Want to build a new DAW Monster for use with Virtual Instruments? Need DAW advice please!

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rockoman
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2010/08/08 12:52:45 (permalink)

Want to build a new DAW Monster for use with Virtual Instruments? Need DAW advice please!

 I guess I'll have to stick with an i7-920 or i7-930 budget wise. From all that I read, I think either should be enough to run what I want. I usually have 30+ tracks at a time, many plugIns, and I want to start using mostly Virtual Instruments (Guitar Rig, Native Instruments Pakage, etc....). I realize RAM plays a big part so I'm starting out with 6Gigs. I also would like to do a 3 Hard Drive setup, since I'll be using a lot of samples.  Here's what I'm currently looking at. Please add your opinions and advice for the type of setup I'm looking to do (all links clickable to Newegg). I'm looking to get the least amount of latency too. The ones with the "?" mark I need advice on. Thank you.

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R
Memory: G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB)
CPU: Either an i7-920 or i7-930
Case: COOLER MASTER Storm Scout
Power Supply: ?
Video Card: ?
Hard Drives: ?
OS: Win7 64bit

Sonar 8.5 Studio (Currently Own)
Interface: Focusrite Saffire 56 (Currently Own)
VSTi: Kontakt Komplete 7 (on order!)

Notes:
*I don't want to do a 10,000rpm hard drive. I think 7200 16MB cache is plenty sufficient. I'm just not sure on the sizes.

*I realize video cards are not top priority but I need to know which brands/drivers don't conflict much with DAWs. Should I get a card with a lot of on-board Ram or not?

This is enough info for now. Please add to the post. Thank you so much.
Rock!

It's not what we're doing, it's how you do it :)



#1

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    Guest
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    Re:Want to build a new DAW Monster for use with Virtual Instruments? Need DAW advice pleas 2010/08/08 13:28:18 (permalink)
    Get the 930 (newer/faster), WD 1TB/32mb FAEX drives (new black series), NVidia is less of a pain in the ass and don't let anyone tell you otherwise, any decent power supply. I use Sonatas for cases because they are quiet.
    #2
    tyacko
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    Re:Want to build a new DAW Monster for use with Virtual Instruments? Need DAW advice pleas 2010/08/09 08:10:07 (permalink)
    If you can afford it, I'd suggest getting a solid state hard drive for your OS drive.

    Here is a good one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167023

    If you can afford another SSD drive, I'd use a larger one for my samples drive as it would perform well for gathering the samples from the disk quickly.  However, larger SSD drives may be cost prohibitive.

    As for the audio drive, I think the one 10Ten suggested would be a good one.

    As for video, I would suggest a fanless video card as combining this and the SSD drives will allow for a much quieter recording experience when recording mics.  However, I have to admit that the case you've chosen is probably not the best with regards to recording quietly.

    For the power supply, I'd again look at getting enough wattage (probably 650w or greater).  But, I'd also look at how loud they are.  You can create a "monster" PC, but the problem is that it can also sound like a jet engine when you turn it on if you aren't careful with your purchase.

    Hope this helps,
    Tom

    Our SoundClick page

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    #3
    LpMike75
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    Re:Want to build a new DAW Monster for use with Virtual Instruments? Need DAW advice pleas 2010/08/09 18:52:05 (permalink)
    I would invest in more than 6 gigs of RAM if you are using large sampling libraries.


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    #4
    rockoman
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    Re:Want to build a new DAW Monster for use with Virtual Instruments? Need DAW advice pleas 2010/08/10 14:08:56 (permalink)
    LpMike75


    I would invest in more than 6 gigs of RAM if you are using large sampling libraries.

    Does 12Gig sound better to you? Do you think it's worth sacrificing other areas of the build to stay within budget? Say, go with 16MB hard drive caches instead of 32MB, 500gig hard drive sizes instead of TB, etc... in order to make buying more memory possible? 

    10Ten



    Get the 930 (newer/faster), WD 1TB/32mb FAEX drives (new black series), NVidia is less of a pain in the ass and don't let anyone tell you otherwise, any decent power supply. I use Sonatas for cases because they are quiet.
    Thanks for the reply. I've done more research and you really don't get a ton more processing power with the 930 VS the 920. I think I might just wait for the 950 price cuts if they happen as they are rumored to. Looks like a great hard drive. Do you recommend going 32MB over 16?

    tyacko


    If you can afford it, I'd suggest getting a solid state hard drive for your OS drive.

