Waves Shells Plug-Ins not working in Sonar 8.5

Any way I could get some help on getting the Waves Platinum Native Bundle of Plug-ins to work inside of Sonar 8.5?  Any help would be appreciated.
 
I am one of the unfortunate people who actually got suckered into paying the $1800 for the Waves Platinum Native bundle of plug-ins (along with the $170 per year for support), thinking that they must be that much better.  Well, they are pretty good, but not that much better than the free Plug-ins offered by Cakewalk, Sony and a couple other publishers. 
 
Well, apparently Waves did not put my $170 annual support fees to use and just took the money.  They are really upset about all the pirating of their goodies, so they take it out on the paid iLok Users like me by charging high prices and providing below market support for the products - other than new methods of copy protection.  If they wanted to be a copy and security company, then they should have just gone and done that and left the sound processing to the musicians. 
 
Regardless, they were not able to pull off what the FREE plug-ins do, and that is to actually work with Sonar 8.5.  The Plug-in Manager for Sonar 8.5 (and maybe earlier versions) cannot locate the Waves Shells .dll file in the Plug-in folder.  None of the Waves Plug-ins work consequently with Sonar 8.5
 
Now I have read the forums, in part and...
 
1.  The Options/Global X-ray On and Off change does not fix this.
2.  Rescanning the Plug-ins does not fix this.
3.  De-installing Internet Explorer 8 does not fix this.
4.  Closing the Plug-in GUI Box and then reopening the same Plug-in does not make them work.
5.  I have a DELL x7, but the Waves Platinum Plug-ins work fine with SoundForge 9.0 so it is not an i-thread processor 45nm processor issue.
6.  I have the latest Waves V6 Platinum 6.0.7 Bundle update.
 
For those who want to go down those roads, thanks for the help, but these things do not fix this. 
 
So, my long winded diatribe on requesting help so that I do not feel that I threw $2,100 out the window with Waves....
 
TS

Need more info... XP or Vista?  32 or 64 bit?

There is a utility out there that extracts shelled plug-ins from the shell and puts nice individual .dlls in your vst folder for each plug in the shell.

I found it in a thread here about waves ssl stuff not showing the gui when turning off x-ray did not help.

It worked a treat, but I can't find it right now for you and I need to get ready for work.

Thaaaat's the one! Shell VST 2.0

Hey gents, pardon my upset over this $2,300 WAVES ripoff...  (Oh, and there 'are no refunds')

Sadly, I downloaded the Shell VST 2.0 program and it does not recognize the Waves Shells-VST 6.0.7 nor does it recongnize the .dll standard which Waves has apparently used with their new release.  Neither does Sonar.

I do not think that it is Sonar 8.5 becuase every other   VST.dll file I have which worked with earlier verison of Sonar, all work fine with S 8.5

I even copied the .dll files out of the Waves VST directory and pasted them into the working .dll directory where all my FUNCTIONAL and CHEAPER VST Plug-ins are doing FINE.  And the cheap plug-ins pulled off compatibility with Sonar - without having to charge $170 a year in support fees.

Waves retorts that they "have not tested Waves products with Windows Vista Home."  Geez, how long has Vista been out now????  5 years??  Windows 7.0 comes out in 30 days.  This is HORRIBLE ethics.

Well save the money on testing Waves, the users have already done it for you, at much greater expense than you would have ...and here is the conclusion:

WAVE DOES NOT WORK WITH SONAR 8 IN VISTA..

But I tell you what WAVES..............

1)  Your complex iLok security sure darm well works....
2)  Your credit card charge function sure darm well works
3)  Your, "make sure they have paid before they get tech support," function works great...
4)  The overly complex download and upackage V6 Whizzamabang downloader sure works.....
5)  The promotional pushes to BUY BUY BUY on your website....to UPGRADE...before you hear anything about how to actually use the software....all that stuff works...

All of that is MUCH more complicated than managing a tiny .dll file for Sonar. 

