Walking blind, need some understanding about Cakewalk & MIDI files

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houseofman
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2012/05/07 11:35:00 (permalink)

Walking blind, need some understanding about Cakewalk & MIDI files

Hi there,
I understand MIDI files store "how to play the music" but not the actually audio. In this simple form MIDI files often sound tinny when they are played??
Does this then mean that a program such as Sonar X1 would allow me to be able to apply various instruments to a MIDI file and then export it as a MP3 file (or some other format)?
Thank you in advance for your help.
--
Phillip
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    Guitarpima
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    Re:Walking blind, need some understanding about Cakewalk & MIDI files 2012/05/07 11:40:36 (permalink)
    Yes.

    First insert a synth you want into the synth rack.
    Load and instrument into the synth.
    Route the midi track to the synth.

    It can be that easy or more complcated depending on what your doing. Most synths have multiple outs and you can load multiple instrments on different midi channels and outs to correspond to those channel. Your best bet is trial and error and reading the manuals.

    HTH

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    vanblah
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    Re:Walking blind, need some understanding about Cakewalk & MIDI files 2012/05/07 12:09:50 (permalink)
    In response to your question about the "tinny sound."  MIDI files do not produce ANY sound on their own.  They require that you have some kind of synthesizer (hardware or software) to provide the instruments.

    The reason you hear a tinny sound is because the MIDI file is using your soundcard's built in wavetable (synthesizer).  These are usually very low quality in order to save space as well as cost (since quality samples cost money).

    The other issue is that the MIDI file has been set up to use generic General MIDI sounds (these are the same sounds on ANY general MIDI capable synth so that the song will sound pretty much the same across any system). These are usually fairly low quality as well.  You can beef them up by replacing them (when possible) with samples of your own.

    Or you can point each MIDI track to a different sound source and then tweak as necessary.
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    daryl1968
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    Re:Walking blind, need some understanding about Cakewalk & MIDI files 2012/05/07 12:14:27 (permalink)
    Hi Phillip
    To answer your question, yes you can use Sonar X1 to make your midi files sound better.
    Depending which version you buy, all versions of X1 come with some pretty decent 'soft synths' which enable you to play your midi files through these sound generators. You can then mix your files and export them as a Wave file (or MP3 as an optional extra at a small extra cost).
    Good luck.
    Daryl 
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Walking blind, need some understanding about Cakewalk & MIDI files 2012/05/07 12:20:59 (permalink)
    ditto. 

    Midi is data and contains all the necessary information to replicate the note properly..... pitch, velocity, volume, duration, and probably a bunch more things too.

    Ultimately, the final quality of the sound is determined more by the patch or the sample you are telling the midi note to sound through. The better the sample, the better the music will sound. 

    For example the same midi note can be played through a synth as a violin note. Using General Midi instruments it will sound fake. Using GPO it will sound much better. Using Vienna Symphony it will sound freaking amazing. .... same note, but through 3 different synths and samples. 

    And of course, you can change that same midi note to a bagpipe if you wish. 




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    daryl1968
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    Re:Walking blind, need some understanding about Cakewalk & MIDI files 2012/05/07 12:24:19 (permalink)
    Guitarhacker


    ditto. 

    Midi is data and contains all the necessary information to replicate the note properly..... pitch, velocity, volume, duration, and probably a bunch more things too.

    Ultimately, the final quality of the sound is determined more by the patch or the sample you are telling the midi note to sound through. The better the sample, the better the music will sound. 

    For example the same midi note can be played through a synth as a violin note. Using General Midi instruments it will sound fake. Using GPO it will sound much better. Using Vienna Symphony it will sound freaking amazing. .... same note, but through 3 different synths and samples. 

    And of course, you can change that same midi note to a bagpipe if you wish. 

    nooooooooo - don't encourage anyone to use bagpipes !!!  :)
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Walking blind, need some understanding about Cakewalk & MIDI files 2012/05/07 12:37:22 (permalink)
    daryl1968


    Guitarhacker


    ditto. 

    Midi is data and contains all the necessary information to replicate the note properly..... pitch, velocity, volume, duration, and probably a bunch more things too.