    Here is a good one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167023

    As for video, I would suggest a fanless video card as combining this and the SSD drives will allow for a much quieter recording experience when recording mics.  However, I have to admit that the case you've chosen is probably not the best with regards to recording quietly.

    For the power supply, I'd again look at getting enough wattage (probably 650w or greater).  But, I'd also look at how loud they are.  You can create a "monster" PC, but the problem is that it can also sound like a jet engine when you turn it on if you aren't careful with your purchase.

    Hope this helps,
    Tom

    Thanks for the reply! Man, those SSD's look incredible!! I just can't justify the price vs space right now. Maybe in the future; I'm going to wait till their prices drop. I'd like to put most of the budget into core components that will be more than enough for right now.  Fanless it is! Any recommendation on the amount of video card onboard memory needed for a DAW? Do you agree that Nvidia are less "problematic"?


    Thanks for the replies everyone! Keep them coming!
    post edited by rockoman - 2010/08/10 14:10:03

    It's not what we're doing, it's how you do it :)



    #5
    tyacko
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    Re:Want to build a new DAW Monster for use with Virtual Instruments? Need DAW advice pleas 2010/08/10 14:35:54 (permalink)
    Per Video Cards, I've used Nvidia as well as others with my Sonar DAWs and didn't run into issues that others are experiencing.  IMHO it probably depends on the hardware components that are chosen, how the OS picks the IRQ channels, as well as what PCI/PCIe slots you use that really cause a lot of conflicts, and lastly how good the video driver works with other applications as well.

    As for more RAM or not, I'd also say that you can freeze synth tracks if you hit the RAM limit of your PC.  I've only gone over 4gigs with my projects once because I was building a symphonic part with individual instruments.

    If it were me buying the PC, I'd try to get a very good motherboard (with the ability to future upgrade the CPU) that has sufficient PCI/PCIe, and USB 3.0 slots that will allow you to expand going forward.  Get a good CPU (which I think you've chosen) to run with for a few years, get enough RAM to be productive, a silent 1G Video card, and use the rest of the money on hard drives (and an external backup hard drive) for your projects.

    I'd definitely ask other Saffire users what motherboard/CPU they picked and if they like it because bad driver conflicts there could ruin the experience.

    Hope this helps,
    Tom

    Our SoundClick page

    ASUS P9X79 PRO, Intel i7 3930K, 32gig RAM G.SKILL Ripjaws, RME Babyface USB, GeForce GTX 550 Ti, UAD-2, Intel 510 120gig SSD Drive, Win7 64-bit, Sonar X1E 64-bit, Studio One V2 
    #6
    dmbaer
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    Re:Want to build a new DAW Monster for use with Virtual Instruments? Need DAW advice pleas 2010/08/10 17:29:41 (permalink)
    LpMike75


    I would invest in more than 6 gigs of RAM if you are using large sampling libraries.
    Would that not depend on a couple of factors?  I'm not participating in this thread because I have expertise, but instead because I want to educate myself on this topic in order to make a good decision when I next upgrade.
     
    The first factor would be the nature of sample library use.  Does the musical material involve large orchestral forces where many sampled instruments are required concurrently?  Or are we talking about a couple of sampled contributers along with some synths and/or recorded material?  If the former then maybe the added expense of an extra 6M would be justified.  If the latter, I'd guess not.
     
    The other factor is the nature of the sample player.  It's my understanding that streaming sample players are optimized to exploit maximized disk access efficiencies so that memory requirements are reduced without playback suffering.  I don't know ... I'm just asking the question as to whether this is the way things really work.  Hopefully someone can address this with authority.
    #7
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    Re:Want to build a new DAW Monster for use with Virtual Instruments? Need DAW advice pleas 2010/08/10 17:37:50 (permalink)
    rockoman


    LpMike75


    I would invest in more than 6 gigs of RAM if you are using large sampling libraries.

    Does 12Gig sound better to you? Do you think it's worth sacrificing other areas of the build to stay within budget? Say, go with 16MB hard drive caches instead of 32MB, 500gig hard drive sizes instead of TB, etc... in order to make buying more memory possible? 

