Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune

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leemac
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2017/07/20 19:50:15 (permalink)

Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune

As the title says, only recently my virtual instrument synths are going out of tune quite often. It wouldn't be so bad if they all went out of tune together :).
 
At first it seemed like it was only Native Instruments virtual synths, but its also happening in Cakewalk TTS-1.
 
I checked within the Events to see if there was some errant pitch bend or portamento events that were causing sticking, but it happens within midi tracks without any of those events.
 
After performing further checks, I have two systems and the fault only happens on one of the DAW's.
 
Is there perhaps some kind of initialization I can run to reset things? Or if anyone has any suggestions and could be so kind to share them.
 
Kind Regards
Lee 
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18 Replies Related Threads

    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2017/07/20 21:09:54 (permalink)
    Do you have any controllers hooked up that might send pitch or modulation information?
    #2
    leemac
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2017/07/20 21:36:13 (permalink)
    Hi & thanks for the reply.
     
    No, thats the funny thing, the only thing I have is an Alesis Q61 hooked up by USB, so unless thats malfunctioning.
    Tomorrow I'll disconnect that when the problem appears and see what happens.
     
    Regards
    #3
    bitflipper
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2017/07/20 22:10:35 (permalink)
    I've seen a pitch wheel be out of calibration, causing it to not be zeroed when released. You can check for this quickly by recording some pitch wheel movements and examining in the PRV to make sure the last value is zero after you'd released it.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #4
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2017/07/20 22:25:37 (permalink)
    I have had crappy pots on midi controllers start generating spurious midi data that would cause pitch changes, so once determining which one was causing it, I disabled pitch bend entirely on that controller.  Over time, some cheaper components used to keep manufacturing costs down just randomly start failing.
     
    I also have had pitch issues on certain synth presets, such as with some Reaktor ensembles, where the zero all controllers setting in Sonar Preferences was ending up setting pitch down by a whole step, until I removed the check from that parameter.
     
    Hope you find the demons causing your tuning issues.
     
    Bob Bone
     

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    #5
    Fabio Rubato
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2017/07/21 05:22:55 (permalink)
    I've had this as an on-going issue with Native Maschine. I'm finding that the pitch of the various expansion samples arbitrarily drop around a 3rd periodically...and then jump back up at random times in playback of the track...that's in Sonar. I've only had this happen with Maschine, so I don't know whether this is related to your issue.
     
    I've had several chats with their tech support to no avail, short of sending the actual Maschine project. They wanted me to use Midi-Ox to check out whether there was data coming from my Kontrol S88 but there was nothing registered to indicate this. 
     
    They've just released an update for Maschine so I'll be testing it to see whether this is still occurring.

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    #6
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2017/07/21 07:58:36 (permalink)
    I have similar issues with a bunch of freeware vsti's from DSK

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    #7
    leemac
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2017/07/21 08:45:31 (permalink)
    bitflipper
    I've seen a pitch wheel be out of calibration, causing it to not be zeroed when released. You can check for this quickly by recording some pitch wheel movements and examining in the PRV to make sure the last value is zero after you'd released it.


    robert_e_bone
    I have had crappy pots on midi controllers start generating spurious midi data that would cause pitch changes, so once determining which one was causing it, I disabled pitch bend entirely on that controller.  Over time, some cheaper components used to keep manufacturing costs down just randomly start failing.
     
    I also have had pitch issues on certain synth presets, such as with some Reaktor ensembles, where the zero all controllers setting in Sonar Preferences was ending up setting pitch down by a whole step, until I removed the check from that parameter.
     
    Hope you find the demons causing your tuning issues.
     
    Bob Bone
     





    Ok, as 'bitflipper' suggested, I recorded some pitch wheel and modulation changes into a track and they both appeared to be returning to zero/center OK.
     
    However, as I was writing this forum message I noticed a kind of 'spiking' on the input of the midi tracks to which my Q61 was connected, so Im wondering if perhaps this would be enough to cause the pitch changes and problems described earlier.
    Fabio Rubato
    I've had this as an on-going issue with Native Maschine. I'm finding that the pitch of the various expansion samples arbitrarily drop around a 3rd periodically...and then jump back up at random times in playback of the track...that's in Sonar. I've only had this happen with Maschine, so I don't know whether this is related to your issue.
     
    I've had several chats with their tech support to no avail, short of sending the actual Maschine project. They wanted me to use Midi-Ox to check out whether there was data coming from my Kontrol S88 but there was nothing registered to indicate this. 
     
    They've just released an update for Maschine so I'll be testing it to see whether this is still occurring.




