Vocals on right side after export

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glover54
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2007/11/21 19:45:29 (permalink)

Vocals on right side after export

2 audio tracks, 8 midi tracks.
Midi and audio playback sounds both sides.
After export to mp3 and playback on another computer speakers, midi sounds on both side but audio is only on right

Any ideas?

SONAR 5
REASON 3
Delta 44 M-Audio
XENYX 802 Mixer
Rokit 5 speakers
#1

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    CJaysMusic
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/21 19:55:16 (permalink)
    did you check the pans on the tracks that are to the right???. Its a good idea on telling us what you did so far to troubleshoot it or youll get the most abvious remarks first
    Cj

    www.audio-mastering-mixing.com - A Professional Worldwide Audio Mixing & Mastering Studio, Providing Online And Attended Sessions. We also do TV commercials, Radio spots & spoken word books
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    #2
    glover54
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/21 20:01:59 (permalink)
    This might be my not undestanding, but I did move the pan. before expoting to mp3, I moved the pan to he right, and the vocals cut out. When moved pan to center, they came back. Unfortauntely I do not know enough to try and trobleshoot. So I am not sure what to try next.
    #3
    andretfernandes
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/22 07:08:35 (permalink)
    Well, first of all, I have to tell you that sonar 5 is the "buggest" version of all. Crazy things happened to me until I changed to sonar 6.
    Now, try to change the last icon in the bottom of your track (below input/output). The icon is a speaker (when mono) and two speakers facing opposite sides (when stereo). Maybe it helps.
    #4
    glover54
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/22 07:18:40 (permalink)
    I tried changing that. It was already set as double speaker (stereo). But just in case I changed to mono and then back to speaker to see if it might reset something.

    Does anyone think that it might be an issue not on playback but on recording as mono?
    #5
    CJaysMusic
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/22 07:31:13 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: glover54

    This might be my not undestanding, but I did move the pan. before expoting to mp3, I moved the pan to he right, and the vocals cut out. When moved pan to center, they came back. Unfortauntely I do not know enough to try and trobleshoot. So I am not sure what to try next.

    If you move the pan to the right the vocals cut out. so this means you recorded the vocals on just one side then. You may have recorded the vocals with the wrong pan settings in the first place. its hard to say. i would definitly read up on mixing and recording techniques so you can have an idea on what your doing when recording. This isnt a sonar problem per say, but its just your unexperienced and your going to need to get your feet wet with alot of reading and practicing different techiniques. Good luck
    Cj

    www.audio-mastering-mixing.com - A Professional Worldwide Audio Mixing & Mastering Studio, Providing Online And Attended Sessions. We also do TV commercials, Radio spots & spoken word books
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    #6
    jimack
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/22 07:37:33 (permalink)
    It sounds like you may have recorded a mono signal vocals to a stereo track. Although I can't really understand why you would get this result. You might want to try Bouncing your stereo vocal track and select 'split mono' as the output option. That will give you two mono tracks from your one stereo track. You might be able to look at the waveforms of each mono track and figure out what's going on. If you only get a waveform on one of the mono tracks, you can use that for your export.

    -- Jim

    _____________________
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    #7
    glover54
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/22 09:55:19 (permalink)
    This is the hardware flow

    Here is the IN
    Shure mic to Studio Projects VTB1 "Mic IN" (Three prong, not sure what the name of the connector is)
    VTB1 TRS "Line OUT" to M-Audio 44 Line IN 1
    M-Audio 44 to Computer card
    Record to cakewalk

    Here is the OUT
    Computer to M-Audio 44
    M-Audio Line OUT 1 and 2 (TRS) to XENYX 802 mixer Line IN 1 and 2
    XENYX 802 mixer Main Out (TRS) to Rokit5 speakers (2 of them)
    #8
    glover54
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/22 10:03:47 (permalink)
    I took some snapshots but could not seem to upload in the forum post
    I did place them on a website I manage.
    Hopefully these might help

    Looking at this, should I not be able to see two audio images if it was recording stereo? This makes me think it is definately recording mono since the top has a audio image but the bottom does not.
    http://www.ebiz-marketing.com/images/cw1.jpg

    These three are the m-audio settings
    http://www.ebiz-marketing.com/images/cw_maudio1.jpg
    http://www.ebiz-marketing.com/images/cw_maudio2.jpg
    http://www.ebiz-marketing.com/images/cw_maudio3.jpg

    These four are the Cakewalk audio settings
    http://www.ebiz-marketing.com/images/cw_audio_options1.jpg
    http://www.ebiz-marketing.com/images/cw_audio_options2.jpg
    http://www.ebiz-marketing.com/images/cw_audio_options3.jpg
    http://www.ebiz-marketing.com/images/cw_audio_options4.jpg



