Volume Envelopes and Editing

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Nutty
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2009/01/10 18:15:09 (permalink)

Volume Envelopes and Editing

If you do a punch in recording, is there any way to tell what the real volume of the recordings are so you can match them up? Or, as I suspect, do you have to do it by ear with volume envelopes?

I know sometimes it is easier to just record it over again, but I would like to try and use these other tools so I can do better recording and mixing.

Any tips on cut and paste would be good too. I usaully set the snap to grid to 128th. I have never tried absolute time. Not sure which is better to use. I try to use the time line as much as possible for cutting and pasting, e.g. cut 2 measures and paste 2 measures; however when you do that the actual recording may be slightly different. Is this where you would have to use the nudge feature?

Thanks.

Annette

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    Beagle
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/10 18:36:48 (permalink)
    if you haven't changed the gain on the input amp then your volume of recording should be relatively the same. for vocals that's more difficult because the volume is also affected by your voice's volume, distance to the mic, temperature of the room, etc, but punch in is very effective and really a great tool to use.

    as far as resolution - use what works. i don't ever use relative time, either. i change it frequently depending on what I'm doing, tho. for cutting at the measure level, I always set the snap to grid at measure. or if the clip is less than a measure that I want to move, I'll set the resolution lower, cut the clip, then increase the resolution size to quarter notes so that when I move it, I can visually tell if I've moved it in time (when moving from one track to another in the same time).

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    #2
    Nutty
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/10 19:02:45 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Beagle
    or if the clip is less than a measure that I want to move, I'll set the resolution lower, cut the clip, then increase the resolution size to quarter notes so that when I move it, I can visually tell if I've moved it in time (when moving from one track to another in the same time).


    This is the scenario I was trying to describe and haven't been able to do. I just tried your method, but didn't get far. I usually use the split function. When I tried the cut, as soon as I right click, it highlights the whole track. When you change it to quarter notes, is it just increasing the resolution?

    Thanks.

    Annette

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    #3
    Beagle
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/10 19:19:03 (permalink)
    highlighting the whole track when you right click is normal but that shouldn't stop you from using the split tool. when you right click, it highlights the track, then a menu will pop up with choices. choose SPLIT. another window will pop up and in the TIME field there's a value. that value will be whereever your NOW TIME is currently sitting. but you can change it if you wish to any time.

    or you can use the scissors tool (click on the scissors icon). and it will split where you click depending on the resolution. however if you click 1/2 way thru the measure and you've got the snap to grid resolution on WHOLE note, then it will jump to the nearest whole not position (right or left depending on which is closer) and split the clip there.

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    #4
    Beagle
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/10 19:20:07 (permalink)
    oh - and your now time marker should go to the nearest resolution point where you right clicked anyway.

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    Nutty
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/10 20:13:03 (permalink)
    I wasn't sure if there was a difference between the split tool and scissors. When the track is highlighted I have no problem with the SPLIT function. However, the track must be highlighted for the scissor icon to appear, then when I click it, it cuts the whole track. I have the snap to grid at 128th. So, I am missing something...or I'll just stick with the split function.

    Nutty /Annette
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    Beagle
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/10 20:14:48 (permalink)
    I don't understand what you mean by "it cuts the whole track" - do you mean it deletes the whole track?

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    Nutty
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/10 20:29:04 (permalink)
    Yes, it deletes the whole track.

    Nutty /Annette
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    Beagle
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/10 20:35:41 (permalink)
    i have never seen behavior like that, nor can I duplicate it. I'm sorry - I don't know.

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    Nutty
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/10 20:44:36 (permalink)
    Well that is weird. Is your track highlighted when you select the scissor icon? As soon as I select the scissor, the message come up about the events...I select okay and the whole track disappears. That doesn't happen with the split function. So, if there is no difference between the scissor and split function, I'll stick with the split until someone can figure out what is going wrong. Are you using Sonar 8? I'm not sure that would make a difference though.

    Thanks.

    Annette

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    57Gregy
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/10 23:02:46 (permalink)
    Must be something new, Annette, I've never heard of that happening, and I always use the sciccors tool.
    What does the pop-up dialog read in S8?
    Also, when copying and pasting clips, it's handy if you know when the clip you're pasting starts.
    Say you have a short part, and it's perfectly on-time. Right-click the clip and select properties. Note the start time of the clip, let's say it's 8:02:031. You want to use that same part later in the song in measure 48, and you want it to be on-time, too. So you right-click the clip, copy. Then you can immediately right-click again and select paste. Then change the start time in the paste dialog to 48:02:031, you don't even have to move the now line to measure 48. Click OK and the clip is now on-time in measure 48.

    Greg 

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    Beagle
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/10 23:16:06 (permalink)
    I'm using sonar 6, but I doubt they changed it between 6 & 8. the track does not highlight when I use the scissor tool, it just cuts. have you tried exiting sonar and restarting it?

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    SteveStrummerUK
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/11 05:51:22 (permalink)

    Hi Annette

    I can't replicate what you're seeing in S8 although I do see why it appears the Split (Scissors) Tool is 'selecting' parts of the audio.

    Bear with me Annette and work through this little exercise with me - if you can let us know exactly when it all goes pear-shaped then I'm sure we can resolve your problem.


