Beepster
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Warning for Sonar users with Focusrite VRM Boxes. Disconnect the Box when not needed.
I picked up a VRM Box in the summer and it is really an awesome little tool. However I have noticed that it can cause some oddities to occur on my system when it is connected. Nothing TOO major but enough that I'm getting into the habit of disconnecting the USB cable before I boot up my DAW if I don't intend to do any monitoring through the box.
First off I use the VRM Box connected VIA SPDIF to my Focusrite Scarlett 18i6. I am not using it as a standalone interface on my main rig and I am not trying to run both interfaces as separate devices using WDM or whatever mode allows that. The 18i6 is my main interface and I always use ASIO.
A few things I've noticed are that when I'm booting up Windows with the box connected via USB (again remember I'm using it via SPDIF but it requires the USB to get power) that the boot takes longer. Windows will start up normally then it's like the computer does a little mini shut down so that my monitor no longer gets a signal for anywhere from 2-20 seconds. It's a little weird. It does eventually boot up normally and nothing strange seems to for the rest of the boot up/login. I think the system does this anyway when booting but it happens so quickly it is unnoticeable. With the box connected it is.
The other thing is I think it confuses Sonar a little bit when I'm doing complex, resource intensive tasks. I notice more little quirks while editing and doing stuff in general within X3 which for the most part has been extremely solid for me.
So I don't know for sure what's going on or if this is a common issue but I thought I would post a warning to say if you have one of these devices and are noticing little quirks then try disconnecting the USB cable before boot up if you don't intend to use it during that session. It's really only for mixing anyway so there is no need to have it hooked up while tracking, editing, etc. While mixing though it seems to be fine and honestly mixing is the one thing in Sonar that has rarely, if ever, caused me any grief. My quirks usually occur during editing tasks (and as I said most of that has disappated since X3).
Cheers.
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Greeny
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Re: Warning for Sonar users with Focusrite VRM Boxes. Disconnect the Box when not needed.
2015/01/18 12:33:27
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I find disabling system sounds and making sure the VRM box is not the default audio device for windows helps. But I have a similar setup, different main card but feeding the vrm by spdif also, If I have sonar (or any other daw for that matter) open then I play audio in any other app I get silence from the VRM when I go back to the DAW then need to unplug and replug to get it back. This isn't an isolated issue I have two friends who have the exact same issues. It is a VRM thing not a sonar thing. The other guys I know who have it only use fl studio. I dunno about the other issues you have since the issue I described is the only issue I have ever had with it. EDIT: FWIW I have the same issue with ableton live 9 suite, Ohm Studio & cubase element 7 and the card I feed the spdif from is an maudio delta 66
post edited by Greeny - 2015/01/18 12:41:16
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Grumbleweed_
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Re: Warning for Sonar users with Focusrite VRM Boxes. Disconnect the Box when not needed.
2015/01/18 12:37:10
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I used it to mix a complex track in Sonar and when I opened the project the next day most of my ProChannel devices had reset to the default settings. I posted about it on this here forum at the time as it was very freaky.
The box is clever (the Rokit 6 setting sounds like my Rokit 6s!) but I can live without the side effects.
Grum.
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Beepster
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Re: Warning for Sonar users with Focusrite VRM Boxes. Disconnect the Box when not needed.
2015/01/18 12:44:55
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Greeny
I find disabling system sounds and making sure the VRM box is not the default audio device for windows helps. But I have a similar setup, different main card but feeding the vrm by spdif also, If I have sonar (or any other daw for that matter) open then I play audio in any other app I get silence from the VRM when I go back to the DAW then need to unplug and replug to get it back. This isn't an isolated issue I have two friends who have the exact same issues. It is a VRM thing not a sonar thing. The other guys I know who have it only use fl studio. I dunno about the other issues you have since the issue I described is the only issue I have ever had with it.
Yeah, what you are describing is Windows (or more accurately the media player you are using) taking over the interface's ASIO driver and not releasing it when you switch back to Sonar. I think if you close the offending program and close/reopen Sonar Sonar will reconnect to the interface. This happens sometimes even with full on fancy pants interfaces because ASIO can only do one thing at once (as far as I know so I don't try to force it nor do I really need to). I personally have the Scarlett set as my default audio device in Windows. If I want to use the onboard sound I just switch to it in the control panel but I never do. Most people don't do things this way (they want both) and it isn't necessary but it works for me and I know that the Scarlett is ALWAYS in charge unless I tell it not to be. I'm still a little sketchy on how all that works though so don't take my word as gospel for that.
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Beepster
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Re: Warning for Sonar users with Focusrite VRM Boxes. Disconnect the Box when not needed.
2015/01/18 12:47:09
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grumbleweed4162
I used it to mix a complex track in Sonar and when I opened the project the next day most of my ProChannel devices had reset to the default settings. I posted about it on this here forum at the time as it was very freaky.
The box is clever (the Rokit 6 setting sounds like my Rokit 6s!) but I can live without the side effects.
Grum.