But you just were not too interested in actually getting the product to work.  That small task which all the Freeware companies managed to pull off just fine.......it was just too daunting a challenge for everyone there at WAVES???.....did not light any fires of interest - actually making the product work?????

I guess $2,300  was just not enough.   Not enough to get you out of the chair to actually TEST the main thing you were SUPPOSED to be doing in the first place...

 

TStranger,
 
I know exactly what you are talking about. I had to sell my waves platinum a few weeks ago. Even selling Waves was a nightmare.
 
I now use Universal Audio's Solo Laptop pluggins. They blow Waves away as far as sound quality is concerned. I wouldn't be surprised if Waves is out of business soon.
 
The reason I got rid of my waves is exclusively due to the 64bit issue.
 
I even read on a recent blog on Eric Kramers recent complaint about Waves. Even though he got Mercury for free. It's a shame that they force you to buy a pluggin for $170 every year. 
 
I really believe that the number of complaints forced them to close their forum.  There were some STRONG STRONG messages of hatred on their forum about their products.
 
To me..... Waves should be reduced to shareware. 

gtgarner

I now use Universal Audio's Solo Laptop pluggins. They blow Waves away as far as sound quality is concerned. I wouldn't be surprised if Waves is out of business soon. 
 

Universal Audio's Solo Laptop pluggins

 
Thanks GT!!!  I will go check them out now.
 
TS

dontletmedrown


That's a bummer that you're having problems.  I hope you get everything figured out.  I have a buddy that uses Waves Plugins just fine on 8.3, so I'm sure it will get sorted soon. 

I must be crazy, but I'm one of the few that actually think waves plug-ins are a good value.  For the price of 1 killer rackmount FX unit, you can get a decent sized plug-in bundle that has arguably everything you'd need to record an album.  I don't think Waves is trying to be the Wal-Mart of audio plug-ins, if you know what I mean.

+1 Dave. I have the Mercury bundle here and love them. No issues using them on XP or Vista using any version of Sonar. When I get the GUI thing, I just close the plug and reopen it and it's fine. Sorry you're having problems TS.

dontletmedrown


That's a bummer that you're having problems.  I hope you get everything figured out.  I have a buddy that uses Waves Plugins just fine on 8.3, so I'm sure it will get sorted soon. 

I must be crazy, but I'm one of the few that actually think waves plug-ins are a good value.  For the price of 1 killer rackmount FX unit, you can get a decent sized plug-in bundle that has arguably everything you'd need to record an album.  I don't think Waves is trying to be the Wal-Mart of audio plug-ins, if you know what I mean.

I agree. I use Waves plugins every day on all our products. The only other "go-to" plugins I reach for (in Sonar) are the Sonitus delay, Sonitus Gate with SC and PSP vintage meters.
But the company sucks.
Fact.
 We used the subscription service for the first year then dumped it. The last time I looked at their forum, it was mostly angry customers and spam.
We have debated getting some of the new plugins/collections, but...meh! Too many bad memories. "Once bitten twice shy".
The product is fantastic IMO. The company not so much.
 
I haven't purchased the latest Sonar patch and threads like this make me nervous.
But then again we've personally had some issues with the Sonar online sales/support crew as well over the years.

Danny Danzi

dontletmedrown


That's a bummer that you're having problems.  I hope you get everything figured out.  I have a buddy that uses Waves Plugins just fine on 8.3, so I'm sure it will get sorted soon. 

I must be crazy, but I'm one of the few that actually think waves plug-ins are a good value.  For the price of 1 killer rackmount FX unit, you can get a decent sized plug-in bundle that has arguably everything you'd need to record an album.  I don't think Waves is trying to be the Wal-Mart of audio plug-ins, if you know what I mean.

+1 Dave. I have the Mercury bundle here and love them. No issues using them on XP or Vista using any version of Sonar. When I get the GUI thing, I just close the plug and reopen it and it's fine. Sorry you're having problems TS.

Are you running 32 bit, Sonar 8.5 and the latest version of Waves 6?  Just curious.  