    Ultimately, the final quality of the sound is determined more by the patch or the sample you are telling the midi note to sound through. The better the sample, the better the music will sound. 

    For example the same midi note can be played through a synth as a violin note. Using General Midi instruments it will sound fake. Using GPO it will sound much better. Using Vienna Symphony it will sound freaking amazing. .... same note, but through 3 different synths and samples. 

    And of course, you can change that same midi note to a bagpipe if you wish. 

    nooooooooo - don't encourage anyone to use bagpipes !!!  :)

    vavoosalas perhaps? 

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
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    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #7
    Crg
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    Re:Walking blind, need some understanding about Cakewalk & MIDI files 2012/05/07 19:49:00 (permalink)
    Midi is data, but specialized instruments from various Midi instruments will have varieing amounts of expression and detail written into the Midi code for that particular synth-software instrument- voice in the particular patch in the synth-instrument. A voice is a constructed set of waves+variations+effects+ controls for the period from note on to note off, which is the basic cycle of midi data. Tinny Midi data or voices can be caused by mis-matched synths or midi formats. The problem becomes more complex when you learn what the differences are between GM 1, GM2, and brand name synth midi variations. All of which will contain different instructions in the midi code that will cause a voiced sequence of sounds and instructions for EQ, gain, velocity, reverb, attack, sustain, and many more parameters.
        Then there is your DAW and interface-soundcard. Computer electronica music is quite complex. So, what are you using for a controller, for a synth and DAW, and for playback? For starters.

    Craig DuBuc
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    Cactus Music
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    Re:Walking blind, need some understanding about Cakewalk & MIDI files 2012/05/07 22:56:35 (permalink)
    Any MIDI software that supports VST plug ins will make a MIDI file sound a little bit better than your MS wavetable. I recommend changing all the the patches to 109 including channel 10.

    Johnny V  
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    houseofman
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    Re:Walking blind, need some understanding about Cakewalk & MIDI files 2012/05/08 00:18:46 (permalink)
    Wow! What great and timely responses. Thank you everyone for your assistance.
    I think my next step should be to download and test out the trial version.
    I appreciate your help.
    --
    Regards,
    Phillip
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    John
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    Re:Walking blind, need some understanding about Cakewalk & MIDI files 2012/05/08 01:20:48 (permalink)
    The trial version may not offer you what you will need to get a good understanding how X1 works with MIDI files and soft synths. I can tell you this though the full version of X1 Producer comes with around 20 synths. Most are very useful for outputting great sound.

    However there are other synths you will want to look at to add to what X1 has. That can be done over time.

    The control and the sound you can get with X1 is the very best around. A lot of the music you hear is done with DAWs like X1 using soft synths as well as hardware synths, which X1 supports.

    If you are interested in translating standard MIDI files known as GM MIDI, X1 is one of the very best choices.

    Also with X1 you will have this forum to back you in learning it and answering questions you will have.

    Welcome to the X1 forum and I hope the next time you post its to say you have X1 Producer.



    Best
    John
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Walking blind, need some understanding about Cakewalk & MIDI files 2012/05/08 07:36:41 (permalink)
    houseofman


    Wow! What great and timely responses. Thank you everyone for your assistance.
    I think my next step should be to download and test out the trial version.
    I appreciate your help.
    --
    Regards,
    Phillip
    Most of the trial versions are extremely limited in that they have many features shut off and may not come with the synths that you are obviously seeking.  But it may still be worth checking into. ( trials versions may be fully functional for a limited amount of time, which would mean the synths too, but with pared down sample libraries until you buy the unlock keys) It's the LE versions that don;t have everything turned on and included. 


    I have never downloaded a trial version so they may in fact have the synths but not the huge sample libraries. The samples would be much much smaller to save time and space. 


    One important thing to remember...... you can run X1 in a factory laptop sound card...... but with great difficulty and you probably will not be 100% pleased with the results. Many people get clicks, pops, dropouts and extreme latency especially when using the VST synths. 


     Everyone I know here, who has been doing this for any amount of time is using an external USB interface for input and output of audio & midi, including me. An interface makes life so much easier with Sonar. 


    Let us know if we can help. 

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
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