    10Ten



    Get the 930 (newer/faster), WD 1TB/32mb FAEX drives (new black series), NVidia is less of a pain in the ass and don't let anyone tell you otherwise, any decent power supply. I use Sonatas for cases because they are quiet.
    Thanks for the reply. I've done more research and you really don't get a ton more processing power with the 930 VS the 920. I think I might just wait for the 950 price cuts if they happen as they are rumored to. Looks like a great hard drive. Do you recommend going 32MB over 16?

    tyacko


    If you can afford it, I'd suggest getting a solid state hard drive for your OS drive.

    Here is a good one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167023

    As for video, I would suggest a fanless video card as combining this and the SSD drives will allow for a much quieter recording experience when recording mics.  However, I have to admit that the case you've chosen is probably not the best with regards to recording quietly.

    For the power supply, I'd again look at getting enough wattage (probably 650w or greater).  But, I'd also look at how loud they are.  You can create a "monster" PC, but the problem is that it can also sound like a jet engine when you turn it on if you aren't careful with your purchase.

    Hope this helps,
    Tom

    Thanks for the reply! Man, those SSD's look incredible!! I just can't justify the price vs space right now. Maybe in the future; I'm going to wait till their prices drop. I'd like to put most of the budget into core components that will be more than enough for right now.  Fanless it is! Any recommendation on the amount of video card onboard memory needed for a DAW? Do you agree that Nvidia are less "problematic"?


    Thanks for the replies everyone! Keep them coming!

    The 930 is a better chip and is easier to overclock because of it. The FAEX drives are super fast. I'd buy one over a SSD (and did). In a nice case the GPU fan isn't really going to add much compared to the rest of the system and memory doesn't really matter at 64bit so get as much as you can get on the card.

    post edited by 10Ten - 2010/08/10 17:39:47
    #8
    rockoman
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    Re:Want to build a new DAW Monster for use with Virtual Instruments? Need DAW advice pleas 2010/08/10 18:53:41 (permalink)
    dmbaer
     
    The first factor would be the nature of sample library use.  Does the musical material involve large orchestral forces where many sampled instruments are required concurrently?  Or are we talking about a couple of sampled contributers along with some synths and/or recorded material?  If the former then maybe the added expense of an extra 6M would be justified.  If the latter, I'd guess not.
     
    The other factor is the nature of the sample player.  It's my understanding that streaming sample players are optimized to exploit maximized disk access efficiencies so that memory requirements are reduced without playback suffering.  I don't know ... I'm just asking the question as to whether this is the way things really work.  Hopefully someone can address this with authority.

    You bring up some great points dmbaer.  I'd also like more information regarding this. I'm going to be doing more "scoring" type of work in addition to other. I'll know for a fact I'll be streaming at least 30 midi tracks (at the very least) concurrently to the sample libraries (Kontakt, Battery, Guitar Rig) until I am the very last stages before mix down and also while recording live instrumentation at the same.



    It's not what we're doing, it's how you do it :)



    #9
    rockoman
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    Re:Want to build a new DAW Monster for use with Virtual Instruments? Need DAW advice pleas 2010/08/10 19:04:58 (permalink)
    tyacko


    Per Video Cards, I've used Nvidia as well as others with my Sonar DAWs and didn't run into issues that others are experiencing.  IMHO it probably depends on the hardware components that are chosen, how the OS picks the IRQ channels, as well as what PCI/PCIe slots you use that really cause a lot of conflicts, and lastly how good the video driver works with other applications as well.

    As for more RAM or not, I'd also say that you can freeze synth tracks if you hit the RAM limit of your PC.  I've only gone over 4gigs with my projects once because I was building a symphonic part with individual instruments.

    If it were me buying the PC, I'd try to get a very good motherboard (with the ability to future upgrade the CPU) that has sufficient PCI/PCIe, and USB 3.0 slots that will allow you to expand going forward.  Get a good CPU (which I think you've chosen) to run with for a few years, get enough RAM to be productive, a silent 1G Video card, and use the rest of the money on hard drives (and an external backup hard drive) for your projects.

    I'd definitely ask other Saffire users what motherboard/CPU they picked and if they like it because bad driver conflicts there could ruin the experience.

    Hope this helps,
    Tom


    Thank you Tom for the detailed, helpful reply. I feel more confident especially with my motherboard.  Curious. Did you use the included/downloaded video driver or did you use "windows generic"?

