Warm-sounding Pad

ORIGINAL: Russell.Whaley

Though I have plenty of years in with instruments, theory, and all of that stuff, I'm very much a noob with synthesis... and looking for some help.

There is a "warm" synth pad that is used frequently on many popular recordings. One example that I can think of right away comes from the opening theme from Star Trek: Enterprise. At the very end of the song before the fade is completed, all that is left is this "warm" sound. I've heard it in many other recordings, too.

I have tried to duplicate this on Rapture, but I am finding that I don't know enough (yet) about the art of combining waveforms, effects, and "magic" to come up with a particular sound. I would like to be able to duplicate this sound for a couple songs I'm working on.

Any thoughts/tips or recipes?

Thanks, folks...

Russ

I don't know the Enterprise theme, but warm pads are usually made with saws. Try a two elements pad and load saws in each. Tune them unison with a slight difference in pitch -- +2 cents up on one, -2 cents down on the other -- hear the beat? That's "poor mans' chorus".

Now, apply 2 pole low pass filters to both, give them both 10% resonance, and tune down the cutoff to somewhere between 500 and 1000 hz. Is this sound you want?

If you want sparkle, add a third element, triangle wave, an octave above. Filter again with 2-pole low pass to taste.

You can also change the filters to 2-pole bandpass, and tune in the frequencies you like. With a bandpass filter, as you open the resonance, you open the bandwidth and allow more of the sound through. But be careful with resonance -- if you take it above 50%, you can create an unstable self-oscillating situation that will kick you in the ears. This sound is useful for cutting leads, but not warm pads.

You can also make pads from squares, sines, and a combination thereof. Rapture has so many variations of the fundamental waveforms, you can create just about anything, but start with two or three elements using simple waveforms, and go from there. Don't forget your filters -- they are the key.

Also with pads, it's important to have a proper attack and let-off envelope shape. Rapture's modifier section is excellent and easy to use. Try creating an Amp envelope with a .5 second rise time and release time. Check the manual for how to setup the Sustain piece (you pres the S key when you're over that node, but look in the manual).

Another trick is to find a program that has a sound shape you like, and to use that as a template. You can also copy and paste the waveforms between elements (or an entire element), making programming in Rapture very easy indeed.

Yeah, kwgm's advice is good. One additional suggestion that you may want to try is to bring in yet another element with a sawtooth oscillator tuned an octave below the two primary elements. Start with it at a level of 0 and bring it up until it's barely audible - just enough to thicken the sound up. You can also try doubling this (by adding another element) and detuning the two lower oscillators the same way that you did with the two higher oscillators to get a really rich, lush-sounding warm pad. Apply the filter and amp envelope (i.e., ADSR) to taste.

Thanks for the insights -- it's great to have knowledgeable people here! I'll give them a try later this week after the mid-week Lent crunch is over. (I do have Simon Cann's book - great stuff).

Cheers,

Russ

ORIGINAL: fac

Juno 106 - warmest pads I've ever played.

Alot of what makes the 106 so fat is the Roland chorus which comes with the unit. Another Juno not as well known, but which also makes really lush pads is the Juno 1 and 2, which came out around 1986. They were mostly analog with some digital control. The string sounds (i.e. pad) were really sweet. Obviously any "real" analog synth is going to sound more organic, but definitely you can pull this off in Rapture. I think the Anderton set uses some waveforms which really exploit this capability.

Edit: Btw I own both Juno 106 and Juno 2.

ORIGINAL: ew

ORIGINAL: fac

Juno 106 - warmest pads I've ever played.

I'd disagree.

So you don't agree that the warmest pads *I* have ever played came from a Juno-106?

I never played a Juno-60 or an Oberheim, so I can't compare with those. But of all the synths I've owned, the best synths for warm pads were the 106 and the Ensoniq SQ-80 / ESQ-1. I sold my 106 after one of the voices died and I was unable to repair it, and my cousin borrowed my ESQ-1 (I would get it back but I don't have space for it), so right now I don't have an analog pad machine. I can make some pretty good pad sounds with my dotcom modular but it's monophonic, although sampling it into Dimension Pro works great.

Maybe I should make some space for the ESQ-1 after all.

ORIGINAL: ew

No, I'm saying it's not that in my case. Sorry for any confusion...

No confusion here. I was just being sarcastic.

Anyway, the idea is that warm pads can easily be obtained with analog (or partly-analog) synths. This "warmness" is probably due to a number of factors, such as slight changes in oscillator tuning, non-linearities in the filter's response, analog noise and distortion, etc, and it is very hard to reproduce with a purely digital synth. I'm not starting a debate, just pointing out differences in character.

Also, this is not to say that digital synths can't make good pads... there are some excellent digital pad machines: Korg Wavestation, Waldorf XT, Rapture.... but they certainly have their own character, which IMO is very different from a typical analog polysynth.

I just wish I could have them all.

Spent an hour on this last night, and yes, this is the type of sound I've been trying to figure out -- thanks very much!