Really? That's a little nuts. I hope you contacted Focusrite about it. I'll keep an eye out for that behavior but I've never read of anyone else experiencing that. Are you running the VRM as a standalone interface or VIA SPDIF? Edit: BTW... Focusrite support is REALLY good. I sent them an email once and they got back to me within 24 hours. Also they've even popped into threads here on the forum I posted when I was first getting started. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they show up in this one actually. I'm not having any real problems though. Just thought it might help some folks avoid a bit of quirkiness in their projects.
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Greeny
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Re: Warning for Sonar users with Focusrite VRM Boxes. Disconnect the Box when not needed.
2015/01/18 12:49:52
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I am also fairly sure thats what is happening beepster, I have mine setup the same btw, the maudio is the boss at all times I have the onboard disabled in bios. I don't really find it a big enough issue to lose sleep over since if I am working in a daw I rarely feel the need to play audio anywhere else, its at least nice that I can just uplug the vrm and plug it back in and it works again on the odd occasion that I need to.
I wonder if allowing the drivers to be shared with other programs via the preferences in sonar would stop it happening but meh I am rambling now, was just adding my 2pence worth :)
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fireberd
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Re: Warning for Sonar users with Focusrite VRM Boxes. Disconnect the Box when not needed.
2015/01/18 12:51:51
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I've disconnected mine. Its now "in a drawer" collecting dust. I didn't really find much use for it.
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Beepster
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Re: Warning for Sonar users with Focusrite VRM Boxes. Disconnect the Box when not needed.
2015/01/18 12:54:21
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Greeny
I am also fairly sure thats what is happening beepster, I have mine setup the same btw, the maudio is the boss at all times I have the onboard disabled in bios. I don't really find it a big enough issue to lose sleep over since if I am working in a daw I rarely feel the need to play audio anywhere else, its at least nice that I can just uplug the vrm and plug it back in and it works again on the odd occasion that I need to.
I wonder if allowing the drivers to be shared with other programs via the preferences in sonar would stop it happening but meh I am rambling now, was just adding my 2pence worth :)
I think I may have set the "Share with other programs" thing activated and it was mentioned in one of my very early derp n00b threads a few years back. I haven't fiddled with that stuff since then though. I got it all set up initially and haven't had to screw with it since. It all works and was very simple. The Scarlett is an AWESOME interface.
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Beepster
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Re: Warning for Sonar users with Focusrite VRM Boxes. Disconnect the Box when not needed.
2015/01/18 12:57:43
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fireberd
I've disconnected mine. Its now "in a drawer" collecting dust. I didn't really find much use for it.
I've always gotten the impression you are really good at what you do though and have a decent set up. I'm still a squealing babe in the woods for the most part and my room sucks so I figure it'll help me get my mixes dialed in better than they have been. Also due to poor soundproofing I mostly have to mix through headphones which is obviously not ideal. I haven't really put it to the test though because I've only had it for a little while. Cheers.
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Greeny
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Re: Warning for Sonar users with Focusrite VRM Boxes. Disconnect the Box when not needed.
2015/01/18 12:57:58
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Beepster
Greeny
I am also fairly sure thats what is happening beepster, I have mine setup the same btw, the maudio is the boss at all times I have the onboard disabled in bios. I don't really find it a big enough issue to lose sleep over since if I am working in a daw I rarely feel the need to play audio anywhere else, its at least nice that I can just uplug the vrm and plug it back in and it works again on the odd occasion that I need to.
I wonder if allowing the drivers to be shared with other programs via the preferences in sonar would stop it happening but meh I am rambling now, was just adding my 2pence worth :)
I think I may have set the "Share with other programs" thing activated and it was mentioned in one of my very early derp n00b threads a few years back. I haven't fiddled with that stuff since then though. I got it all set up initially and haven't had to screw with it since. It all works and was very simple. The Scarlett is an AWESOME interface.
Yeah I believe so, I was just about to get one when I saw a used maudio delta66 with the omni I/O breakout box on ebbay and took a punt for a whopping £36! the thing cost £500 when they were new :D Turns out even 15 years later its a hell of a combo for an home setup :D
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Beepster
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Re: Warning for Sonar users with Focusrite VRM Boxes. Disconnect the Box when not needed.
2015/01/18 13:09:54
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Greeny
I think I may have set the "Share with other programs" thing activated and it was mentioned in one of my very early derp n00b threads a few years back. I haven't fiddled with that stuff since then though. I got it all set up initially and haven't had to screw with it since. It all works and was very simple. The Scarlett is an AWESOME interface.
