bitflipper
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Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
I bought Kirk Hunter Concert Strings 2 last Sunday and have been downloading it continuously ever since. At the current rate I project to actually have the product in hand by Saturday morning. So for this whole week I can't do anything SONAR. Or much of anything else, lest I slow the download. I bought the library because I need it for an important project. Problem is, there is a deadline, so once I actually get the product I'll have to learn it in a hurry. Consequently, I'm asking those who use CS2 to provide any insight or tips they may have for getting up and running quickly. With only half the files downloaded, I ran the following DOS command: dir *.nki /s > junk.txt & notepad junk.txt Wanna guess how many files came back? 2,114! There are 2,114 instruments defined in this library! OK, half of those are bogus Mac shortcuts, but the other half still amount to 1,057 instruments. Where the heck do I begin?
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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musichoo
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/17 21:29:21
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I don't have KH strings but I have KH Diamond Orchestra. 60 gigs worth of download. Took me a week to download all. Only at my free time, not 24 hours a day. Don't know if this is relevant to you. They always have samples with and without reverb. During composition I use to wet version and during mix down I use the dry version. This is the result. https://www.youtube.com/w...Lr5jMKP7D9ky8ehrHF2BGA
Sonar Platinum. Win7 64bit. i7 CPU 4770. 14 Gig RAM. Roland A500Pro controller keyboard. Korg Krome 88. M-audio Audiophile 2496 soundcard, Focusrite 18i8, Roland UA25EX. Ivory II, True Piano, Addictive Keys, Synthmaster, Harmor, Zeta +2, Lounge Lizard 4, Geist, Miroslav 2, Sample Tank 3. Kaiser grand piano. Shure KSM137 x2. Wave's Renaissance and Gold. Breeze. ST3. Pianoteq 5. AD2.Aether Reverb, Dune2 , Reason 10 and Komplete 10 Ultimate, Syntronik, O8N2 adv, Studio one 3.5 Pro. https://etherealpiano.bandcamp.com/
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/17 22:39:21
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Bapu told me to use Ernie Ball super slinkys.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/17 23:35:46
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I don't have concert strings but I suspect it follows the same Kirk Hunter structure as Concert Brass and the TVAC4 updates for Rock and Pop. Hopefully someone else will pipe up with more precise info, but this seems to be born out by the manual You should look for the NKIs in a folder that will be called something like TVAC4 Instruments. You will probably find a NKI for Violins, Violas, Cellos and Basses and a combined string section. The pattern maker is on a seperate tab of the NKI interface. For most purposes these TVAC4 instruments will be all you need. Keyswitches control the articulations and the solo, quater half and full division settings. The Manual looks a bit daunting but I find the TVAC4 interface to be quite intuitive unless you want to really did deep. I suspect the other NKIs will be individual articulations and will be in other folders. Each of the 5 sections has 12 articulations and 5 division settings and 6 accent styles = 1800 posible combinations. Plus there are other option controls as well.
post edited by Glyn Barnes - 2014/12/18 01:05:45
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lawajava
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/18 00:27:34
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Bit - ask Cecelious2. He has that version and I think even knows Kirk.
Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
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bitflipper
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/18 01:22:26
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mike_mccue Bapu told me to use Ernie Ball super slinkys.
The only ones my delicate piano-player fingers can handle! Impossible to keep in tune, but you can bend them clear around the neck if hou want to. It's "Slinkies" if you're trying to order them online, though.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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bitflipper
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/18 01:40:32
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musichoo, that's some really good stuff! I'm surprised by your choice of piano - Pianoteq has obviously come a long way since the last time I listened to it. Cool how you show all your instruments AND effects in that video. The 670 was on the strings? Interesting choice. I didn't catch what the choir was...is that Miroslav maybe? I miss the Miroslav choirs, but I haven't had any luck getting ST2 to run on my new machine. That's why I bought SampleTank3 - only to find that the vocal patches seriously SUCK. I understand that I can import them into ST3, so hopefully I can get them back that way.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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bitflipper
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/18 01:50:54
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Glyn Barnes For most purposes these TVAC4 instruments will be all you need. Keyswitches control the articulations and the solo, quater half and full division settings.