I have a few follow-up questions, though, about "tuning" the sound:

ORIGINAL: kwgm
I don't know the Enterprise theme, but warm pads are usually made with saws. Try a two elements pad and load saws in each. Tune them unison with a slight difference in pitch -- +2 cents up on one, -2 cents down on the other -- hear the beat? That's "poor mans' chorus".

Now, apply 2 pole low pass filters to both, give them both 10% resonance, and tune down the cutoff to somewhere between 500 and 1000 hz. Is this sound you want?

Yes, very much! I'm having some great results playing with a few of the Galbanum waveforms.

One thing I'm not grasping is how I can eliminate or hide the "buzz" (overtone?). For example, if in the C3 octave, I play a third-inversion D major triad (D-A-F#), dropping the D an octave, there will be a slow-cycling "bzzt" in the lower frequencies. I've tried shifting the filter bandwidth, and even played with EQ, but haven't discovered where this lies.

You can also change the filters to 2-pole bandpass, and tune in the frequencies you like. With a bandpass filter, as you open the resonance, you open the bandwidth and allow more of the sound through. But be careful with resonance -- if you take it above 50%, you can create an unstable self-oscillating situation that will kick you in the ears. This sound is useful for cutting leads, but not warm pads.

I can find resonance scaled in dB, but not percent -- how do I make the conversion?

Thanks again -- I've gotten further with this in a couple hours than the last few months.

Russ

ORIGINAL: fac

ORIGINAL: Russell.Whaley
One thing I'm not grasping is how I can eliminate or hide the "buzz" (overtone?). For example, if in the C3 octave, I play a third-inversion D major triad (D-A-F#), dropping the D an octave, there will be a slow-cycling "bzzt" in the lower frequencies. I've tried shifting the filter bandwidth, and even played with EQ, but haven't discovered where this lies.

You may try playing with the keyboard-to-cutoff parameters, so that for lower notes, the filter closes a bit more, and for higher notes, the filter opens.

What synth you said you were using?

I'm using Rapture, and the Cakewalk version of the Galbanum Architecture Waveforms package. Can I do this with the envelope generator(s), or is this constructed with something else?

Thanks again.

Russ

ORIGINAL: Russell.Whaley

Spent an hour on this last night, and yes, this is the type of sound I've been trying to figure out -- thanks very much!

I have a few follow-up questions, though, about "tuning" the sound:

ORIGINAL: kwgm
I don't know the Enterprise theme, but warm pads are usually made with saws. Try a two elements pad and load saws in each. Tune them unison with a slight difference in pitch -- +2 cents up on one, -2 cents down on the other -- hear the beat? That's "poor mans' chorus".

Now, apply 2 pole low pass filters to both, give them both 10% resonance, and tune down the cutoff to somewhere between 500 and 1000 hz. Is this sound you want?

Yes, very much! I'm having some great results playing with a few of the Galbanum waveforms.

One thing I'm not grasping is how I can eliminate or hide the "buzz" (overtone?). For example, if in the C3 octave, I play a third-inversion D major triad (D-A-F#), dropping the D an octave, there will be a slow-cycling "bzzt" in the lower frequencies. I've tried shifting the filter bandwidth, and even played with EQ, but haven't discovered where this lies.

You can also change the filters to 2-pole bandpass, and tune in the frequencies you like. With a bandpass filter, as you open the resonance, you open the bandwidth and allow more of the sound through. But be careful with resonance -- if you take it above 50%, you can create an unstable self-oscillating situation that will kick you in the ears. This sound is useful for cutting leads, but not warm pads.

I can find resonance scaled in dB, but not percent -- how do I make the conversion?

Thanks again -- I've gotten further with this in a couple hours than the last few months.

Russ

Hi Russ,

Glad you're having fun.... Some of those Galbanum waves have odd harmonics -- you may be getting an artifact. Try the Saw8080 waveform -- it's a nice saw.

It may also simply be what's called a 'beat' from two voices that are very close, but slightly out of tune. You get the same affect on a piano, which is how tuners get the unisons right.

Also, there's a great tool available at www.voxengo.com called SPAN, in the free download section. Get it, load it into your VST folder, and add it to the effects box of Rapture's synth track, and you may be able to see what frequency is bothering you in your pad.

As for resonance, 10% is an estimate, meaning, "opening it up a little, but not a lot. "

When you just start learning how to program, it's often good to keep your environment controlled, and make small changes so that you understand what's happening. Start with simple waveforms, like the Saw8080 sample file. Then make your changes one at a time, so you'll know how each parameter affects the sound. Try to visualize what you're doing when you modify an envelope, or apply a filter. Sound programming is work for the ears, certainly, but is easier to manage when you understand how the various dsp components effect the waveforms.

Have fun.

I probably will pick up the Anderton Moog pack one day, but the budget has some other priorities right now

This has been a great and enjoyable experience -- I finally "found" the pad sound I've been looking for, for about a year. Amazing how knowing even a small amount about waveforms and filters makes it moderately easy (at least for me).

Thanks, folks - much, much appreciated! (Probably back again -- I'm trying to learn by duplicating things I've heard and liked).

Russ

try the free 2 voice H.G. Fortune synths and set the filter cutoffs at around 4khz with a decent resonance and no osc transposition. Always works for me...