Virtual Drum Sets are all Backwards?

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soens
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2014/10/11 22:24:00 (permalink)

Virtual Drum Sets are all Backwards?

Is it just me, or has no one noticed that most of the drum synth kits are set up backwards?
 
The cymbals and toms are all panned as if you're sitting at the throne instead of in the audience (reverse of what they should be).
 
To me they should be panned to the audience as that's where the "listener" of the final production would be.
 
It's frustrating because I have to reset them all and save a preset every time I use them.
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    SvenArne
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    Re: Virtual Drum Sets are all Backwards? 2014/10/11 22:48:56 (permalink)
    I always mix drums "drummer's perspective". I just find it natural regarding how I "see" the drums in my head. No audience ever stood close enough to a drumkit to appreciate the stereo spread anyway, might as well mix it mono!





    #2
    Wookiee
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    Re: Virtual Drum Sets are all Backwards? 2014/10/12 04:49:32 (permalink)
    I look at it this way do I want, from the audience perspective, a left handed or right handed drummer performing on this piece.  I understand Sven-Arne point of view but I agree with Soens question/point.  
     
    I have raised this before and was told you do not pan a piano/keyboard from right to left i.e. bass on the right to treble on the left which is true as most people understand or have a perception of how sound spreads across a piano.  
    But when viewing a band on stage they have visual feedback as well as aural, if the drummer was a right handed drummer and proceeded to do a run around his kit from audience right to audience left and the kit is miked and panned they would expect the sound to go from right to left.  However most drum sample kits would have the sound pan left to right from the audiences view.  Fortunately Superior drummer, which I use when I use drums, has an instant pan reversal switch.  Not really played with Addictive or Session drummer.

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    #3
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Virtual Drum Sets are all Backwards? 2014/10/12 08:41:57 (permalink)
    I too, pan as if it were my band on stage, including the drummer, with panning from the audience perspective - with the only difference being that the sequenced drums play in time.  (couldn't resist hee hee).
     
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    SvenArne
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    Re: Virtual Drum Sets are all Backwards? 2014/10/12 10:20:44 (permalink)
    Good points Wookiee!

    This got me wondering: Do you guys actually envision a band playing on stage when listening to an album? I don't think I ever do! I get lots of mental images when listening to music, but no concerts (unless I'm listening to a live album).

    Regarding the listening experiece, I don't think it ultimately matters to me which way the panning goes. But being sort of a drummer, the throne perspective feels intuitive to set up when micing acoustic drums.





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    Wookiee
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    Re: Virtual Drum Sets are all Backwards? 2014/10/12 14:12:14 (permalink)
    SvenArne
    Good points Wookiee!

    This got me wondering: Do you guys actually envision a band playing on stage when listening to an album? I don't think I ever do! I get lots of mental images when listening to music, but no concerts (unless I'm listening to a live album).

    Regarding the listening experience, I don't think it ultimately matters to me which way the panning goes. But being sort of a drummer, the throne perspective feels intuitive to set up when miking acoustic drums.

    With that in mind, think when you are on stage how much it would screw with you brain if you do a break around your kit and the PA played it the completely opposite way.
     
    i.e. you sit facing the audience as a right, for the sake of this point, handed drummer you do a simple run first rack tom to last floor tom and you hear to your stage right, Audience stage left, hi tom and then the run travel across the stage to your stage left the audience stage right.  It would blow my furry mind, which actually is not that hard to do .

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    #6
    soens
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    Re: Virtual Drum Sets are all Backwards? 2014/10/12 22:44:23 (permalink)
    It is not a reeelly big deal but a "reverse pan" switch would be nice.
     
    And to make things more fun, SI Drums (Cakewalk's Own) takes it one step further. After reversing all the pans within the kit, I can play the kit within SI Drums (with the mouse) and hear the panning where I set it. However, upon playing the same kit with the associated MIDI track, the panning falls back to default (backwards).
     
    That Should Not Be Happening!
     
     Oh well.
    #7
    scook
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    Re: Virtual Drum Sets are all Backwards? 2014/10/12 22:55:08 (permalink)
    With a synth like SI Drums which is stereo out, wouldn't is be easier to drop Channel Tools on the audio track and swap channels?
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    RobertB
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    Re: Virtual Drum Sets are all Backwards? 2014/10/13 00:35:49 (permalink)
    My take on it is this:
    The virtual drums are intended to be used/played by you, as the performer. So that perspective would make the most sense. The audience isn't playing the drums, you are.
    After the fact, it's not terribly difficult to flip the panning around.
    For me, if my snare and hi-hat is on the left, but I hear it on the right while I am playing, it really messes me up.

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    TomHelvey
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    Re: Virtual Drum Sets are all Backwards? 2014/10/18 14:36:10 (permalink)
    I usually bounce each drum to a mono track and deal with things like panning, effects, and EQ in the mix.
    It doesn't really matter where the plugin wants to pan them.

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    soens
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    Re: Virtual Drum Sets are all Backwards? 2014/11/15 05:31:26 (permalink)
    scook
    With a synth like SI Drums which is stereo out, wouldn't is be easier to drop Channel Tools on the audio track and swap channels?



    That would work. Perhaps freezing and phase inverting the track would work too. Just one more step to remember.
    #11
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