    As much as I love the sounds of the Native Instruments, Ive always found them to be awkward and give me headaches and problems with their workings over the years.
     
    Ill investigate further and report back. Thanks to everyone for chiming in.
    Cheers
    Lee
    #8
    Aimman
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2017/07/21 10:23:14 (permalink)
    I have issues recently with Arturia V vst synths doing strange thingg, particularly if I took the laptop away from the studio and back again (midi ports were getting mixed up and confused because the midi USB interface would be disconnected.) Back in the studio, sometimes I'd then find midi tracks had three midi in inputs assigned to them and the vsts were getting invisible controller messages. I would recommend checking the midi input settings for the midi tracks driving the vst devices and perhaps temporarily switching off the midi in port on the track (not in the global properties section)to see if it problem is isolated
    #9
    Glyn Barnes
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2017/07/21 20:53:09 (permalink)
    After recording MIDI look at the event list and see if there are any spurious records. My old A-PRO 800 started generating spurious cc messages (dirty pots ??) These could cause all sorts of issues depending on the VSTi.

    Deleting the cc records would correct the issue but ultimately I had to replace the controller.

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    #10
    tlw
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2017/07/21 21:43:42 (permalink)
    Another way to check the controller side of things is to use MIDIoX to keep an eye on what it's sending, if anything. Filtering out all data except pitch bend, mod wheel and CCs/sysex should keep the amount of data churning across the screen managable.

    If the controller is sending erratic CCs it might not be pitch bend, it might be e.g. a CC that alters oscillator pitch/tuning.

    One thing's pretty certain, Sonar isn't generating random MIDI messages and sending them to tracks.

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    #11
    Toddskins
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2018/03/31 08:48:01 (permalink)
    HELP!  2 Problems with my DX synths!
     
    My Dx instruments are out tune and distorted and I cannot get them to sound like the preset they are supposed to sound like.  This does not happen on the VST2 instruments.  

    My TTS-1 and Roland Groove Synth, sound horrible, right from the start.  Like the oscillators are garbled and not even close to being in tune with one another.  When I change Presets on the TTS-1, I can tell it's loading a different sound, but it's still miserably distorted.  When I move my MIDI Controller to the Laptop loaded identically, the sounds are fine.  I move it back to the Desktop PC, and reboot, and restart Sonar, and the sounds load "out of tune" and not resembling the presets (i.e. piano, or Square wave).

    I immediately load Addictive Keys Piano, and it's fine.  Or U-he Repro-5 synth, and it's fine.
     
    It makes me think that the Samples for TTS-1 and Roland Groove Synth, got mangled during installation, but I know that's not right.  I compare the files with those on the Laptop, and they are identical.
     
    Something weird is affecting my DX instruments.
     
     
    Next, on both my desktop and Laptop, the DX Pentagon I synth cannot load because I'm told it "May have failed installation".  On both machines??? And when I search my drives, the folders, DLL, and presets exist.
     
    Anybody?
     
    Windows 7 Pro 64-bit
    Sonar X3 Producer


    EDIT: Searching the forums, I found the registry hack fix to get PENTAGON I working.

    I still need an answer regarding TTS-1 and Roland Groove Synth for loading sounds way out of tune and not resembling the instrument preset they are supposed to be.
    post edited by Toddskins - 2018/03/31 09:18:49
    #12
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2018/03/31 16:24:49 (permalink)
    @Leemac - Those spikes you saw sound similar to what I was experiencing with my M-Audio Axiom 61 Pro midi controller.  While the wheel itself was indeed at zero, the CIRCUITRY connected to it was auto-generating random pitch wheel midi data, so while my projects would be idle, I would see midi activity that was indeed coming from that controller, and it was pitch wheel data.  I ultimately decided to disable pitch bend functionality on the midi controller itself, since I have 3 other midi controllers hooked up that all have pitch bend wheels too, so I don't have to deal with the issue anymore.
     
    Hope that helps, 
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
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    #13
    Larry Jones
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2018/04/02 06:20:16 (permalink)
    Toddskins
    HELP!  2 Problems with my DX synths!
     
    My Dx instruments are out tune and distorted and I cannot get them to sound like the preset they are supposed to sound like.  This does not happen on the VST2 instruments.  

    My TTS-1 and Roland Groove Synth, sound horrible, right from the start.  Like the oscillators are garbled and not even close to being in tune with one another.  When I change Presets on the TTS-1, I can tell it's loading a different sound, but it's still miserably distorted.  
    ***************************SNIP*************************


    Have you changed the default sample rate in SONAR recently? TTS-1 will do this at rates above, I believe, 48khz. Maybe Groove Synth does, too. There's a setting in TTS-1 to correct the problem, but it's not saved with the project, so you have to reset it every time you open the project, on every instance of the synth. Try this:
    1. Open TTS-1.
    2. Click 'System'.
    3. Click 'Options'.
    4. Click the 'Options' tab.
    5. Enable 'Light Load Mode'.
     