    #9
    glover54
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/22 10:06:26 (permalink)
    Looking at the image
    http://www.ebiz-marketing.com/images/cw_maudio1.jpg
    I did try the Stereo link but that did not produce stereo. Only one side of the bars would move.
    It certainly appears m-audio is recording mono (one side) so cakewalk is recording mono (one side)

    I tried to record with the pan center, left, right. I either received no input or only one side.
    #10
    glover54
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/22 19:01:08 (permalink)
    I created a new song. Audio only. Just speaking. No matter what changes I make to the m-audio settings, or the cakewalk pan, ins, outs, it is still the same thing. One side mono.
    #11
    daveny5
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/22 22:08:06 (permalink)
    A microphone is a mono source so record it on a mono track and then you can pan it anyway you want. To record it on a mono track, select a mono input on your soundcard, i.e., M-Audio L or M-Audio 1.

    Dave
    Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F
    Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX
    Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic.
    Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. 
    Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
    #12
    glover54
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/23 07:01:48 (permalink)
    OK, so it is recording as mono. But the pan does not seem to provide the effect one would assume. As I mentioned, I moved the pan to the right, the vocals cut out, when I move the pan to center, they come back.
    From what I have read, I should be able to move the pan to shift the sound from one side to another. It is not doing this.
    #13
    mudgel
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/23 07:08:39 (permalink)
    Its probably cutting out because of how you're monitoring. Perhaps you don't have a right side output sent to your moniotrs.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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    #14
    jimack
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/23 07:18:32 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: glover54

    OK, so it is recording as mono. But the pan does not seem to provide the effect one would assume. As I mentioned, I moved the pan to the right, the vocals cut out, when I move the pan to center, they come back.
    From what I have read, I should be able to move the pan to shift the sound from one side to another. It is not doing this.


    That's because you're recording a mono signal to a stereo track. When you setup the track to record you have to click the little widget to make the track mono. The very first image you posted confirms this.

    Since it's already recorded, the way around it it to do what I told you to do in my above post. Bounce the track selecting 'split mono' as the output option, that will give you two mono tracks. Then you can simply delete the track that has a flat waveform. You'll then be left with your wave data on a mono track and you'll be able to pan it appropriately.

    Edit --> the mono/stereo widget is the little button that looks like a 'bowtie'. When it's mono it will look like 1/2 a bowtie.
    post edited by jimack - 2007/11/23 07:25:11

    -- Jim

    _____________________
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    #15
    CJaysMusic
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/23 07:25:24 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: glover54

    OK, so it is recording as mono. But the pan does not seem to provide the effect one would assume. As I mentioned, I moved the pan to the right, the vocals cut out, when I move the pan to center, they come back.
    From what I have read, I should be able to move the pan to shift the sound from one side to another. It is not doing this.

    what is yout input sourse?? mono left, mono right, stereo??? how about going over everything in detail on how your recording this and dont leave out nothing.
    Cj

    www.audio-mastering-mixing.com - A Professional Worldwide Audio Mixing & Mastering Studio, Providing Online And Attended Sessions. We also do TV commercials, Radio spots & spoken word books
    Audio Blog
    #16
    glover54
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/23 08:06:25 (permalink)
    Jim
    After your post I did try exporting to split mono but got very weird results. One time both files contained just drums, and I did not have any mute or solo enabled. Another time it had just vocals.

    I tried it again and it did work, one file contained just midi, the other midi and vocals.
    But I assume this is a work-around and not the best practice?
    #17
    glover54
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/23 08:09:45 (permalink)
    CJ
    Great idea
    I will create a new song, create a few measures of some midi and vocals. I will write down step by step what I do and see if the forum experts can figure out what I am doing wrong. I do assume it is me.
    I really do appreciate everyone's efforts.... and especially patience..
    #18
    jimack
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/23 08:11:31 (permalink)
    You don't have to export.

    You simply select the track in question (according to your screen shot it would be 'track 1 - audio 1') and then select 'edit - bounce to track'. When the bounce to track dialogue box comes up, specify 'split mono' in the output. This will create two new mono tracks for you. One will have the waveform in it, one will be just flat. You can delete the one that's just flat if you wish. The one with the waveform in it will play back properly and pan properly.