    It's not what we're doing, it's how you do it :)



    #10
    LpMike75
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    Re:Want to build a new DAW Monster for use with Virtual Instruments? Need DAW advice pleas 2010/08/10 23:28:23 (permalink)
    dmbaer


    LpMike75


    I would invest in more than 6 gigs of RAM if you are using large sampling libraries.
    Would that not depend on a couple of factors?  I'm not participating in this thread because I have expertise, but instead because I want to educate myself on this topic in order to make a good decision when I next upgrade.
     
    The first factor would be the nature of sample library use.  Does the musical material involve large orchestral forces where many sampled instruments are required concurrently?  Or are we talking about a couple of sampled contributers along with some synths and/or recorded material?  If the former then maybe the added expense of an extra 6M would be justified.  If the latter, I'd guess not.
     
    The other factor is the nature of the sample player.  It's my understanding that streaming sample players are optimized to exploit maximized disk access efficiencies so that memory requirements are reduced without playback suffering.  I don't know ... I'm just asking the question as to whether this is the way things really work.  Hopefully someone can address this with authority.
     
    I am no expert either.  All I can say is I have been doing alot of orchestra projects as of late and my 8 Gigs gets used up fairly quickly.  I am using EWQL gold with Pianos Gold (monster patches!) Choirs, Storm Drum etc etc.  I read sounds online forums regularly and many people over there advocate 12 or more gigs of RAM for the Orchestral type midi work.  So to answer this question "yes" it is totally dependant on what kind of projects he wants to do and how big/involved they are.  He mentioned many plug ins and the Native Instruments which lead me to believe that he may be loading up a bunch of memory hogging sounds.  6 Gigs is not much in this scenerio from everything I have read and experienced.  My next PC will have no less than 12 gigs thats for sure.  Once you start loading in the Master patches with lots of articulations your memory can get gobbled up quickly.
     
    One place you can start Rock is the Orchestra Shootout on these forums.  Wether you make a submission or not is totally besides the point, you can simply load the midi files and start assigning articulations and instruments.  I'm sure your computer will start to feel the strain at some point and you can gauge how big your projects are compared to that one and how much resources you might need.  Not a complete scientific test I will grant you but one that may lay some clues down for you to see.
    I wish you luck in your new system, it's a shame we outgrow our systems faster than we collect the money to buy new ones!
    -Mike
     
     


    - Mike
    Sonar Platinum - M-Audio Profire 2626 , Pro Tools 11 HD Omni - PC I7 6850K - 64 G RAM - GeForce GTX 970
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    #11
    tyacko
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    Re:Want to build a new DAW Monster for use with Virtual Instruments? Need DAW advice pleas 2010/08/11 07:55:45 (permalink)
    Thank you Tom for the detailed, helpful reply. I feel more confident especially with my motherboard.  Curious. Did you use the included/downloaded video driver or did you use "windows generic"?


    On my Win7 boot, I downloaded the latest drivers from the card manufacturer (GFX).

    Based on the latest info you provided (about "scoring") I'm leaning more towards LPMike75's comments of getting more RAM as well.

    Best of luck with your purchase.  Let us know what all you wind up getting.  Have fun.

    Tom

    Our SoundClick page

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    #12
    rockoman
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    Re:Want to build a new DAW Monster for use with Virtual Instruments? Need DAW advice pleas 2010/08/30 18:29:42 (permalink)
    Okay, well I finally ordered everything. I took everything everyone has said into consideration and done a TON of research. BTW, the Intel I7-950 CPU price dropped considerably TODAY!!!!!

    CPU:
    Intel I7-950

    Motherboard:
    GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R

    RAM:

    CORSAIR XMS3 12GB

    VIDEO CARD:

    GIGABYTE GV-NX84S512HP GeForce 8400 GS 512MB 64-bit GDDR2 (Got Two Of Em')

    3 HARD DRIVES:
     
    One Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache
    Two Western Digital Caviar Black WD7501AALS 750GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache

    Case:
    Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel

    Power Supply:
    Antec NEO ECO 620C 620W

    Windows 7 64bit.

    Now all I have to do is wait for the order and hope I don't have buyers remorse in the meantime :P
    I'm pretty confident in the build/parts list I put together. Oh yeah, I have eat a ton of hot dogs and spaghettio's to pay for it all! Thanks for all your help everyone.  It certainly proved to be a huge factor in the purchase.

    -Rock

    It's not what we're doing, it's how you do it :)



    #13
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