    Or just reduce your sample rate to 44.1. If that doesn't solve your problem, you should start a new thread with your question. Give it a clear title and you'll get more help from people who know a lot more than I do.

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    #14
    haitiabsolut
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2018/08/08 01:50:44 (permalink)
    The problem I have been having with Cakewalk Sonar Platinum Version 23.10.0 Build 14 [2017.10] 64 bit Edition is this:
     
    Everything starts up just fine and loads correctly. I start off with a blank Cakewalk Project. I add a instrument (VST) track and load Maschine 2.x into it. I then load a .mxprj (Maschine's file extension) file into the VST. After the file loads and displays the contents, I set the various sound's output channels. I then create the amount of Audio tracks needed to record the output of the Maschine's sound independently. After all those are set, I disable the loop feature on the Maschine and then arm the tracks for recording in Cakewalk. Once I start the recording process, I notice that some of the sounds loaded into Maschine play out of tune. I also noticed that clicking on the rewind button during playback also causes some of Maschine's loaded sounds to play out of tune.  This is driving me nuts. Any help is greatly appreciated.
     
    Here are my PC Specs:


    Microsoft Windows 10 Pro Version 10.0.17134 Build 17134
    Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6600 CPU @ 3.30GHz, 3301 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
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    Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 32.0 GB
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    Audio Interface:
     
    M-Audio Profire 2626
    64 bit drivers installed
     
     
    #15
    fantini
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2018/08/08 04:48:12 (permalink)
    I've had the pitch problem with various synths over the last couple of years or so.  I disabled the pitch wheel in preferences/midi/playback and recording. That seemed to cure my problems. Of course, I can't use the pitch wheel now in situations where I might need it.  OK for the moment anyway.
    #16
    pwalpwal
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2018/08/08 09:15:29 (permalink)
    haitiabsolut
    The problem I have been having with Cakewalk Sonar Platinum Version 23.10.0 Build 14 [2017.10] 64 bit Edition is this:
     
    Everything starts up just fine and loads correctly. I start off with a blank Cakewalk Project. I add a instrument (VST) track and load Maschine 2.x into it. I then load a .mxprj (Maschine's file extension) file into the VST. After the file loads and displays the contents, I set the various sound's output channels. I then create the amount of Audio tracks needed to record the output of the Maschine's sound independently. After all those are set, I disable the loop feature on the Maschine and then arm the tracks for recording in Cakewalk. Once I start the recording process, I notice that some of the sounds loaded into Maschine play out of tune. I also noticed that clicking on the rewind button during playback also causes some of Maschine's loaded sounds to play out of tune.  This is driving me nuts. Any help is greatly appreciated.
     
    Here are my PC Specs:


    Microsoft Windows 10 Pro Version 10.0.17134 Build 17134
    Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6600 CPU @ 3.30GHz, 3301 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
    BIOS Version/Date American Megatrends Inc. 1203, 10/22/2015
    Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 32.0 GB
    2x 256Gig SSD
    1x 1TB HDD
     
    Audio Interface:
     
    M-Audio Profire 2626
    64 bit drivers installed
     
     


    lots of users seem to have struggled with using maschine vst in sonar, maybe one of those threads has your solution, i googled it for you: https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&ei=xrNqW6GgG4vOwALQlJ3ICg&q=Maschine+site%3Aforum.cakewalk.com&oq=Maschine+site%3Aforum.cakewalk.com&gs_l=psy-ab.3...1344.6240.0.7168.24.23.0.0.0.0.442.2542.15j4j4-2.21.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..3.4.1042...0j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1.0.Fs0no_Hf50c

    just a sec

    #17
    Piotr
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2018/08/09 09:06:28 (permalink)
    I had similar issue with OTS songwriter library. I tried to include bg strumming guitars with it but it was out tune and unusable. Not sure for 100% but I think I have not any MIDI controller connected when trying it.

    Regards,
    Piotr
    Sonar Platinum Lifetime
    #18
    mickytee50
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    Re: Virtual Instruments Going Out Of Tune 2018/11/22 21:11:34 (permalink)
    i'm having the same issue, but with reveal sound splice vst, as soon as the song loads and i play it everythings okay, but usually the 2nd time it plays at 7 semitones out.
    i can change the semitone tuning on both splice and cakewalk, but it doesn't kind of solve the problem as such!
    #19
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