fooman
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Waves' InPhase experiences
Hey guys! I recently started to become more coherent of phase issues and focusing moreso on phase relations of multi-miced instruments I record on a regular basis. What really brought this on was bringing up a few mixes by guys like CLA and whatnot and seeing that their phase-correlation is almost always 100% +1. I am always in the + side, but I'm trying to learn how to get my mixes to be THAT in phase! Seems impossible with so much going on at once! I bought the UAD IBP, but I don't find that it really works much better than the simple phase-reverse button Sonar (thankfully) offers us. I came across the Waves InPhase plugin and see that it has a LOT to offer when it comes to phase-relationships. Does anyone here have experiences they can share with this? Is it worth the time to learn it? What do you use it on most-often?
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Waves' InPhase experiences
2014/01/15 16:57:27
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I haven't used it but it's on sale this month so I was also thinking of it. Interested in opinions.
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brconflict
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Re: Waves' InPhase experiences
2014/01/15 17:45:26
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Same here. I know you can obviously slip your clips to be more Phase-aligned, but having a tool that can allow you to adjust phase while listening would be worth a few $. I may grab one (we'll see).
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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Jimbo21
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Re: Waves' InPhase experiences
2014/01/15 17:48:25
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I wonder if it's any better than the Voxengo phase align plug?
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bitflipper
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Re: Waves' InPhase experiences
2014/01/15 23:39:27
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Jimbo21 I wonder if it's any better than the Voxengo phase align plug?
 It costs more, so it must be better! And it must be a WHOLE lot better than the Sonitus Phase or Channel Tools plugins, 'cause those cost nothing at all.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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fooman
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Re: Waves' InPhase experiences
2014/01/16 00:08:22
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I get ur point sir, but for real this is why I'm asking haha I'd rather not spend $100 if the gains are pointless, but as I said I own the SPL IBP, and I find it barely ever helps moreso than a simple phase flip. Also, Channel Tools has phase manipulation? I've never even thought of using it for that :/ But the vids Waves did are pretty impressive with the product.
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John
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Re: Waves' InPhase experiences
2014/01/16 01:02:04
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Having total ignorance about Waves I can still say they are excellent at marketing. They are the "Apple" of plugins.
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fooman
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Re: Waves' InPhase experiences
2014/01/16 09:07:37
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High quality, no $1k dongle, and insane sales all the time. Finding it harder and harder to spend my UAD vouchers. Anywho, we digress.
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bitflipper
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Re: Waves' InPhase experiences
2014/01/16 10:07:31
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Actually, it's not a digression. It's relevant to the discussion. Of course you don't want to spend $100 unnecessarily, but Waves is going to do everything they can to convince you otherwise. They are indeed very good at marketing. The Apple analogy's not wrong, but I'd call them the Monster Cable of plugins: product quality is generally good, but there are plenty of less-expensive but functionally equivalent alternatives. And although Waves has done away with the iLok requirement, they still employ an obtuse and fragile copy-protection scheme that's prone to failure. None of this negates your initial concern about the importance of phase alignment. Any time two or more microphones are picking up the same instrument, taking phase into account is essential to capturing a full sound. But there's more than one way to accomplish that. Think about it: how did Andy Johns pull off some of the greatest rock 'n roll drum recordings of all time - without digital signal processing?
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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John
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Re: Waves' InPhase experiences
2014/01/16 10:30:21
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Dave I knew you would get the meaning of my pronouncement Monster Cable indeed. Much better, except Apple is more insidious.
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fooman
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Re: Waves' InPhase experiences
2014/01/16 10:35:49
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I'm not willing to get into the modern vs classic recording debate. There are new tools, and I'm curious about one of them. I just want to know if anyone here has any experiences with it they'd like to share. If you don't like Waves or Monster, start a thread! :)
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John T
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Re: Waves' InPhase experiences
2014/01/16 10:46:36
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There's really no such thing as 100% phase alignment on multi-mic'd sources. Say you've got a drum kit with an XY overhead pair and some spot mics. In a typical setup, the snare transient will hit the snare mic before it hits the overheads, and bingo, you have non-alignment. You could decide to slide the snare to co-incide with the snare transients on the overheads, or vice versa, but then some other element will be non-aligned. Better than thinking about "correct", IMO, is thinking about "good". You will have non-alignments, and some of them will create horrible cancellation, some of them will be unnoticeable, and occasionally, some of them will be kind of cool. And this stuff is all best solved with your mic placement, I reckon.
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bz2838
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Re: Waves' InPhase experiences
2014/01/16 10:57:19
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bitflipper Actually, it's not a digression. It's relevant to the discussion. Of course you don't want to spend $100 unnecessarily, but Waves is going to do everything they can to convince you otherwise. They are indeed very good at marketing. The Apple analogy's not wrong, but I'd call them the Monster Cable of plugins: product quality is generally good, but there are plenty of less-expensive but functionally equivalent alternatives. And although Waves has done away with the iLok requirement, they still employ an obtuse and fragile copy-protection scheme that's prone to failure. None of this negates your initial concern about the importance of phase alignment. Any time two or more microphones are picking up the same instrument, taking phase into account is essential to capturing a full sound. But there's more than one way to accomplish that. Think about it: how did Andy Johns pull off some of the greatest rock 'n roll drum recordings of all time - without digital signal processing?
I use waves a lot, I have no problems with their license protection "scheme", in fact you can store your license on your computer, use iLok, or any usb dongle. I find most of their plugs to do an outstanding job, maybe that's the reason they are used on so many Hit Records......
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fooman
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Re: Waves' InPhase experiences
2014/01/16 10:57:29
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100%. Unless you're mixing material you haven't recorded.
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