Add me as +1 for the Waves plugs (Diamond Bundle).  I use them regularly and can't do without them for some projects especially the L1/L2 and C4.  I also have most of the UAD plugs and find they're great too but for different applications, both have their strong points and are great plugins IMO.

As far as running Waves on Vista TStranger I'm not sure because I'm still on XP X64 until I go to Win 7 (where I may get some surprises)....but that's a bridge I'll have cross when I get to it.  Hope you can find a fix.

Cheers, Max.

bitman


There is a utility out there that extracts shelled plug-ins from the shell and puts nice individual .dlls in your vst folder for each plug in the shell.

I found it in a thread here about waves ssl stuff not showing the gui when turning off x-ray did not help.

It worked a treat, but I can't find it right now for you and I need to get ready for work.

Try the utility shell2vst.exe

Guitarmech111

When you say the WAVES plugs do not work, what are you seeing or not seeing that indicates they are not working?
 
I have all of the waves plugs and SONAR 8.5 ruinning w/o any issues with XP SP2 32-bit.
 
I would download the latest installer and try it again. Make sure you scan the waves plugins and also make sure all of the WaveShell.DLLs are current.
 
Reset all of your plugs, then rescan VSTs.
 
This is all of course if you are NOT 64-bit. I don't believe Waves V6 supports 64-bit applications.
 

Will do GuitarMech.  Thanks.  Now by '64 bit', do you mean Sonar x64 or a 64 bit machine?, because I am operating on a 64 bit machine, but running Sonar 32 bit so I can use Reason 4.0.  But the Waves Plug-ins work fine with SoundForge 9.0....just not with Sonar.  But I cannot get Waves Support to acknowledge key information like this.  The support guy is just cutting and pasting FAQ answers and fiddling with his iPod.

emwhy


FYI guys I've run the Waves Renaissance bundle (3.5...yeah it's old) in XP 32, Vista 32 & 64, and Win7 64 using 8.3.1 and 8.5.1 in 64 bit mode. Use the above mentioned utility ( shell2vst.exe) that will wrap the dxs as vsts, and rescan. You should be all set. Just pay close attention to where the "new" .dlls install. Also be careful as to how you use shellvst2, the instructions are a little vague and if not done right will cause you problems.

Good stuff emwhy.  I made sure that the .dll's are all installed in the correct 'look to' directory in Sonar.  And I tried to convert the shells into direct VST's with VST 2.0   (shell2vst.exe), but the VST 2.0 program said that the shell files were not recognizable as VST plug-in shells and could not be converted.

The part that makes me suspicious is that normal windows functions, don't work inside the Waves directories.  When I double click on c:\program files ....\waves\  inside windows explorer, it jumps me to a completely different directory than the waves directory.  Most often into a photos directory or maybe some random directory on my computer...and will not let me enter the Waves Directory.  The same for the copy I placed into the \VST Plugins\ directory.

I think the problem lies with the V6 installer and is not an OS compatibility issue.  There is just not that much difference between Vista Home and Vista Business.  But I will re-set all Plug-ins again tonight and then re-scan and see how that goes.

TS

Here's the problem with that logic... there are things, from an audio production perspective, that I can only do with Waves plug-ins. I dislike the corporate culture, and do my best to feed their coffers as little as possible, but there is still no good sub for the Rennaisance EQ and Compressor, or MondoMod or MetaFlanger...

There are other great, similar plug-ins, I make heavy use of UAD, SoundToys, PSP, Kjaerhus, and Voxengo, along with some PD stuff, but sometimes you just can't replace Waves.

Too bad too, because as a company they are awful. It took me almost two years to get a reasonably priced upgrade from V3 to V4. It wasn't until I pointed out that their EULA did not say that I had to upgrade to continue to use the software, but their authorization process prevented anyone with pre V4 software from re-installing. Eventually they caved, but in fact I had given up, they contacted me as a "former disgruntled" customer - I always felt they should have reversed the two words!