VocalSync to tighten up sloppy playing :O

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Loptec
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2015/01/15 05:26:44 (permalink)

VocalSync to tighten up sloppy playing :O

I just realized that it will be possible to fix sloppy bass, guitar (and whatever) playing with VocalSync.. :O
 
By just creating a midi track (with software instrument) and playing the part "as it should be" and then freezing the synth it should be possible to use this as a guide track for VocalSync!! :D
 
I'm SOO looking forward to start playing with the new toys!! :D

SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM

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    tKx5050
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    Re: VocalSync to tighten up sloppy playing :O 2015/01/15 11:44:01 (permalink)
    I was thinking the same thing but Noel posted somewhere, that for right now, it's optimized for vocal range. Hopefully they will continue development to make it more general purpose. Would love to be able to tighten up harmony guitar leads for example.

    Steve
     
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    #2
    stevec
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    Re: VocalSync to tighten up sloppy playing :O 2015/01/15 13:12:24 (permalink)
    I like...   and will try it anyway just because.    
     

    SteveC
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    #3
    tKx5050
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    Re: VocalSync to tighten up sloppy playing :O 2015/01/15 13:15:58 (permalink)
    Yeah, Craig also posted that he is putting Vocalsync through it's paces to see what other uses he comes up with. If anyone can discover unexpected benefits it would be Mr. Anderton.

    Steve
     
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    SilkTone
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    Re: VocalSync to tighten up sloppy playing :O 2015/01/15 13:32:09 (permalink)
    You can already do the same thing with Melodyne (or AudioSnap?). I have Melodyne Editor (so it supports polyphonic material), and I've used it more than once to move or to stretch a single 12 string acoustic guitar note that had a small timing issue. It is amazing that you can move or stretch just a single note in a sea of overlapping notes (which includes all their harmonics as individual blobs).
     
    But to tweak the overall timing of a performance, VocalSync would probably be useful. Maybe given that people might eventually use it for more than just vocals, it should have been called AudioSync or something else more generic?
    #5
    konradh
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    Re: VocalSync to tighten up sloppy playing :O 2015/01/15 13:44:12 (permalink)
    This will be a lifesaver for me on vocals.  I sometimes do 12 to 24 backing vocals and alignment is very hard.  In fact, I was about to spend $300 on Vocalign.
     
    If this will work but still allow a slight variation. it will be awesome.
     
    And you idea is great, by the way.

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    #6
    tKx5050
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    Re: VocalSync to tighten up sloppy playing :O 2015/01/15 13:50:34 (permalink)
    Since it is a region-effect I'm assuming it's using ARA, which would kind of make it the quick/ez version of a Melodyne /AudioSnap mashup. I believe Noel posted that AudioSync was just developed in the last couple of months so will be interesting to see where they take the feature set.

    Steve
     
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    #7
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re: VocalSync to tighten up sloppy playing :O 2015/01/15 15:31:07 (permalink)
    VocalSync doesn't use ARA, rather it uses our region FX framework which is what ARA is built upon.
    VocalSync, ARA and the old VVocal all use this and the upcoming drum replacer also works as a region effect.
    We've been building a lot of stuff upon this.

    Noel Borthwick
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    #8
    stickman393
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    Re: VocalSync to tighten up sloppy playing :O 2015/01/15 15:46:28 (permalink)
    I'm looking forward to exercising V-Vocal in the new SONAR! RegionFX's are great.
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    Beepster
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    Re: VocalSync to tighten up sloppy playing :O 2015/01/15 15:52:28 (permalink)
    SilkTone
    You can already do the same thing with Melodyne (or AudioSnap?). I have Melodyne Editor (so it supports polyphonic material), and I've used it more than once to move or to stretch a single 12 string acoustic guitar note that had a small timing issue. It is amazing that you can move or stretch just a single note in a sea of overlapping notes (which includes all their harmonics as individual blobs).
     
    But to tweak the overall timing of a performance, VocalSync would probably be useful. Maybe given that people might eventually use it for more than just vocals, it should have been called AudioSync or something else more generic?




    This seems to be more of a convenience tool. As you said Melodyne would work as would Audiosnap but would be more work. In melodyne to tighten two chord parts you would even need the polyphony. Just the timing stuff to move the blobs closer on the timeline.
     
    The nice thing about the VAlign seems to be how simple and quick it is to use and I do certainly hope it will work well for guitars. The fact it is variable and a region FX too is great because even though one might want to tighten guitar tracks together you don't want them TOO tight for some stuff thus losing the fullness produced by two distinct performances.
     
    If it ISN'T honed all that great for guits hopefully they'll release another version or a preset more suited for such tasks. It would be immensely useful to me personally. Something I'm currently working on would benefit greatly. There are spots where I am playing single note riffs where I want those notes on the layer tracks to be as tight as possible but then there are chunky chord parts that sound better with a bit of wobble. I'd apply it the effect to different degrees to the different areas. Currently I do a pile of takes and then match the best because that's easier (for me but I'm a good player and a sucky engineer) than fiddling with timing correction stuff in Melodyne or AS.
     
