jimmerlox
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Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
I just upgraded to producer, and now am having trouble getting vocal tracks to playback with any sort of gain. They record with PLENTY, and the waveforms look substantial (even overly hot) when looking at the track, but on playback they peak at about -27 on the console view. I am not running and effects of any vocal channels and all other tracks have plenty of gain and headroom. Vocal going in HOT, but playback like a mouse. Any help would be appreciated.
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tunekicker
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Re:Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
2012/04/07 15:05:05
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In any case I would check where the output of your tracks is going and the gain/fader levels of whatever buss they are going through as well. To further diagnose, try inserting a Synth like Session Drummer 3 and play a loop through it. Is it also really quiet? If your soundcard has its own mixer like my FireFace 800 be sure to check that too!
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
2012/04/07 15:08:25
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Yeah best bet is to check the routing and the levels of what it is routed to including any external mixer or the master on the console view mixer in sonar, any busses, etc. Lance
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
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John
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Re:Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
2012/04/07 15:57:28
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Jim has the waveform changed in the drawing in the track from what you saw as you were recording?
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SH
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Re:Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
2012/04/07 22:04:45
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
2012/04/08 01:51:28
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Alarm bells ringing....Offset mode? Check you haven't a some point put it into offset mode and reduced the faders or perhaps just the master buss fader. Press 'O' to toggle, you can tell you're in offset by the + sign beside the volume pan etc. Any changes you make will stick but not show when you exit offset mode.
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jimmerlox
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Re:Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
2012/04/08 02:02:25
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John, The wave form seems to be reduced when I stop recording, but is clearly overdriven from the settings I'm using on the preamp and hear in the headphone monitors (trying to get SOME volume). Biker, I checked offset (I didn't know that existed and wonder why it does!), but that wasn't the issue. And SH, outside of boating, I have no idea what "trim" is, but gain is at zero the fader just distorts a weak signal when pushed. It looks like others are having the same issue on this board. Noobs! Thanks for the help, guys. I'll keep screwing with it.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
2012/04/08 02:13:41
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'Trim' is referred to as "gain" within X1. It's available on the track header view. (Make sure your widget settings are on 'All') Offset exists to change the overall setting of a track with envelopes on it, although in X1 it's now easier to use the envelope itself. If you have a good strong signal recorded there must be something pulling it down. Check your track output is going straight to your master buss. If it goes somewhere else check the fader on that buss and also to see if there's some sort of processing happening on that buss. When you play the project back what maximum peak level do you see? You can see that info in the CV toward the bottom of the fader. It'll continue to display that after playback stops.
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jimmerlox
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Re:Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
2012/04/08 02:31:37
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Oh great.. now envelopes! I am SO over my head! I can push the fader to peak out the track in the red, but it is a distorted mess. I keep the trim at zero, as it too only distorts the weak signal. As I said, never had this problem in Sonar studio. I am not rerouting the signal to other busses (got rid of vocal busses thinking they were at fault), and have the same results going straight to master buss. It is not a hardware problem. Sheesh. Bad purchase?
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
2012/04/08 02:36:58
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I can assure you if this was/is an X1 issue this forum would be close to explosion with rage. Don't worry about envelopes at this stage, you haven't got one active if you can change the fader. I'm now thinking that perhaps you have the prochannel turned on on that track and the compressor is bringing the level down. Check that isn't the issue. When you say "weak signal" you are presumably referring to the level of the volume as opposed to the level that the track was recorded at. Those are two different issues. Are you sure the recorded levels are healthy.
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jimmerlox
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Re:Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
2012/04/08 02:54:20
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Actually, the signal is VERY strong (pushing too mush to compensate). Somehow, when Sonar processes it, it comes out quiet as a mouse, and sounding compressed as hell. No shimmer or sparkle at all that I hear in the headphones. I did open a prochannel on it later, but ended up deleting the whole track as I could not figure out how to undo the prochannel add; only was able to shut it all off. My plan, with my limited knowledge in this stuff, is to run all the fine sounding tracks I laid down through one buss, then devote another buss just to the lead vocals (the backing vocals sound great, but were done pre-producer upgrade). That should give me some separation to diagnose WTF is going on. Does that sound reasonable?
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
2012/04/08 03:06:27
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That may help but if everything is already going through one & only one buss the problem must be on the track somewhere. In the TV you get the PC to the fore by first making sure the inspector is visible. Press 'I'. Then if the PC isn't already visible press 'Ctrl + I' to show/hide it. At the very top of the PC there is an on/off button that shows blue when the PC is active. Try turning that off. That will bypass all the individual modules even though their individual on/off state doesn't change. From the "sounding compressed as hell" it sounds to me like you have one of the PC compressors active and squeezing the level down without the make up gain adjustment.
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jimmerlox
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Re:Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
2012/04/08 03:25:51
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Thank you so much! I will give it a shot. If nothing else, I'll a great tune with plenty of space to hum ones own melody to. HA!
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
2012/04/08 03:33:52
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Another thing just worth checking is the actual level recorded. The wave form can "Look as hot as hell" but it is possible to scale the view of it, so it could appear to look "hot" but in fact be quite low. Maximise the track by double clicking in a free area of the TV header and then have a look at the scale on the track header/clip pane divider to get a better idea of actual levels.
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
2012/04/08 03:44:14
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That is strange, if ONLy vocals behave like that. SONAR does not know if the audio is vocal or drums or a truck driving by. Audio is audio. So, if there are no FX involved, all audio tracks should have problems. What kind of microphone and soundcard you're using ? Please, describe your gear, record settings and signal routing in detail.
SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre - Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc. The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
2012/04/08 03:49:44
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SONAR does not know if the audio is vocal or drums or a truck driving by. Audio is audio. That's a very good point.....
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SH
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Re:Vocals have no gain despite hot input.
2012/04/08 07:56:55
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FastBikerBoy The wave form can "Look as hot as hell" but it is possible to scale the view of it... Assuming the clip is as hot as you think, try creating a new audio track, direct to the master, and drag the clip to that track.
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