    -- Jim

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    #19
    Frank Haas
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/23 08:34:48 (permalink)
    I love this kind of troubleshooting..

    do you only have these problems on the other computersystem ?
    what happens when you playback on your own machine through sonar?
    Does anyone think that it might be an issue not on playback but on recording as mono?

    absolutely!
    You should record the vocals in MONO!!!
    I see on your 1st screenshot that you chose "STEREO M-Audio Delta.." - that's your 1st mistake !
    you could
    a.) bounce this stereotrack to two mono tracks and delete the original + the empty track (right chanel)
    b.) press the "mono" button (over the M S R Buttons), if I remember you should now be able to pan the vocals in the stereo field.. but you cant use stereoeffects on that track..
    c.) re-record in mono
    We were discussing lately sonars pan "situation".. and it's working exactly opposite to what you expect..
    wenn you "pan" the volume of one channel decreases.. if you have a look at your stereo-track you see that the right channel is not having any audio-information.. so panning to the right would mean:
    sonar decreases the left channels volume.. playing only the right channel (which is pure silence!), if you turn the other way your vocals come back..

    You should also use a master-bus where all your tracks go to..

    When you export you don't start moving anything.. export means you are done with your mix!
    And when you listen to the mp3/wav-file it should be exactly the same as you would hear it play within sonar..
    How do you export ?
    ctrl-a (select all)
    now go to the export menu..
    1st(!!!) select the preset "what you hear", then the fileformat, then the location where to save it..




    post edited by Frank Haas - 2007/11/23 08:36:43
    #20
    glover54
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/23 09:15:45 (permalink)
    CJ
    Here are steps for a new song.

    Open Cakewalk - Create New Project (Normal)
    Insert Rewire Device - Reason
    (Reason) - Create Redrum track - Edit - Copy Pattern to Track
    (Reason) - Select NN-19 (Bright Piano)

    (Cakewalk) - Select Track 3
    (Cakewalk) - Volume - 101
    (Cakewalk) - Pan - Center
    (Cakewalk) - Velocity Trim - 0
    (Cakewalk) - FX - None
    (Cakewalk) - Input - Omni - None
    (Cakewalk) - Output - Select Reason
    (Cakewalk) - Midi Channel - Select NN-19
    (Cakewalk) - Bank - Blank
    (Cakewalk) - Patch - None
    (Cakewalk) - Record 8 measures of Piano
    (Cakewalk) - Playback and move Pan on Track 3, hear no difference in left or right monitors. Sounds level same on both, no change when moving Pan all the way to left or right

    (Cakewalk) - Select Track 1 (Audio)
    (Cakewalk) - Volume - 0.0
    (Cakewalk) - Pan - Canter
    (Cakewalk) - Volume Trim 0.0 db
    (Cakewalk) - Phase - Normal
    (Cakewalk) - Changed from Stereo to Mono
    (Cakewalk) - Input - Stereo M Audio Delta 44 Multi 1/2
    (Cakewalk) - Output - Master
    (Cakewalk) - Effect - Send 1
    (Cakewalk) - Bus Effect Send 1 Post Fader
    (Cakewalk) - Bus Effect Send 1 Send Level 0.0
    (Cakewalk) - Bus Effect Send 1 Send Pan C
    (Cakewalk) - Record Vocal

    (Cakewalk) - Playback - Move pan to right, almost cuts out completely Move Pan to center and the volume returns, move pan to left, it is the same volume as center. But the volume is the same in both speakers.
    #21
    glover54
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/23 09:25:24 (permalink)
    jimack - I used the bounce to track and it worked great.

    Frank Haas - I export exactly the steps you stated.
    Based on your explanation, I now understand why the pan cut out when moving to the right, because I recorded in stereo and there was nothing in the right.

    But now based on that, I recorded a new track in mono. I assume that if I pan to the right, I would hear more volume on the right speaker, and the same with the left. But it seems that the right diminishes the volume in both speakers. Left does not really increase, it is the same as center. How then can I send more volume to one speaker and less to the other?

    I think we are closer, hang in there with me guys, you are saving clumps of hair I would be pulling out.
    #22
    Frank Haas
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/23 10:50:57 (permalink)
    Cakewalk) - Input - Stereo M Audio Delta 44 Multi 1/2


    that's your mistake !!!
    can't you choose something like LEFT M AUDIO.. or RIGHT M AUDIO ?

    oh, and from your setup you should choose the LEFT M AUDIO..
    post edited by Frank Haas - 2007/11/23 11:03:47
    #23
    Frank Haas
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    RE: Vocals on right side after export 2007/11/23 11:04:52 (permalink)
    just read the manual..

    I think.. it's in your M-Audio Control Panel
    -> Hardware Settings
    -> Multitrack Driver Devices -> Independent

    After switching to "independent".. check your input-options in Sonar again.. look if there's a "left"/"right" entry..

    Some users here have an M-Audio Card.. they can tell us if that's the way to go.. I never had an M-Audio Card in my fingers.. so that's as far as I can help you

    post edited by Frank Haas - 2007/11/23 11:17:50
    #24
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