That was my best guess based on a reading of the manual, so thanks for confirming that, GB. So what's with all the redundant libraries, e.g. TVEC2, TVEC3, TVEC4? They all seem to have the same .nki names. I know they're different samples and obviously different scripting, but are they really that different?
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/18 05:08:59
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bitflipper So what's with all the redundant libraries, e.g. TVEC2, TVEC3, TVEC4? They all seem to have the same .nki names. I know they're different samples and obviously different scripting, but are they really that different?
I guess the old TVAC versions are retained for backwards compatability. As far as i can see the difference is in the scripting and interface, with more features being added. TVEC 4 is a considerable improvment on TVEC 3 IMHO. Unless you had a old project I don't see why you would need the older version, or maybe the older TVEC can run on an older version of Kontakt?
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/18 05:17:24
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bitflipper
mike_mccue Bapu told me to use Ernie Ball super slinkys.
The only ones my delicate piano-player fingers can handle! Impossible to keep in tune, but you can bend them clear around the neck if hou want to. It's "Slinkies" if you're trying to order them online, though.
Good to know. I'll get a few sets and keep them and around and should I ever get you to come for a visit we can put them on something. Do you like Pink or Yellow?
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John
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/18 08:32:29
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musichoo I don't have KH strings but I have KH Diamond Orchestra. 60 gigs worth of download. Took me a week to download all. Only at my free time, not 24 hours a day. Don't know if this is relevant to you. They always have samples with and without reverb. During composition I use to wet version and during mix down I use the dry version. This is the result. https://www.youtube.com/w...Lr5jMKP7D9ky8ehrHF2BGA
That was exquisite! I don't care what stuff you used the composition was inspired. The performance was superb. I most often turn down a song posted via the forum. In this case I turned it up!!!! Now as a Sonar user I am delighted with how you presented the song. Man, do you have talent!!! Let me know how I can buy your stuff. I hope you have a CD or MP3 s an album wouldn't hurt.
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musichoo
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/18 08:46:37
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670 is on pianoteq. I was using the piano preset with minor tweaking. The choir is kontakt. Thanks for listening.
Sonar Platinum. Win7 64bit. i7 CPU 4770. 14 Gig RAM. Roland A500Pro controller keyboard. Korg Krome 88. M-audio Audiophile 2496 soundcard, Focusrite 18i8, Roland UA25EX. Ivory II, True Piano, Addictive Keys, Synthmaster, Harmor, Zeta +2, Lounge Lizard 4, Geist, Miroslav 2, Sample Tank 3. Kaiser grand piano. Shure KSM137 x2. Wave's Renaissance and Gold. Breeze. ST3. Pianoteq 5. AD2.Aether Reverb, Dune2 , Reason 10 and Komplete 10 Ultimate, Syntronik, O8N2 adv, Studio one 3.5 Pro. https://etherealpiano.bandcamp.com/
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Sycraft
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/18 15:22:06
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bitflipper That was my best guess based on a reading of the manual, so thanks for confirming that, GB. So what's with all the redundant libraries, e.g. TVEC2, TVEC3, TVEC4? They all seem to have the same .nki names. I know they're different samples and obviously different scripting, but are they really that different?
Just different scripting. They get better (more powerful and such) with each version. Old versions are for compatibility. The "ESA" aka Easy String Arranger is the newest stuff, TVEC4 the previous version. Either should be fine. To get started, presuming you've a good bit of RAM and such, load up the stuff in 00_cs2_ESA_All_Instruments. That loads up the latest version with the full, half, quarter, and solo instruments all in RAM. The instruments you are looking for are the all articulations one. So like 1st Violins 16,8,4,1 Players All Articulations.nki To start, set it to whole division, turn on divisi live (which will auto split down to half division when you play two notes, and stay at whole division for one note), and set the articulation to AcentPP or AccentMF, which will put a bit of an accent at the start of the note, there's a rotary wheel called Stacatto on the right side controlling the kind. Marcato or Spicatto are good choices to start. If you are going to use an external reverb, find the drop down that says "EarlyRef Vol 3" and turn it to Reverb Off. If not, play around with the settings and use the one you like. That should get you a decent playable sound out of the gate. Make sure to play with divisi live on and off to see if you like it, and also try different section sizes.