Yeah I believe so, I was just about to get one when I saw a used maudio delta66 with the omni I/O breakout box on ebbay and took a punt for a whopping £36! the thing cost £500 when they were new :D Turns out even 15 years later its a hell of a combo for an home setup :D
Yeah, based on my "research" the old PCI stuff is still up to the task and I actually own an Echo Layla 3G PCI card + Breakout box from my old system. When I built my new computer I intended to use it and made sure I had the legacy PCI slots on the motherboard I got but I didn't know what I was doing. Apparently those legacy PCI slots are now "bridged" as opposed to "native" (meaning instead of having direct data throughput to the CPU and other crap on the MOBO it goes through a "bridge" which is fine for most stuff but for intense streaming crap like audio and video it can cause issues) and once I tried to run everything I was getting dropouts, crackles and all sorts of other annoying crap. The forum dudes (especially John and chuckebaby) helped get my head straight on that stuff and I snagged the Scarlett. I haven't looked back since BUT I did actually get the Layla working properly by fiddling with my buffers a bit. I like the Pre's on the Scarlett better though anyway and it is easier to use so I just tossed the Layla back on my old system to retrieve old files and stuff. The nice thing though is because the 18i6 has an optical in I could, in theory, just hook the breakout box from the Layla up to the Scarlett and get an extra 4 inputs at 96khz or and extra 8 inputs at 48khz. Pretty sweet. I do wish the Scarlett had an ADAT out though because then I use the Layla to do crazy total i/o throughput on individual tracks like I used to on my old rig and/or make elaborate hardware inserts and stuff like that. The Scarlett is rather limited in the output department.
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Greeny
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Re: Warning for Sonar users with Focusrite VRM Boxes. Disconnect the Box when not needed.
2015/01/18 13:14:57
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I guess alot of the pci bridging stuff is mobo dependant, I know the legacy ports are bridged on my system but I can only speak from my own experience, dropped the delta into the first pci slot that came to hand, set the samplerate to highest, the buffers to lowest and never had an issue! My MOBO is a pretty expensive asus one though, no idea if it makes a difference.
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Beepster
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Re: Warning for Sonar users with Focusrite VRM Boxes. Disconnect the Box when not needed.
2015/01/18 13:19:00
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Greeny
I guess alot of the pci bridging stuff is mobo dependant, I know the legacy ports are bridged on my system but I can only speak from my own experience, dropped the delta into the first pci slot that came to hand, set the samplerate to highest, the buffers to lowest and never had an issue! My MOBO is a pretty expensive asus one though, no idea if it makes a difference.
I really didn't mess with it for very long. I'm sure if I did I could get the Layla working well but I can't be bothered because it is unnecessary at this point. However I think those old Deltas are/were actually a little more stable in general. There are quite a few people around here still using the Layla successfully (and the Deltas). The Scarlett is just convenient and works very well on my rig. Oh and I'm on a fancy ASUS board too. I always forget the exact model but it was one of the nicer ones. PZ something or other. Lots of connection possibilities.
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Grumbleweed_
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Re: Warning for Sonar users with Focusrite VRM Boxes. Disconnect the Box when not needed.
2015/01/18 13:24:20
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Beepster
grumbleweed4162
I used it to mix a complex track in Sonar and when I opened the project the next day most of my ProChannel devices had reset to the default settings. I posted about it on this here forum at the time as it was very freaky.
The box is clever (the Rokit 6 setting sounds like my Rokit 6s!) but I can live without the side effects.
Grum.
Really? That's a little nuts. I hope you contacted Focusrite about it. I'll keep an eye out for that behavior but I've never read of anyone else experiencing that. Are you running the VRM as a standalone interface or VIA SPDIF?
Edit: BTW... Focusrite support is REALLY good. I sent them an email once and they got back to me within 24 hours. Also they've even popped into threads here on the forum I posted when I was first getting started. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they show up in this one actually. I'm not having any real problems though. Just thought it might help some folks avoid a bit of quirkiness in their projects.
As the problem was in Sonar I figured it was Sonar but the project was fine afterwards when I didn't use the box. The box is connected via SPDIF. By strange coincidence I booted it up yesterday to show a buddy and it (re-)installed its driver before working. Not quite sure why it did that either! Bottom line is it didn't cost me anything so it can sit on my desk looking interesting rather than being used. Grum.
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Beepster
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Re: Warning for Sonar users with Focusrite VRM Boxes. Disconnect the Box when not needed.
2015/01/18 13:37:27
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grumbleweed4162
As the problem was in Sonar I figured it was Sonar but the project was fine afterwards when I didn't use the box. The box is connected via SPDIF. By strange coincidence I booted it up yesterday to show a buddy and it (re-)installed its driver before working. Not quite sure why it did that either!
Bottom line is it didn't cost me anything so it can sit on my desk looking interesting rather than being used.
Grum.
Yanno... I have seen a lot of complaints about the earlier drivers (which seems to happen quite a bit with FR products upon first release but they are quick to fix it). Are you on the latest drivers?
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JonD
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Re: Warning for Sonar users with Focusrite VRM Boxes. Disconnect the Box when not needed.
2015/01/18 14:07:41
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fireberd
I've disconnected mine. Its now "in a drawer" collecting dust. I didn't really find much use for it.
The opposite for me -- I find it indispensable for checking reference mixes. In fact, when I learned the VRM was being discontinued last year, I bought another one. BTW, I'm not seeing any quirks here, on Win 8.1, VRM connected via spdif to a Steinberg UR28M.
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