    mdages
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/20 05:41:37 (permalink)
    @Scook
     
    I'll give this value in aud.ini a try and report results when I'm back in studio.
     
    regarding the forum message:
    I didn't see any message or notification from the forum software. Something went wrong when I put in picture links in my message. But I didn't see the reason. After submitting nothing appears, no message, no error, no post.
     

     
    music is just a sequence of sounds...
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    scook
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/20 06:40:39 (permalink)
    Yes, I forgot, the spam blocker just refuses to post the message or deletes after posting without notice. This usually happens when the spam blocker detects what it considers an issue with a link in a message. A PM to a host to get the message back.
    post edited by scook - 2015/02/20 07:48:39
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    mdages
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/20 07:25:04 (permalink)
    Thanks @scook .
     
    It seems that you're correct regarding the VideoEngine variable.
    In my Sonar X3 installation the value is 0 and in Sonar-2015 there is no such a value in the aud.ini.
    I've added:
     
    [Video]
    VideoEngine=0
     
    to the aud.ini of Sonar-2015 and now it works without delay on playback and all the options for setting render quality are back.
     
    Hmm, but this means to me, that the old DirectShow VideoEngine runs better and faster as the new one.
     
    Would be fine if Cakewalk could do further improvements for video support in upcoming updates.
     
    regards
    Markus

     
    music is just a sequence of sounds...
    Sonar Platinum -> R.I.P (Shame on Gibson)
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    #15
    scook
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/20 07:45:14 (permalink)
    Noel's most recent comments about video updates http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3145599
     
    #16
    Anderton
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/20 09:19:03 (permalink)
    There are something like 8 posts that the anti-spam filter nuked. I think they're all the same but am not sure. I can restore them if you can give me some guidance as to which of the eight need to be restored. 
     
    It's a bummer when this happens, but Akismet is pretty good about "learning." After I restore a couple of your posts, it will put you in the "good guy, don't hassle" part of its little brain.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #17
    scook
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    Re: Video support in Sonar 2015 21.00.01 seems broken 2015/02/20 09:50:58 (permalink)
    I restored the unique posts. Once restored, it was easy to see this was a configuration issue. X3 is set to the old video engine and the new SONAR was using the new engine. In this case SONAR needs to be set to the old video engine.
    #18
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