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bapu
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/18 15:47:08
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mike_mccue Bapu told me to use Ernie Ball super slinkys.
Bu the trick is to use DGDF#Ab tuning. That's the chit I tells ya.
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bitflipper
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/19 10:42:26
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Thanks for the CS2 advice, guys. The download finally completed yesterday, sooner than projected because some of the last files were small. Note to subsequent travelers: the installation instructions are out of date. I ended up with more folders than the instructions said I should have. There are a LOT of files, so it would be nice if there was some sort of sanity check. I unzipped all the files to their default locations, as instructed. Apparently, this is incorrect. Every instrument I load brings up the "missing samples" dialog and I have to point it to the top-level folder so Kontakt will find them. That's OK, as I've been saving the ones I've found useful in a separate Favorites folder anyway. I initially chose 4 instruments as my starting point: the 16/8/4/1-players TVEC3 1st violins, 1st violas, cellos and basses. Probably not the best choice ultimately, as I'm only using full and half divisions, but I was able to get going quickly and have them sounding pretty good with minimal fuss. I only had one issue while replacing the ST3 violins, stemming from the way TVEC re-purposes the pitch wheel, making it impossible to program in your own pitch bends. This may work differently for the solo instruments, so I'll be checking that out today. If that doesn't work I'll go back to ST3's violin sample for that specific part. The keyswitching is a bit clumsy. They're different for each instrument. Some are above the instrument's pitch range and some are below. They are in reverse order from how they're listed in the UI, which sometimes confuses me. Worst of all, they are not highlighted on the virtual keyboard, as is the norm in most other sample libraries, so I do a lot of searching around. Of course, you can remap the keyswitches, or use MIDI CCs instead. I've just placed the keyswitches in a separate MIDI track so they're a different color in the PRV and that makes it easier. I had one weird experience yesterday that I've not encountered before: a sudden, extremely loud continuous blast of noise that made me scramble for my monitors' power switch. It appears to be coming from Kontakt - I got brave and reproduced it at low volume and it went away when I muted Kontakt. I suspect this may be due to the extreme amount of RAM I'm using for this project. I'll know after I've started bouncing tracks for mixing. All in all, I'm quite pleased with this purchase. It'll be my go-to string library henceforth, and I intend to buy SC3 next year - even if it means having to upgrade Kontakt. Big thanks to Jim (jimusic) for suggesting it! (Jim, I'm only a couple hours away...next time you're going down I-5 stop by and lunch is on me.)