    However for the stated/dedicated purpose of vocal correction it would still be invaluable because my mics are all kind of crap so to get a good sound I have to mix and match with multiple takes using the various mics. It makes it very difficult to make that sound like ONE track so this could help with that.
    #10
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: VocalSync to tighten up sloppy playing :O 2015/01/15 16:19:58 (permalink)
    Personally I'm a little surprised and annoyed that these (VocalSync, Melodyne and Audiosnap) are all separate tools. I see much more value in a single integrated solution that allows you to specify the source material. Full Melodyne is so close already but it's hard syncing up the timelines between it and Sonar's. There needs to be a better visual check of what's happening - the VocalSync view looks perfect! But now I'm using VocalSync to align vocals, then bounce, then use Melodyne to pitch, then bounce, then perhaps check a word against a drum hit timing and use AudioSnap? It doesn't make sense to me.
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    Beepster
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    Re: VocalSync to tighten up sloppy playing :O 2015/01/15 17:24:46 (permalink)
    Sanderxpander
    Personally I'm a little surprised and annoyed that these (VocalSync, Melodyne and Audiosnap) are all separate tools. I see much more value in a single integrated solution that allows you to specify the source material. Full Melodyne is so close already but it's hard syncing up the timelines between it and Sonar's. There needs to be a better visual check of what's happening - the VocalSync view looks perfect! But now I'm using VocalSync to align vocals, then bounce, then use Melodyne to pitch, then bounce, then perhaps check a word against a drum hit timing and use AudioSnap? It doesn't make sense to me.



    What may end up happening is they'll use the VAlign template to start introducing those types of quickfix options. From the way the Bakers are talking they've just set the stage with a lot of the new stuff from X3 and now the new Sonar as a platform to add more functionality. Like the engines are there, they just need to attach it to everything so it works.
     
    That's just my impression though.
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    rontarrant
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    Re: VocalSync to tighten up sloppy playing :O 2015/01/15 20:15:05 (permalink)
    tKx5050
    I was thinking the same thing but Noel posted somewhere, that for right now, it's optimized for vocal range. Hopefully they will continue development to make it more general purpose. Would love to be able to tighten up harmony guitar leads for example.


    Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it covers the complete vocal range from bass to soprano, wouldn't it cover almost every note on a guitar as well? If it's optimized for voice, there's only one note (low E) that isn't covered. And frankly, I think the bakers would have done a bit of overlap, just to be sure.
     
    So, what you have in mind should be possible.
     
    I found this chart which shows how the ranges of various instruments, including voice, overlap: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/...uitar+range+music1.gif

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    #13
    Loptec
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    Re: VocalSync to tighten up sloppy playing :O 2015/01/16 05:07:18 (permalink)
    konradh
    This will be a lifesaver for me on vocals. I sometimes do 12 to 24 backing vocals and alignment is very hard. In fact, I was about to spend $300 on Vocalign.

    If this will work but still allow a slight variation. it will be awesome.

    And you idea is great, by the way.

     
    Yeah! I've been thinking about getting Vocalign as well... The news about VocalSync just made me crazy-happy!
    Thanks! :)
     
    stevec
    I like... and will try it anyway just because.

     
    Same here!! =)
     
    tKx5050
    Yeah, Craig also posted that he is putting Vocalsync through it's paces to see what other uses he comes up with. If anyone can discover unexpected benefits it would be Mr. Anderton.

     
    You mean we should just sit around and wait for Craig to come up with new uses of things and have all the fun while doing it? Naa, that's just not me.

    SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM

    DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90
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    #14
    Loptec
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    Re: VocalSync to tighten up sloppy playing :O 2015/01/16 05:11:36 (permalink)
    rontarrant
    tKx5050
    I was thinking the same thing but Noel posted somewhere, that for right now, it's optimized for vocal range. Hopefully they will continue development to make it more general purpose. Would love to be able to tighten up harmony guitar leads for example.


    Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it covers the complete vocal range from bass to soprano, wouldn't it cover almost every note on a guitar as well? If it's optimized for voice, there's only one note (low E) that isn't covered. And frankly, I think the bakers would have done a bit of overlap, just to be sure.
     
    So, what you have in mind should be possible.
     
    I found this chart which shows how the ranges of various instruments, including voice, overlap: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/...uitar+range+music1.gif




    Yeah I also think this will be possible.
    Especially if you, for example, have a sloppy bass line and you can find a MIDI-sound that reminds a lot of the recorded track. As long as the character of the frozen MIDI-instrument is similar enough to the recorded performance I think this will work nicely. :) Can't wait to try it out though! :)

    SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM

    DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90
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