    Open up S8 and record about 6 or 7 measures of audio in Track 1 - as in this screenshot:



    (This shows the clip de-selected, i.e, with a green background; clips that are selected in other screenshots have the black background)


    Set Snap To Grid to Half and select the Split Toll.

    Left click in the clip at the beginning of measure 4.

    The whole clip will become 'selected' and you'll see the split line appear where you clicked:



    The whole clip becomes highlighted to show which clip has been split. If you click outside the clip to deselect it you'll now just see the split.


    Now we'll do another split at the start of measure 5; do exacltly as before but this time you'll notice that only the area between the previous split and the end of the audio become selected:




    Click outside to deselect and try another split - this time we'll split measure 4 in half:




    Deselect measure 4 and your project should now look like like this:






    Steve


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    Nutty
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/11 17:54:38 (permalink)
    Wow, thanks for the great pics.....unfortunately, my problem starts at the very beginning. My scissors do not show up in the tool bar unless I have the track selected. Then when I select the scissors the box comes up asking what events to include and when I select okay, the whole track disappears. If I highlight the track and right click to use the split option, it is okay. There must be something I have in my set up that nobody else is using, but I don't know where to check.

    Greg...thanks for the tips on copying the clips. That certainly helps.

    Thanks.

    Annette

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    SteveStrummerUK
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/11 18:02:07 (permalink)

    I'm at a loss I'm afraid Annette - can you do a screenshot of the dialogue box?

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    Nutty
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/11 18:34:33 (permalink)
    Okay, this is the edit tool bar where the scissor icon does not show up.




    I then select the track and the scissor icon appears.



    This is the "cut" message after I select the scissors.



    Once I select okay, the whole track disappears.

    Hope this helps. I wasn't sure if I cropped the screen shots too much or not.

    Thanks for your help.

    Annette

    Hmm..as I was previewing this, I was wondering if I should deselect "events in track"? I have no other idea on what to do. I'll be embarrassed (again) if that's the problem.

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    Nutty
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/11 18:57:28 (permalink)
    Boy, now I know why it is much easier to just re-record the track until you get it perfect. I am trying to copy measures and then cut and paste them in other parts of the track. I want to select measures 35-43. When I select the 43, it highlights the track from 43 on. So I go to 35 and click on it..I tried with both the control key and shift key, but it then selects 35 to the end of the track. It has to be something in the set-up ???? Oh, I tried de-selecint the events in track and that doesn't work either.


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    57Gregy
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/11 19:28:35 (permalink)
    They must have changed the scissors tool to a cut tool instead of a split tool. In SONAR SHS 6, it's a split tool. 'Cut' in this instance means 'remove', which is why the clip disappears.

    Greg 

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    57Gregy
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/11 19:47:59 (permalink)
    Here's how it looks in SHS 6:



    It's gray until selected, then it turns blue. When I split, the track is not selected (doesn't turn black):



    You must have the "Special Edition" scissors, Nutty.

    Greg 

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    Nutty
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/11 20:04:52 (permalink)
    Thank you for posting that Greg. I never noticed that there was another pair of scissors. I'm sure that was the edit bar I was working from. After your post, I went back and it could not be clicked. Then I found the other one cause you said it stays grey until selected, which is why I never noticed it I guess...plus I already had a pair of scissors! Sure enough, the one I choice says "cut" and the new scissors I found say "split" when you scroll over it. I never picked up on it with Steve's screen shots either. Mystery solved once again..DOH....why would they have two pairs of scossors???? Not always the most user friendly software (for me anyway).



    Thanks a million!

    Annette

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    Guitarhacker
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/11 20:38:03 (permalink)
    nutty... just dialing in..... I NEVER use the scissors..... (just because).... here's how I do it....

    I highlight the track by clicking it.... then.... (BTW: I DO USE ABSOLUTE TIME.... it allows very precise positioning of the curser). I right click on the track where I want the SPLIT. A window opens and I select SPLIT... there is a time value...that allows you to enter the number of the measure, beat and ticks where you want the split to occur. I normally zoom in to see my split point better.

    Make your second split the same way, and you can delete the clip, copy it drag it..... whatever you want to do with it....without affecting the remainder of the track.

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    57Gregy
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/11 20:43:10 (permalink)
    Glad you got it figured out, Annette. Two pairs of scissors! Who'da thunk it?
    About the splitting and copy/pasting: you need to split both ends of the piece you want to copy, I think. At least I do.

    Greg 

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    Nutty
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/11 20:43:35 (permalink)
    Just to add to my *special* version of Cakewalk products I seem to acquire...this has happened a couple of times now. I'll start to record and it will show as a fat line. So, I stop thinking I've done something wrong. Then, the wave forms magically appears. So, I hit the record button waiting for the count-in bars and introduction...and sure enough more wave forms show up! I guess I must be over taxing the software?

    I don't know...

    Definitely,

    Nutty

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    57Gregy
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    RE: Volume Envelopes and Editing 2009/01/11 21:31:05 (permalink)
    There's a check-box in Options>Global to turn off or on the as-you-record waveform drawing. Since it does use some processing power, I have mine turned off.

    Greg 

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