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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wst3
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/19 13:51:25
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you see to be on your way - sorry I did not spot this sooner! I use KH Diamond, CS2, CB2, and Spotlight strings, and have for several years now. Some thoughts to get you up to speed quickly... 1) use the combination patches, e.g. all articulations, all sections, and purge them completely before you start. Then add only the articulations and/or sections you need. Big time saver, and sometimes sanity saver (that lovely noise - I've heard it!) 2) don't wrestle with the included impulses. There are a couple that are quite good, but mostly they aren't - not sure if that is the impulses themselves, or the Kontakt engine, but you'll work faster if you use the reverbs that you know and love. 3) workflow - there are probably a dozen ways to use CS2... I create two MIDI tracks, one for the five parts (Vln1, Vln2, Vla, Vc, and Bass), and one for key-switches. Used to use 10 tracks, and there are some advantages, but lately I'm using MIDI channels to separate things, and it is working out quite nicely. 4) The strings are recorded very intimately. Which is cool, you can create a wide array of sounds, but be very aware of timing, as it will change as you apply effects, or rather it will seem to change. It doesn't really. 5) The Adagio patch is really good for roughing things in, then go back and play with the other articulations. 6) If you don't need the legato leave it off for this project. Many of the other patches do a really convincing job of legato, and getting the Smart Legato to behave was on of my bigger frustrations. UGH! FWIW I picked up 8Dio Agitato and Adagietto this year, and I find I am using KH CS2 less, but it is still in the template, and it still gets used. Several of the CS2 articulations layer beautifully with the 8Dio strings. Of all the cool tricks that 8Dio use, by far and away the coolest (to my ears) is their dynamic bowing patches. Imagine if you will capturing the actual speed and direction changes in the recorded samples. I know, we are all quite used to using CC1, CC11, and others to simulate these things, but I have to say, I used the dynamic bowing patches for the first time this morning, and I'm blown away at the results. If I were in a hurry I could skip over the polishing phase entirely, I won't, but could, it sounds that good right out of the box. I got a LOT of mileage out of Kirk's libraries, and expect that I will get a lot more, I will probably upgrade to CS3 when funds allow. The current libs require a little more work than some newer offerings, but that's to be expected as developers extend the whole concept of sampled instruments. But I still like the KH libraries, they will serve you well. In the meantime, if you run into challenges, and the schedule doesn't provide the luxury of digging around pm me or post and I'll be glad to answer what I can. I'm guessing I've hit many of the challenges already<G>!
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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bitflipper
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/19 18:53:07
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Thanks to Sycraft for suggesting DivisiLive. That's pretty slick. Thank you Bill for the excellent practical advice. I'm already in the habit of purging Kontakt libraries, a habit gained out of necessity working for so long with insufficient RAM. But it's especially helpful for these large libraries when you've got a bunch of instruments loaded up (I'm currently using 5 instruments after adding 2nd violins). Purging can drop the RAM load by 80% (!) if you're only using a few articulations. Yes, I found out what you mean about the "smart" legato. It required a little side-trip of reading and experimentation to figure out what it's doing and how to make it stop doing it so aggressively. Thanks for the offer of help. I will take you up on it if the need arises!
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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lawajava
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/19 20:28:37
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Glad it's working for you no wand you have a few days to scramble to put your piece(s) together.
In the future, if you do move to Kontakt 5 or better, Spotlight Strings from KH are really nice.
Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
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jimusic
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/22 01:02:15
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bitflipper Big thanks to Jim (jimusic) for suggesting it! (Jim, I'm only a couple hours away...next time you're going down I-5 stop by and lunch is on me.) Thanks Bit. If I'm ever down that way, I'll let ya know ahead of time. It'd be a pleasure to meet you. Your knowledge and advice here on the forums is legendary, so maybe you'll be able to ' un-stupid' me just a little tiny bit. My download was fairly reasonable time wise. I didn't have the troubles that you've had starting out, so I was a bit concerned for ya when reading though this post, but between the good advice given here and your starting points, it looks like your off to a good start anyway. It's quite a good library, and I think you'll be cruisin' along with it in no time at all. At first, it looked a bit confusing and even a bit overwhelming, but it's gets really easy and comfortable fairly quickly after just clicking around a bit with it and seeing the other pages & options. I do hope it serves you well.
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Fleer
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/23 00:13:50
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Bit, if you haven't already, put the old Miroslav in your ST3. It works fine.
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bitflipper
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/23 10:02:47
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I just did that a couple days ago, along with all the ST2.5 libraries. Haven't tried the Miroslav content yet, but I was disappointed to find some of my favorite ST2 patches didn't make the transition. ST3 crashed three times during the import, until I broke it down into smaller chunks. Then I ended up with duplicates and can't figure out how to delete them!
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Fleer
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Re: Want to hear from KH Concert Strings users
2014/12/23 11:30:23
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Better open a case with Support, they respond very promptly. For me, importing Miroslav and SonikSynth went smoothly, except for one file in SonikSynth I had to remove first.
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